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Thread: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

  1. #1
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    Angry Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Hi everyone,

    Everyone is talking about Changi Cove and everyone is showing fantastic photos with Native birds from this place and a lot are saying "go there quickly as there are going to destroy it for a new Terminal or equivalent !"

    I don t understand why this community is not putting their ressources together (aka photos) and try to do something about it ! You have thousands of photos showing what lives there and I am sure you could find a few rare species within these pictures...
    Avian Watch Asia and CS should come up with something. With the number of members (+ their friends and families, and the friens and families of their friends and families, etc) that would create a non-negligeable weight for opening discussions !

    Go to your elected person or to the ministry of environment or even the ministry of tourism as Singapore is selling itself as a Green/environment friendly Nation (or higher if some of you know the right person...) and show what is going to be destructed....
    I don t think Singapore needs a 3rd terminal... the 2 actual terminals (plus the newly opened and still empty budget terminal) are sometime a bit full but most of the time you spend less time queueing at Changi than queueing for the taxi to get out of there... (and I know what I am talking about on this part as I am there very often !)
    You guys need to wake up and do something about it... I am sure that a lot of people would be ready to help if they knew about it (even the guys from the development company..)

    I am not Singaporean and therefore I can t vote here. We are during an election time, if I am not mistaken. This is the time to go to the people for this area and bring their attention on it. The destruction of the natural inhabitat of most of this species means : death for most of them and or move to other places (and according to the size of Singapore that means overseas).

    You can do something about it ! Business is business but if the public is against your business, you will not do much business... Environmental issues are growing more and more important for corporations...
    Maybe you will not stop the development but you can bring them to find solutions for these species by capture and relocation in one of the reserve of something like this...

    Wake up before it is too late....

    Hope some people will follow-up on this as it is your Land and the Land of your kids who might prefer to go and take birds pictures with a D800
    in 10 years rather than looking at yours (which are great...).. I will be gone soon and just sad knowing that no one has try something.

    PS : If someone is aware of something being already done I think it would be good to advertise it more and request for contributions with photos !!

    Cheers

    Thomas
    Last edited by Toxicdiver; 17th April 2006 at 04:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxicdiver
    Hi everyone,

    Everyone is talking about Changi Cove and everyone is showing fantastic photos with Native birds from this place and a lot are saying "go there quickly as there are going to destroy it for a new Terminal or equivalent !"

    I don t understand why this community is not putting their ressources together (aka photos) and try to do something about it ! You have thousands of photos showing what lives there and I am sure you could find a few rare species within these pictures...
    Avian Watch Asia and CS should come up with something. With the number of members (+ their friends and families, and the friens and families of their friends and families, etc) that would create a non-negligeable weight for opening discussions !

    Go to your elected person or to the ministry of environment or even the ministry of tourism as Singapore is selling itself as a Green/environment friendly Nation (or higher if some of you know the right person...) and show what is going to be destructed....
    I don t think Singapore needs a 3rd terminal... the 2 actual terminals (plus the newly opened and still empty budget terminal) are sometime a bit full but most of the time you spend less time queueing at Changi than queueing for the taxi to get out of there... (and I know what I am talking about on this part as I am there very often !)
    You guys need to wake up and do something about it... I am sure that a lot of people would be ready to help if they knew about it (even the guys from the development company..)

    I am not Singaporean and therefore I can t vote here. We are during an election time, if I am not mistaken. This is the time to go to the people for this area and bring their attention on it. The destruction of the natural inhabitat of most of this species means : death for most of them and or move to other places (and according to the size of Singapore that means overseas).

    You can do something about it ! Business is business but if the public is against your business, you will not do much business... Environmental issues are growing more and more important for corporations...
    Maybe you will not stop the development but you can bring them to find solutions for these species by capture and relocation in one of the reserve of something like this...

    Wake up before it is too late....:wahpiang:

    Hope some people will follow-up on this as it is your Land and the Land of your kids who might prefer to go and take birds pictures with a D800
    in 10 years rather than looking at yours (which are great...).. I will be gone soon and just sad knowing that no one has try something.

    PS : If someone is aware of something being already done I think it would be good to advertise it more and request for contributions with photos !!

    Cheers

    Thomas
    Very well put

    I totally agree with you aswell. Singapore does not need another terminal. Myself having been to many aiports around the world and also not being singaporean have found changi to be basically the emptiest one. There are never long ques (more than 20 mins) compared to places such as heathrow where it can take litrelly hours to get through.

    Singapore is also, as all of you know, a very small island state and can therfore not afford to be destroying its natural habitat.

    If anyone can help with this idea then you will helping to make a better singapore
    Last edited by wildstallion; 17th April 2006 at 04:30 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    the cove is being sacrificed for what will be a permanent venue for air trade shows,etc. Unfortunately, its all been said and done before and the truth is that there are many more venues like the cove that is not and should be exposed to greater publicity. We have lost many (marina anyone?) and will lose more to come but no one will do anything cos a lot just never thought about it and were more concerned in keeping their "secret" locations to themselves. Educating the public is a long and tedious process and it needs to start now, not 10days before the govt has decided to clear the area.....

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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Thanks Wildstallion and Szekiat, for your comments...
    I am suprised by the lack of answer and reactivity... People read but don t care. It is sad !
    But I beleive that they beleive they can do great bird shooting on Orchard Road or at the next Air show which will take place at Changi Cove...
    I am sure if we say that we organise a meeting there to do some shooting and counting with free drinks and a few models.. hundreds of people will react within 3 min.
    Very sad...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    the big question is, before the whole airshow business, did u know specifically where the cove is? I had to scour satellite maps and do a lot of searching to find out. Instead of talking about what is gone, how about encouraging the birding community to expose the beauty of punggol and the other "secret" areas. Its nice to say that cove is in changi, but changi is rather big. U want the lay public to be interested, then u need to give specific directions, show them, etc.... Oh well, i'm out of sg for the near future anyway.......

  6. #6

    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Before anyone jumps to anything.

    Do take note that the so called Changi Cove (or the whole stretch infact) was reclaimed long time ago with intention of development.

    As to how far the planning is... what is the average lifespan of a HDB flat?
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Quote Originally Posted by szekiat
    the big question is, before the whole airshow business, did u know specifically where the cove is?
    tink he's refering to the site for the development of the new venue to host the Singapore Air Show in the near future.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    I guess there will be nothing done again.Unless it benefits the government more than it does to us.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    To reinforce and add a little on to what Szekiat (and some others) has said -

    It is impractical to remain hopeful that whatever we do now will stop the development of the land that is known as Changi Cove. It is not that we do not care, but instead we believe that if we are to do anything at all, it should be to focus on what else is left. There are other small remaining pockets of avifaunal-rich areas in Singapore, and the birders and bird photographers will know best where they are. Time is running out for those areas; we do not know when those will disappear. Very often, photographers refuse to disclose the locations of these hotspots either simple 'cos they prefer it to be kept secret among an 'elitist' circle, or with pure intentions in mind they think that making the locations known to the public will only encourage droves of people to the area and thus disturb the birds (and impact upon the habitat, etc etc.) .

    The first step to take to conserve these ares, is generate publicity. People can't get to feel for these places, to appreciate what they are and what they offer without knowing that such places exist. We need to know what exists out there that we should protect, and it should be up to the photographers to showcase, document, and share where and what beauty remains.

    Look at Chek Jawa. Its reclamation would never have been deferred if it wasn't so aggressively publicised.
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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Quote Originally Posted by szekiat
    the big question is, before the whole airshow business, did u know specifically where the cove is? I had to scour satellite maps and do a lot of searching to find out. Instead of talking about what is gone, how about encouraging the birding community to expose the beauty of punggol and the other "secret" areas. Its nice to say that cove is in changi, but changi is rather big. U want the lay public to be interested, then u need to give specific directions, show them, etc.... Oh well, i'm out of sg for the near future anyway.......

    I am sorry to say that I have never been there... I have been told that you need a car (and preferably a 4x4) if you want to have a chance to see something.

    I took an example of Changi Cove as it is a place that a lot have heard of...even if most of us never been there.

    We are in a difficult situation as people don t want to share those places for multiple reasons: good (present a flow of careless people who will distrurb the birds for a good shot or leave rubbish) or bad (selfishness of some).
    But in any case if a building is built on the place no one will beneficiate of it (not even the people living or working in it)...

    I don t know enough Singapore rules and administration to provide solution, I just know that if everyone keep on moaning but do not do something, you will only share memories in a few years and these places will become like Atlantis, a legend...

    To come back to Changi Cove, would it be possible to set up a team to "move" as much as possible of the species living there before bulldozers flat everything. I am sure a lot will want to help but it needs to be done by professionals guiding volonteers for the handling of nets and birds, mammals, reptiles and others little things living there (it exists in Europe).. This is not too late !! Any volonteers to give a hand to find the proper organisation and then go there ?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    IMO, you cannot compare Changi Cove to Chek Jawa. CHek Jawa was an existing natural habitat created by nature not man, hence its protection is justified.

    Changi cove was created with the sole intention that it would be developed in time to come. I don't think the government will halt development there since it has already spent a huge sum of money reclaiming the land. Its unfortunate that so many bird species moved into the area while the soil is being allowed to settle.

    We live in pragmatic Singapore, so we nature-lovers have to pick our battles carefully and sensibly. And i believe campaigning for changi cove will be a lost cause.

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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    For defence of Nature, maybe you can take it up with Dr Geh Min of Nature Society (Singapore)?
    Anyway, whether an area in natural state or one of artificial human construct, Nature will reclaim whatever and wherever the hand of Man is absent. Take Cherynobl for instance; 20 years after the area has been quit due to fallout, there are reports of rarely seen species are slowly retaking the region. Or closer to home, former landfills coming alive with grasses, trees and birds. (Was Semakau such a landfill?)

    In our land-meagre Singapore, use of "waste"-land and reclaim of the coastline, though highly undesirable to nature lovers, cannot be avoided. So let's try to save whatever green we can find, support any environmental efforts and gather any photographic documentation before it's too late...
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Quote Originally Posted by szekiat
    the big question is, before the whole airshow business, did u know specifically where the cove is? I had to scour satellite maps and do a lot of searching to find out. Instead of talking about what is gone, how about encouraging the birding community to expose the beauty of punggol and the other "secret" areas. Its nice to say that cove is in changi, but changi is rather big. U want the lay public to be interested, then u need to give specific directions, show them, etc.... Oh well, i'm out of sg for the near future anyway.......
    Yes me too... I scoured Google Earth, maps, recce the area but still no luck. I have a sense of the location but can't find the access road/track to the cove. So possibly it's because there are not many people who have experienced the cove first hand. Or perhaps, for those who have experienced it, they are cognizant of the fact that this is land reclaimed for a purpose to begin with. It is not a case of sacrificing nature for progress. I don't believe the fact that no one is doing any lobbying is necessarily a result of apathy. I'm new to the birding community but judging by what I can see from AWA and CS, they are a very responsible lot. Much care is taken not to harm nesting and breeding grounds for the birds; AWA even has a code of conduct on its website. But Singaporeans are also a pragmatic lot; we do not go up in arms on the smallest issue. However, if there is good reason to act, Singaporeans have shown to be capable of voicing out their concern, and fighting for their cause. And a case in point is Chek Jawa, which also shows that the Govt does listen (I'm not brown nosing the govt but credit should be given when credit is due).

    Back to the cove, is there a cause to be fought? On the surface, probably not, as it's not destruction of nature. It's reclaimed land and just so happened it bacame a habitat for a variety of birds. But perhaps I've not seen it for myself. So I stand corrected, by those who have experienced it first hand.

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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Once again Changi Cove is an example....
    I am new here (in SGP) and did not know the full story... Happy to see that people are reacting with concerned but well thoughts comments.

    For Changi Cove "directions" simply ask the guys who are showing photos from it. PM them aske them nicely and you will get the directions... Some of them are ready to share if we ask nicely and if we accept that it does not become Disneyland !

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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxicdiver
    Once again Changi Cove is an example....
    I am new here (in SGP) and did not know the full story... Happy to see that people are reacting with concerned but well thoughts comments.

    For Changi Cove "directions" simply ask the guys who are showing photos from it. PM them aske them nicely and you will get the directions... Some of them are ready to share if we ask nicely and if we accept that it does not become Disneyland !
    Always read about the place but no idea where it located..
    I did asked a few before but no ans.
    Maybe you will be so kind to PM me?
    Thanks.

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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    i think you will find as with most sites prior (marina etc) they are "protected" sites. U will get general location but u must be within the "circle of trust" to get specifics, esp where to see certain species. Red-i, in time u will come to realise that even within major conservation and bird watching societies/clubs/organizations in singapore, there is too much internal bickering and not enough sharing. Take for example NSS currently.
    Last edited by szekiat; 19th April 2006 at 04:18 PM. Reason: to better explain what i was saying

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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    a bit OT, but let the handsome WKCHEAH be our spokesman lah!!!
    Last edited by szekiat; 18th April 2006 at 04:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    I dun mind shooting for the cause of conservation if some kind souls reveal the place to me Man has destroyed much. So must make up for it by efforts in conservation. By the way, I loved the advertisement put into SCV by oneplanet.org. but I still see shark's fin in every wedding dinner's menu

  19. #19

    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    Quote Originally Posted by szekiat
    i think you will find as with most sites prior (marina etc) they are "protected" sites. U will get general location but u must be within the "circle of trust" to get specifics, esp where to see certain species. Red-i, in time u will come to realise that even within the organizations u hold in such high esteem, there is too much internal bickering and not enough sharing. Toxic, its not that hard to get in. I first went in on foot! Long walk in, but if i can do it with a 400mm f2.8, you can do it too. More importantly, not all of the other sites are as inaccessible but where are the details?
    Yes of course no organization is perfect.... though I'm not in any inner circle and todate have no clue where the cove is I chose to look at it positively; there is possibly good reason why the location is kept within a small circle. Not a question of whether I hold any of these organizations in high esteem or not, but chose not to be too cynical about an organization that I do not know much about; but at least on the surface there seems to be effort to maintain ethical behaviour. Anyhow, live and let live. Cheers.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Singaporeans, Wake up before it is too late !

    The cove will be closed very soon. Email me for a fix up.
    "A closet Nykon lover"

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