FM2 & metering questions with DSLR

[Benji77]

Hi all

Recently I attended a short course on basic photography. In the class of nine, I was the only film, the others were DSLR's. (right, this is not the point, but crucial to the story )

(please feel free to correct me.)
In the FM2, my objective is to make the LED meter in my viewfinder go to 0 right?

In the DSLR, they get a reading of 0, but they will compensate to a +1 if they get a white flower against a green bush.

Must I do the same? Meaning I will do a +1 as well? If I do not do a +1, will I underexpose my shot?

[TMC]

dslr will compensate and darken the picture to prevent overexposure, so in their case they will +1 to compensate for the camera.

no need for film as the camera does not do that.

[harry t]

There are other factors to consider as well.

The FM2 metering is center weighed while the DSLR has options of spot, center weighed and Matrix. Say if the DSLR is at center weighed - your above is correct. Do note that film has a better latitude for exposure.

I am not sure if the exposure reading for the D70 Manual metering mode and Aperture metering mode will come up to be the same but I remember that for the D70 at Aperture mode, we usually increase the exposure compensation by +0.3/+0.7. My D50 exposure reading at both Manual metering and Aperture is the same.

[Astin]

I would think that any course on "basic photography" would teach on exposure. Isn't that the basic of ANY photography?

[Benji77]

Originally Posted by TMC dslr will compensate and darken the picture to prevent overexposure, so in their case they will +1 to compensate for the camera. no need for film as the camera does not do that.

so in the case where the DSLR compensates and darkens the picture, it is actually a -1? or does that bring it to 0? to me it means that it is brought back to 0, (which is neutral right?). this would also mean that the shot IS correctly exposed? or does it mean that the camera is actually 'acting smart' and cause the shot to be underexposed, therefore the user has to +1 to 'correct' it back to 0??

For film, so long as i meter it till i get the 0, i am right, correct?

[nightwolf75]

Originally Posted by Astin I would think that any course on "basic photography" would teach on exposure. Isn't that the basic of ANY photography?

[student]

There are some fundamentals in making an image.

One of the most important is making a correct exposure.

I agree 100% with Astin that a basic course should cover this adequately. It may not be the fault of the teachers. There are many reasons why an attendee may not understand the fundamentals of exposure.

I appears to me that you have a major problem with understanding exposure. Please go back to your instructors, and hopefully they can explain making exposures to you again.

[Astin]

The FM2 metering (ie automatic exposure) is centre weighted average metering, so if u shoot a white flower against a green (ie darken) background, the metering will average out and will suggest a aperture setting to "overexposure" the white flower and "correct exposure" for the background. U will then need to "compensate" the automatic exposure by manually over-ride to -1, so then u will "correct exposure" the white flower and "under exposure" for the background.
(It is not easy for beginner to shoot a bright subject in front of a dark background, find some subject and some background to have similar brightness to practise with.)

[Benji77]

Awww..come on.

you guys have not answered my question. for eg, pointing my lens directly at the light would give me a + sign. for me to correctly expose that shot, i would have to put it to a 0 right?

in the DSLR, it would show 0, and you would have to +1 correct?

[harry t]

Keep it simple. If the FM2 is pointed onto a grey card - the exposure setting (aperture or shutter or both) should be adjusted to '0'.

(Don't worry abt the DSLR, it should be at '0' as well).

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by Benji77 Hi all Recently I attended a short course on basic photography. In the class of nine, I was the only film, the others were DSLR's. (right, this is not the point, but crucial to the story ) (please feel free to correct me.) In the FM2, my objective is to make the LED meter in my viewfinder go to 0 right? In the DSLR, they get a reading of 0, but they will compensate to a +1 if they get a white flower against a green bush. Must I do the same? Meaning I will do a +1 as well? If I do not do a +1, will I underexpose my shot?

Really depends on what metering mode they use. Spot? Centre-weighted or matrix. If you use spot, then only the flower itself will be correctly exposed to become 18% grey, the rest will be underexposed. If centre weighted the a portion of the metering will be based on the centre and the rest from the surrounding and the average is taken. For FM2, it is a centre weight metering.

I don't see why DSLR they will need to compensate if matrix metering is used unless you're shooting against a white sky. Or if they had used spot, they should meter on something which they want to be a midtone under that same lighting condition. Same for your FM2. Why meter on the flower if you don't want the flower to be in the midtone?

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by Astin The FM2 metering (ie automatic exposure) is centre weighted average metering, so if u shoot a white flower against a green (ie darken) background, the metering will average out and will suggest a aperture setting to "overexposure" the white flower and "correct exposure" for the background. U will then need to "compensate" the automatic exposure by manually over-ride to -1, so then u will "correct exposure" the white flower and "under exposure" for the background. (It is not easy for beginner to shoot a bright subject in front of a dark background, find some subject and some background to have similar brightness to practise with.)

FM2 has no automatic exposure. You have to turn the shutter speed and aperture until you get the right combination to get 'o' instead of + or -. So if you want to compensate, you can either use the ISO dial, eg if you're using ISO 100 film and you want +1 compensation, you will need to set ISO to 50. Otherwise, you will need to get 'o' first to get the correct reading then change the shutter speed or aperture accordingly because it doesn't have a scale to show you how much over or under unless you're within half a stop of the exposure where it will show +o or o-.

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by Benji77 so in the case where the DSLR compensates and darkens the picture, it is actually a -1? or does that bring it to 0? to me it means that it is brought back to 0, (which is neutral right?). this would also mean that the shot IS correctly exposed? or does it mean that the camera is actually 'acting smart' and cause the shot to be underexposed, therefore the user has to +1 to 'correct' it back to 0?? For film, so long as i meter it till i get the 0, i am right, correct?

No. The meter is calibrated in such a way that the correct exposure will give you 18% grey whether it for film or digital. The reason the digital gives a different reading is dependent on the amount of area it takes the metering information from.

The biggest problem with reflected light meters is that you as a user has to determine what you want as a midtone, then you meter that region. With an incident light meter, you don't care because it's just measuring the amount of light that is falling on the object. If it's reflecting a lot, you will get the object brighter on the film or sensor. If it's dark, then it should turn out dark also.

Maybe you can make use of an incident light meter and compare it with the reading from the camera for several regions and see which one has a closer match to the incident light meter. Then you will know how the camera computes the exposure.

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by TMC dslr will compensate and darken the picture to prevent overexposure, so in their case they will +1 to compensate for the camera. no need for film as the camera does not do that.

A properly calibrated DSLR will not do that. Yes, maybe it will try to prevent underexposure but at the same time it will need to maximize the dynamic range. So by right, the DSLR should just let the photographer decide. Whether it's film or digital, you should be able to compare the readings with an incident light meter and see what's closest. Otherwise, ISO, aperture and shutter speed doesn't make sense anymore. It is supposed to be a standard and should be the same whether film or digital. Having said that, I'm sure there may be some DSLR which may be calibrated differently but that's another story because there are so many calibration factors in a digital workflow.

[JHRfoo]

Originally Posted by Benji77 Awww..come on. you guys have not answered my question. for eg, pointing my lens directly at the light would give me a + sign. for me to correctly expose that shot, i would have to put it to a 0 right? in the DSLR, it would show 0, and you would have to +1 correct?

I also use a FM2 for film. When I attended my basic course, I was told that is ok to overexpose by up to one stop for film. So I experimented by taking various shots at different exposures. For FM2, I took shots from "-", "- 0", "0", "0 +" and "+". I found personally that the best pictures were made when the exposure readings were "0 +" and "+".

Try and experiment for yourself and I hope you have lots of fun doing so!

[Cheesecake]

Originally Posted by JHRfoo I also use a FM2 for film. When I attended my basic course, I was told that is ok to overexpose by up to one stop for film. So I experimented by taking various shots at different exposures. For FM2, I took shots from "-", "- 0", "0", "0 +" and "+". I found personally that the best pictures were made when the exposure readings were "0 +" and "+". Try and experiment for yourself and I hope you have lots of fun doing so!

]

wow./// Films/././

its been a long time!!
anyway, for film, it's more ideal to over-expose for a better result.
if i still remember, i used to slightly under expose for slides, around 1/2 a stop(the good old days of Velvia 50!!!!) on my FM2n.


miss the ViewFinder. and the winding action...
other than that, i follow KRW's recommendation.

[espn]

Originally Posted by Astin I would think that any course on "basic photography" would teach on exposure. Isn't that the basic of ANY photography?

Teach me!! Teach me!!! LOL...

[Benji77]

Originally Posted by JHRfoo I also use a FM2 for film. When I attended my basic course, I was told that is ok to overexpose by up to one stop for film. So I experimented by taking various shots at different exposures. For FM2, I took shots from "-", "- 0", "0", "0 +" and "+". I found personally that the best pictures were made when the exposure readings were "0 +" and "+". Try and experiment for yourself and I hope you have lots of fun doing so!

Yes this is what I do too. I try to get it to 0 as far as possible.

but in the case of the DSLR, it reads 0 all the time. you would have to compensate by doing a +1 or -1 (more or less up to you). if you do this, would it mean that you are tell the DSLR to go back to 0 (18% grey card)?

[Astin]

Originally Posted by Benji77 Yes this is what I do too. I try to get it to 0 as far as possible. but in the case of the DSLR, it reads 0 all the time. you would have to compensate by doing a +1 or -1 (more or less up to you). if you do this, would it mean that you are tell the DSLR to go back to 0 (18% grey card)?

Which "basic photography course" did u attend?