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Thread: BoKeH

  1. #21
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by tsdh
    That's right. Therefore if somebody want to get bokeh in his/her photo, he/she must create a photo with some blur portion. So he/she must know how to create a blur background, or in other word; must understand what DOF is.
    The next step:
    Blur background will not always produce bokeh (blur is not the same as bokeh). So how to create bokeh? by including a high contrast dot in that blur portion.
    Bokeh is actually a high-contrast dot (or a small area) which is greatly out of focus, thus it become a circle (if you want to understand this phenomenon, please read any article about "Circle of Confusion").
    Some lenses produce a nice bokeh, some others not. The shape of bokeh will be determined by 2 factors: aperture blade, and the amount of spherical-aberration correction in the lens. Over-corrected lens, tend to come with ring-shaped bokeh.
    Quote Originally Posted by tsdh
    Diaphragm blades is just half of the story. It only determines the outer shape of bokeh (whether it is pentagonal or hexagonal or round).
    But the most important factor, is the lens design.
    A ring-shaped bokeh will still look bad even if its shape is fully round. And a lens with that kind of bokeh, can not produce a smooth background blur with blending colors, although it is usually able to produce very sharp image.
    This is one of the properties which is emphasized on a "portrait lens". (bokeh will be mostly important on portraiture and macro photography).
    Thank you...

    Your explanation of Bokeh very concise. Now, when someone says to me this lens has creamy Bokeh I have a better understanding of what it means, it is the smooth rounded high contrast blurr of the background.

    I have a question, if the lens produce a hexagonal shape Bokeh, will adding a soft focus filter makes the Bokeh appear nicer? just looking at Bokeh for this instance.

    Trying to find out what can I do to produce the optimum of the gear I had without forking out too much money, i.e.; looking for available options... since Bokeh is very important for portraiture.

    ../azul123
    Last edited by azul123; 16th April 2006 at 08:02 AM.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by tsdh
    Bokeh is closely related to DOF (Depth of Field).
    While DOF is depend on three factors: aperture, actual focal length, and distance to the object.
    The larger the aperture (lower f-number), the less DOF would be.
    The longer the focal length (actual focal length), the less DOF would be.
    The shorter the distance to object, the less DOF would be.
    Actually shud b 5 IIRC. E other 2 r:

    Shutter speed n Distance bet subject n e bg.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    A larger aperture along w a fast shutter will produce good bokeh.

    At a long focal length w shorter distance from cam to subject along w longer distance of subject to bg will also produce good bokeh.

    These 2 put together will get u better bokeh.

    Now if u use a lens datz known for producin good bokeh, n u implement e 2 factors above w it, u will get e best bokeh....

  4. #24
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123
    I have a question, if the lens produce a hexagonal shape Bokeh, will adding a soft focus filter makes the Bokeh appear nicer? just looking at Bokeh for this instance.
    Soft focus filter will only create "softer lines of contrast", but it does not alter the shape of the lines. Therefore a hexagonal bokeh will still be hexagonal, just the outer lines will be smeared to appear soft.
    Usually, opening the lens to its maximum aperture will render the bokeh as circle. May be you should try that way instead of adding soft focus filter.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by hazta
    Actually shud b 5 IIRC. E other 2 r:
    Shutter speed n Distance bet subject n e bg.
    Shutter speed does not change DOF (as long as other parameters are the same).
    Distance between subject to background, yes, it applies the same rule as subject-to-camera distance. (DOF is applicable to both sides: from the subject toward camera, and from the subject toward background).

  6. #26
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by hazta
    A larger aperture along w a fast shutter will produce good bokeh.

    At a long focal length w shorter distance from cam to subject along w longer distance of subject to bg will also produce good bokeh.

    These 2 put together will get u better bokeh.

    Now if u use a lens datz known for producin good bokeh, n u implement e 2 factors above w it, u will get e best bokeh....
    What you are describing is how to get a blurred background. As have been discussed earlier throughout the thread, blurred background is not equal to bokeh. Bokeh specifically describes how out-of-focussed highlights in the background are rendered by the lens. Using a long lens with a close subject with far background and shooting wide open gives you a very blurred background, but whether the blurred background runs together pleasingly is an aspect of the lens itself and nothing the photographer can control, unless you are using the Nikon DF lenses, or you are actively seeking to minimise the number of obvious highlights in the background as your lens render them horribly....

  7. #27
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by tsdh
    Soft focus filter will only create "softer lines of contrast", but it does not alter the shape of the lines. Therefore a hexagonal bokeh will still be hexagonal, just the outer lines will be smeared to appear soft.
    Usually, opening the lens to its maximum aperture will render the bokeh as circle. May be you should try that way instead of adding soft focus filter.
    Noted, I'll try that out and see the Bokeh features at max aperture and differing aperture sets. Now that I know how to set the scene to bring out the Bokeh for observation, thanks.

    ../azul123

  8. #28
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by justarius
    What you are describing is how to get a blurred background. As have been discussed earlier throughout the thread, blurred background is not equal to bokeh. Bokeh specifically describes how out-of-focussed highlights in the background are rendered by the lens. Using a long lens with a close subject with far background and shooting wide open gives you a very blurred background, but whether the blurred background runs together pleasingly is an aspect of the lens itself and nothing the photographer can control, unless you are using the Nikon DF lenses, or you are actively seeking to minimise the number of obvious highlights in the background as your lens render them horribly....
    I agree w u tho but partially... Read n comprehend...

  9. #29

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by darrelchia
    do note. Bokeh is NOT blurred background, or shallow depth of field and should not be used interchangeably. This is a common misconception that new photographers have.

    I'll leave it to you guys to do your homework and figure out what's bokeh.
    well,

    will you be so nice as to let us newb knows the exact meaning? or is this consider another spoon feeding session

  10. #30

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonnew
    well,

    will you be so nice as to let us newb knows the exact meaning? or is this consider another spoon feeding session
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh
    Search engines so powerful nowadays.. quite a waste not to use them..

  11. #31

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon
    Nikon has 2 AF-DC lenses. 135/2 and 105/2.
    85mm 1.4 is still the king

  12. #32

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Hate to disagree but the king should be Minolta STF 135mm/2.8 [T4.5]...

  13. #33

    Default Re: BoKeH

    technically, bokeh is a matter of convulation. by replacing every basic elemet of one image with a second bu constraing the overall brightness of each replica of the second image to be equal to the image element it replaces.

    so what bokeh depends on ultimately is the circle of confusion, as was mentione by tsdh, and how far OOF the bokeh is (which basically means the perspective). it also depends on the shape of the diaphargm opening, the more it avoids triangles, the better

    also, the "bright ring effect" or "hisen" is considered bad bokeh, and so is the spherical abberation being out..

  14. #34

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by glensky
    85mm 1.4 is still the king
    I think the DC 135/2 is still better because you can get great bokeh even with smaller apertures for better subject sharpness.

  15. #35

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon
    I think the DC 135/2 is still better because you can get great bokeh even with smaller apertures for better subject sharpness.
    theres only one way to find out.

  16. #36

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by glensky
    theres only one way to find out.
    Haiz.. must find the time to go shoot lah..

  17. #37

    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon
    Haiz.. must find the time to go shoot lah..
    thats what im toking abt.lets join one of this model shooting and test our babies i mean our lenses kekekek.let me know when ur ready!!

  18. #38
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    Default Re: BoKeH

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega
    when i remove my glasses,
    everything also bokeh
    Try adding 10 pints of beer. The bokeh lagi power!

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