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Thread: A Personal Comment, Motorshow 2002

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    Default A Personal Comment, Motorshow 2002

    I do not write this lightly and have given it at least 48 hours of thought. I stress that everything I mention here are my own opinions and in no way an expression of the views held by Clubsnap as an organisation, nor am I acting on any official behalf but expressing my views as an individual.

    I note a big influx of photos from the Motorshow 2002. As I am not at the moment in Singapore, I have no idea about the size or nature of the event, but from the amount of photographs appearing that it must be a big event and a lengthy one at that.

    I will be the first to admit I have not seen most of the photographs that have been posted. In fact, until 48 hours ago I had looked at one thread and not read any of the remaining ones. Nothing in these newer posts has really changed my initial perception. Namely, that this really is one illustrative aspect of the ugly Singaporean. Or males thinking and acting with something other than what's between their ears.

    I am not in any way singling anyone out. As a matter of fact I have not even actively or passively noted who has posted any kind of pictures on the motorshow, whether good or bad, and I have no intention of doing so. And certainly there have been notable exceptions to what I am saying, so just because you have posted doesn't mean you necessarily are being referred to. Please do not take this as a direct attack at anyone in particular, and I urge other people who haven't posted to do the same, but for those who've posted (you know who you are) to do some serious self-examination.

    A good majority of the photographs posted consist of nothing more than pretty girls smiling in front of the camera. Which just about sums up the vast majority of fashion and glamour work these days, but at least those shots have artistic quality to them. To be blunt, the vast majority of those I have seen posted do not.

    To anyone who would protest, imagine those shots with your father in them. Or your brother. You probably wouldn't even shoot them let alone display them.

    And some of the follow up has been, to my mind, embarrassing. It has come to my attention that some of these models have become really frightened of having their photographs taken. Previously it had been done in good faith, this good faith has been abused and thrown out the window.

    Before anybody brings up the point that these models were paid to be there and had a legitimate expectation of being photographed, I must add that they had legitimate expectation of being photographed in their official capacity there, to be the accompaniment to the cars. As opposed to being the lineup in a beauty contest. And as opposed to being the sole photographic subjects in many cases.

    Also they had legitimate expectations for the photographs not to be treated as they ultimately have been.

    Now also to pre-empt something else. I am not old and traditional and stuffy. And if anything, I am in a country which is, by Singapore standards anyway, amazingly liberal. There was, and possibly still is at this very moment, a film on TV which I shudder to describe in a forum such as this, let alone show.

    So why am I having a rant at some completely tame oogling? Because it's the spirit of the thing that worries me. It's so sad that the situation has got to this level. I'm not saying, if you want to oogle, go oogle at some real pornography, but we have to look at ourselves and our presence in this forum, and why we take pictures.

    I was shooting a couple of girls on Sat evening, and yes they were as part of the arrangement prepared to take a good amount of their clothes off. I think, because of what I wanted to get out of the shoot and because of what worked photographically based on the surroundings and what we had to work with, I had one picture with a nipple showing. And even that was incidental, despite the model having been topless for a good hour at least. I can show you instead a good range of headshots, atmospheric shots, etc, which are excellent photographs of their own right and of which you would never know the model was topless had I not mentioned it.

    Whereas in this motorshow I see girls shot for the sake of it, when really photographically there is not a huge amount redeeming about the images at all. A bit like a model scout would take pictures of potential models to refer to at a later date. Are we scouts, or are we photographers?

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    LOL hi Jed, I thought you used to hangout at HWZ in the old forum? I thought u might have been jaded to the pubescent flux of unbridled lust in the liberal use of avatars...
    but yeah there's a stag party feel to this motorshow, as seen in the galleries..
    why didn't the ladies complain, or comment? that's weird.
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

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    super moderator

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    Hi

    i took a one week hiatus from this forum and came back to scores of car show threads all over.....most with no genuine interest for cars....... the Photojournalism forum now resembles some tabloid paper, with (female) TV stars, (female) singers, show girls all rolled into one....

    The Portraits and Poses forum have degnerated into a soft-porn attraction, fuelled by the great hormonal surge of seeing so many willing ladies and the thrill of justifying one's camera purchase by pointing them at pretty subjects. there were no true attempts at photojournalistic coverage of the event either. Not much pictures of cars, too, for that matter.

    To add insult to injury, the pictures posted are all horrible examples of pornography. Oops, sorry i mean photography (in the loosest sense of the word).

    I guess it's quite hard to take a good picture when your head (the one between your shoulders) is not thinking straight......

    Car shows, fashion shows and the like tend to bring the worst out of ClubSnappers. Mind you, not that there's anything wrong with fashion shows and trying one's hand at such photography. It's a good chance to practice focus tracking, and at least the models are there for a reason - to parade the effort and work of fashion designers and to market the brands of fashion.

    But it seems now they are perfect breeding grounds for exploitation by Clubsnappers with cameras in hand, and Clubsnap a cabaret for adolescent fun.

    This is a sad reflection of the state of photography in Singapore.

    Not to take the moral high ground, but I also think the girls at the Car Show should realise that by dressing up the way they do and working there standing beside the cars they know nothing about, they are already objects of exploitation and helping to prove and reinforce the tried and trusted business maxim that "sex sells".

    having their pictures posted on the net is not the root of their problem. Not being able to tell the difference between German made cars and Japanese manufactured automobiles and unable to explain the different nuances of the engines used in the different vehicles, they serve as nothing more than pretty sex symbols designed to lure precisely the kind of hormone driven photographers mentioned here. Not that these photographers know much about the cars either.......

    I think i shall end here for everyone to do a little reflection.

    Oh btw, German made cars, (like cameras) are better, IMHO. YMMV
    David Teo
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    Originally posted by denizenx
    LOL hi Jed, I thought you used to hangout at HWZ in the old forum? I thought u might have been jaded to the pubescent flux of unbridled lust in the liberal use of avatars...
    but yeah there's a stag party feel to this motorshow, as seen in the galleries..
    why didn't the ladies complain, or comment? that's weird.
    Denizen... don't be too sure they didn't complain.
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    Originally posted by denizenx
    why didn't the ladies complain, or comment? that's weird.
    how do u know they never complain?

    and given ClubSnap's traffic and (now) notoriety, what do u think the chances of someone's friend appearing here for voting are? Pretty likely I would think.

    those complaints, comments have been discussed and deliberated by the moderators and such for a while before this thread.

    ps: anyway i posted here basically the same thing as I told the moderators in our discussion.
    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

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    Not to mention, take a look at the viewing figures for the motor show threads. On average, they are seen about 3-4 times more than the normal thread. I noted one thread which received 1 reply, which usually means a viewership of about 100 hits. This one had 500 plus.

  9. #9

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    I would agree with Jed's view on the whole. I have been to the motorshow too and took photographs as well. I did not post as I share Jed's view. However, in a positive way, I am glad that someone posted some pics. Given the same model, lighting, same pose somemore. the pics still look diffrent. In a way , I get to see different angle and compostion from mine.

    I just hope more people would approach the pic with a learning way. Just to be fair, I also ogle at times . Learning can be fun need not be stressful.

  10. #10

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    Originally posted by Wolfgang


    Denizen... don't be too sure they didn't complain.
    As one of those who 'abused' the event to practice model taking (not handsome enough to get frens to pose ) , I could tell they were quite frustrated and annoyed, especially after the nth number of times some guy came up to request a shot with them. They were really quite professional to keep smiling for so many days. One of the nissan models was nice enough to give me some comments on my shots. Failed my report card

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    Originally posted by denizenx
    LOL hi Jed, I thought you used to hangout at HWZ in the old forum?
    No I didn't.

    I thought u might have been jaded to the pubescent flux of unbridled lust in the liberal use of avatars...

    No, but seriously, even if I had, it's no defence nor excuse. Just because something is commonplace doesn't make it right.

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    Originally posted by xdivider


    As one of those who 'abused' the event to practice model taking (not handsome enough to get frens to pose )
    And whats that supposed to mean?
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    Model taking is fine. But was this really an exercise in model taking at all, except in the sense that there were models in front of the camera and their photos were taken?

    I have no idea if I have seen your pictures and what kind of photographs they are xdivider, as I said, I am not singling anyone out.

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    yeah Jed seriously I am jaded to it :] ...
    the use of buxom jap teens as avatars is I hope only a stage in that particular user's life. I only browsed the first few galleries, to see the faces I guess. LOL curious lor.

    As for presence of complaints, then why hadn't anyone raised the issue in public sooner? and asked for toning down? just a sticky "please show less testosterone" might work. before this forum turns into another of that other-forum-with-girls-that-got-in-the-news...
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

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    OT a bit, but seeing these galleries I thought the show was quite bland, then saw someone post a CAR gallery, forgot who. nice.
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

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    This is exactly something I wanted to speak out, and actually I had already spoken out: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...highlight=cute

    I have the same feeling. As a photographer, we should look quite differently from a snapshooter. Yes, I shoot girls, and I like shooting pretty girls, who does not? But remember, you won't do it in a correct way unless you appreciate your subject at the first place. If you DO shoot a girl, do it differently. Personally I think shooting fasion shows is getting boring after I tried two times. For me it's only a try-out for the sake of technical practice, nothing else attracts/inspires me if only because the models are pretty. And if I do again, I will very reluctantly post any.

    Bottom line: If you appreciate a pretty girl, you'd better treat her nicely.

  17. #17

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    heh, what a mouthful.

    well, i didn't really think sooo deep, but I was really DISAPPOINTED to see, out of soooo many postings

    ONLY 1 picture of the Enzo and ZERO/NONE for 575M

    Total Let-Down!

  18. #18

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    Originally posted by Jed
    Model taking is fine. But was this really an exercise in model taking at all, except in the sense that there were models in front of the camera and their photos were taken?

    I have no idea if I have seen your pictures and what kind of photographs they are xdivider, as I said, I am not singling anyone out.
    Its okie, i'm only posting my views and i noe i'm guilty as charged . For my case, I went 2x. First time, tried to take a series of the girls with the cars. It turned out horrible and noisy as i'm not good at flash photography indoors yet. After asking for some advice from some frens who commented that i cluttered the pictures and that the flash coverage was not wide and far enough, i decided to try some different settings with different equipment and focused the coverage on the models instead. The results this time was better but after looking some of those done by others in the forum, I found myself lacking in some of the exposure and framing skills that others had shown in their shots. I would say the motor show was 'abused' in some sense by people whose aim there was not there for the cars but it did gave me some experience in what to expect for such lighting environments and what are the techniques that i can try out next time to get a better picture. I do hope the models forgave me for taking lousy shots of them though

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    hmm yeah maybe it's the way the girls' pix are treated that's raising our ire. like trading cards etc...
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  20. #20

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    Jed

    thanks for sharing.....

    just to share...

    i guess there are lots of question and answer going on now and then...

    my point of view... these photographers are there to "show off" their work... more then to share their work...especially those without their own groups of buddies...

    suprisingly.... when they shoot in the morning, within 24hours, u can see these pictures HERE...

    they didn't notice, most pictures are under expose... and have been constance instead of improving... that's the good useage of DSLR?? or Digital cam...???

    when comes to flash, they just hit it in the subject regardless of distance... can see that most pictures are of TTL and auto... no ambience lighting...

    been to the show with friends... and seen photographers with flash card... for my flash photography, what matters most are the compensation on flash, distance and ceiling more than FLASH CARD... last but not the less... your setting.... some SLR auto mode are worst than compact cameras...
    i don't see any different with flash card AT ALL...

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