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Thread: Nikon Coolscan IV

  1. #21
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    I believe, at least for windows, it has been dummified for us. all those ICM files? those are colour profiles.

    [colour profiles and printing/viewing etc]
    in ps, (I use 7) try running the colour manager and try out the sRGB, Adobe98, your monitor.ICM and your printer.ICM etc (use "custom/advanced" if cannot see all the ICMs)

    if normal JPG, changing to printer.icm will usually fade it out, cos ur ink behaves diff from the monitor.
    go get an Adobe98 file from dpreview's galleries and view it in sRGB then Adobe98 u'll see some parts smooth out nicely... meaning sRGB has a smaller set of colours...

    ok now that u've seen some diff types. how to switch between?

    go to Edit or somewhere (see version) and look for adjust->change(or assign) colour profile. here u can convert ur e.g. Adobe98 file to BJC1998.ICM then u'll print out looking like the image on screen. (of cos black is always a bit crappy).

    [colour modes]
    since RGB as prev mentioned is addi(c)tive, while CYMK is reversed. therefore some super bright n pretty colours on monitor cannot be achieved by ink unless it's wax/metal(special)-dye etc.
    so using CYMK, or converting to CYMK just before u print, is to preview if some of the pretty colours in your work might not be achievable printed.
    test, by doing a gradient using the rainbow palette, then convert to CYMK from RGB. see that ur colours start to look duller or muddier, that's it exactly. and turning on gamut warning is supposed to blink areas of colour that TOTALLY cannot be printed proper.

    [misc comments]
    this is also a reason why slides look nicer than prints, cos the colours have a glowing (radiating? forgot the term) medium vs the reflective paper of a print.

    sounds messy? pls ask portions then maybe I can (mis)guide u further..
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  2. #22
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    Originally posted by rayman


    Hi Radix,

    Pls correct if I'm wrong. Don't ink cartridges for printers come in packs of CMYK? Well at least the ones I've come into contact to do. Doesn't this mean that CMYK will be a better representation of the colour scheme to use so as to get a closer version of the actual printout on your monitor?

    Thanx for letting me know
    it is, BUT PS has some filters that might only in RGB (and 8-bit) only... this is due to the SDK having a default mode of RGB and 8-bit. so lazier or amateur programmers doing filters might support only RGB.
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  3. #23
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    The manuals of the Nikon scanners really sux man. For interest sake, how are e manuals for Canon & Minolta scanners??

  4. #24

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    more tips

    1)
    sRGB is a small color space, meaning it will mostly be easy for your monitor to represent it, and later on, definately your printer can represent it as well, so the result is an easier "what you see is what you get"

    image using a color space that is much larger, your monitor cannot see it, later... your printer also cannot represent it properly... you'll have more trouble getting things to match up.

    2)
    at times, I find that turning on "grain reduction" enables the scanner to scan better... the color are more "correct" and there and tonal range is DRAMATICALLY improved..

    3)
    Vuescan... it beats nikonscan in about 90% of the time...... WAY WAY better
    36frames Wedding Photography - http://www.36frames.com
    rueyloon - http://www.rueyloon.com

  5. #25
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    Originally posted by rayman


    Hi Radix,

    Pls correct if I'm wrong. Don't ink cartridges for printers come in packs of CMYK? Well at least the ones I've come into contact to do. Doesn't this mean that CMYK will be a better representation of the colour scheme to use so as to get a closer version of the actual printout on your monitor?

    Thanx for letting me know
    Misconception: Though Inkjet printers uses CMYK inks for printing, they work in the RGB colour space. Internally, the printer will convert RGB -> CMYK for printing. Send CMYK files to it and you are likely to get weird colour casts.

    Regards
    CK

  6. #26
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    Woah! Thanx guys for clearing up what I always thought was right

    Why then does Adobe come with CMYK if it cannot accurately represent the output on print?

  7. #27
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    Originally posted by rayman
    Woah! Thanx guys for clearing up what I always thought was right

    Why then does Adobe come with CMYK if it cannot accurately represent the output on print?
    For those people in the printing/colour seperation industry who has to work in the CMYK space?

    Regards
    CK

  8. #28

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    Ckiang is absolutely right! In spite of using CMYK inks, the printers operate in the RGB space. So, in order to obtain the best (most accurate) colours from the printer, one can use the folowing workflow:
    1. While scanning, scan into AdobeRGB colour space.
    2. Use AdobeRGB as your working space in PS.
    3. While printing, look at (Epson) Twain driver - it has 2 profiles that it requires. First the source profile - set it to AdobeRGB. This is because u have used AdobeRGB in step 2. Then in destination profile, enter the colour space of the printer. The printer software CD comes bundled with the native .icm profile of the printer. This is the one that is supposed to be used to ensure the most accurate colours. As a last step, specify the conversion method from source to destination as "Relative Colorimetric" (I believe the default is Absolute).

    Following the above workflow, I have never had a problem with colors - Gamma calibration between monitor and my prints is what I still struggle with everytime! Any tips on those?
    Last edited by Radix Lecti; 5th December 2002 at 10:45 AM.

  9. #29
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    For those people in the printing/colour seperation industry who has to work in the CMYK space?

    Regards
    CK
    Hmmm... But that still does not explain why there is CMYK in PS when the colour represented on your screen does not accurately show what you will print. And if printers automatically convert RGB to CMYK space, why is there a need for CMYK in the very first place?

    Hmmm... My thirst for this answer is not too quenched... Anyone can help??

  10. #30
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    Wow - really started something here!!

    Totally agree that the Nikon manual sux. Completely inadequate for such an expensive piece of kit.

    Haven't read everything posted in depth but all seems rather confusing. From my experience, scanning in CMYK produces an inferior colour quality compared to RGB. But then, is that just my monitor?? Having trouble with my printer too so it's difficult to compare but from the shot I did manage to print, CMYK way off the original colour of slide. Sticking with RGB.

    Here's another question - why does my printer (Epson Photo 830) sometimes stop half way through a print. Lack of memory seems obvious one - only got 128mb.

    Cheers,

  11. #31
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    Originally posted by rayman


    Hmmm... But that still does not explain why there is CMYK in PS when the colour represented on your screen does not accurately show what you will print. And if printers automatically convert RGB to CMYK space, why is there a need for CMYK in the very first place?

    Hmmm... My thirst for this answer is not too quenched... Anyone can help??
    No no, only the inkjet printers (and probably some consumer printers) work in a form of RGB and convert to CMYK to print. The professional colour separation machines, etc work in CMYK IIRC. The monitor can roughly show what it will look like in the form of "soft proof".

    Regards
    CK

  12. #32
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    Thanx for being so patient with me, CK.

    Are you saying that CMYK on certain monitors can somewhat portray what will be printed out on professional printers? Are the conventional monitors incapable of doing the same thing?

  13. #33

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    reason for the manual being sucks :

    Nikon are used by professional, they don;t need no manual.


  14. #34
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    Originally posted by rayman
    Thanx for being so patient with me, CK.

    Are you saying that CMYK on certain monitors can somewhat portray what will be printed out on professional printers? Are the conventional monitors incapable of doing the same thing?
    They can't, they can only approximate. Whether RGB or CMYK, monitors (even calibrated ones) can never perfectly match prints.

    Regards
    CK

  15. #35
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    They can't, they can only approximate. Whether RGB or CMYK, monitors (even calibrated ones) can never perfectly match prints.

    Regards
    CK
    even the calibrated monitor is closely matched to the print out....
    when u have to restart the pc.... everything gets reset.... although the same icm profile has been loaded.... (maybe the printer lousy)

    eg. the harry porter walkthough near Suntec Underpass to raffles link via city link?... i m sure its a 6-figure sum... just to get the colors right.....(god knows how much ink n paper they waste and not forgetting time)

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