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Thread: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

  1. #61

    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by wildstallion
    Agree, Pro Comment

    I find some of the nikon sensors very noisy and would ever want to go above iso800 in dark conditions because the noise level is too high, I have heard that canon sensors can handle noise alot better, but then again so can the d200 and D2X whne compared to the d70(s) and d50.
    I tend to believe it's not the sensor but the digital processing engine. Despite the noise, I find Nikon images retain quite alot of tonal details. Canon's images is just flat single tone, all the details treated like noise and bulldozed away. Good for some people, just not good enough for me.

  2. #62
    Senior Member icarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Pros :
    Best wide angle lenses ever 17-35/2.8, 20/2.8, 24/2.8, 28/1.4..etc
    easy to use camera bodies
    F-mount
    Best Flash system ever SB800
    Best Micro lenses system ever 105/2.8, 200/4
    D2X

    Cons :
    No option for 1.3x, 1.0x sensor size
    Inconsistent WB in D70,D70s
    Noise problems in D70,D70s,D2H
    Last edited by icarus; 27th February 2006 at 12:30 AM.
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  3. #63

    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Pro: Good flash system, Good DSLR/SLR body built & better shutter sound
    Con: Lousy WB, Noise Control & no FF

  4. #64
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    No harm with a little discussion I guess.

    Pros: Best flash system, Better handling and button placement, Great lenses

    Cons (mostly against Canon): Usually slower in technological advances, higher noise (but more grain-like), lenses cost more

  5. #65

    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon
    How come? I rate Nikon lenses among the tops!
    Their lenses are OK, they still have the Jap bias towards high contrast multicoatings and a tendency to be a bit cool in tonality. Shadow areas lack detail compared to German offerings.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrode
    Their lenses are OK, they still have the Jap bias towards high contrast multicoatings and a tendency to be a bit cool in tonality. Shadow areas lack detail compared to German offerings.
    how about L lenses when they r compared to German optics?

  7. #67
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    Pros: Have technology that matters and usable, lead rather than follow (tech like VR, iTTL/CLS, WiFi, DX lenses), range of lenses that can be used on current bodies that are unique like 6mm, 8mm to 1200-1700 Great usability in the products (batteries, UI, egonomics)

    Cons: Too good products that are too ex...
    erm.. i tot i read in a recent thread in CS that VR was launched many years later after it was first introduced in SLR lenses by .....
    - wireless speedlight system was also few years behind.
    Though Nikon was first to give it a name 'CLS'. Nikon has a more affordable speedlight system which is good. Though the on/off button could be improved by using a rocker or slide switch rather than the current PRESS and HOLD.

    - DX lenses.. I would say it's more mandatory than an innovative lead, unless Nikon wants to go full frame
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    erm.. i tot i read in a recent thread in CS that VR was launched many years later after it was first introduced in SLR lenses by .....
    - wireless speedlight system was also few years behind.
    Though Nikon was first to give it a name 'CLS'. Nikon has a more affordable speedlight system which is good. Though the on/off button could be improved by using a rocker or slide switch rather than the current PRESS and HOLD.

    - DX lenses.. I would say it's more mandatory than an innovative lead, unless Nikon wants to go full frame

    Please search on the net yourself.

    BTW, Wireless flash was in the flash back in 1990's with wireless slave. If you don't know what i-TTL/CLS can do, find out. I've told someone the same thing 3x for over a year. Yet, nothing has changed. The holding down button IMO is much better; nothing to stick out like a sore thumb.

    Do a little research instead of just listening to what people say. A good place would be here.
    As for DX, well you have no idea what you are talking about. Clue: Sigma 12-24 is not DX.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher

    Please search on the net yourself.

    BTW, Wireless flash was in the flash back in 1990's with wireless slave. If you don't know what i-TTL/CLS can do, find out. I've told someone the same thing 3x for over a year. Yet, nothing has changed. The holding down button IMO is much better; nothing to stick out like a sore thumb.

    Do a little research instead of just listening to what people say. A good place would be here.
    As for DX, well you have no idea what you are talking about. Clue: Sigma 12-24 is not DX.
    from http://www.kjsl.com/~dave/wireless.html
    Canon introduced wireless flash for the EOS system in 1998 with the 550EX speedlite and transmitter ST-E2.
    from http://www.olegnovikov.com/technical/nikoncls/cls.shtml
    CLS came into being with the introduction of the Speedlight SB-800 in July 2003
    from http://www.dpreview.com/news/0601/06011902canonef.asp
    - First commercialisation in 1987 of the Ultrasonic Motor (USM) for use in interchangeable SLR camera lenses...
    ...
    - First interchangeable lens to incorporate an Image Stabilizer (IS)
    am I in the right direction?

    For the DX part.. you are right.. I am totally lost and confused.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  10. #70
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    oh oh.. degrading into N v C thread liao..
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  11. #71

    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Hmm.. I've used both the D2Hs and the D200 ...
    Find that the D200 noise handling is much cleaner.. iso 1600 is very usable on the D200...
    on the D2Hs, I would push to 640-800...
    On the D2X, I would push only to 500..

  12. #72
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    From here
    a new built-in Wireless Slave Flash function
    CLS is just a latest version of wireless slave flash control. The SB26 had it since 1994. Look up the latest Canon's update on the how they currently wirelessly control the flash (there is a new link up) and compare to how i-TTL / CLS work.
    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    from http://www.dpreview.com/news/0601/06011902canonef.asp


    am I in the right direction?

    For the DX part.. you are right.. I am totally lost and confused.
    Nikon came out first with VR on a P&S, before Canon. If you want to say that it is not on a 35mm SLR lens, you are right. However, it did appear first as a commercial product.

    As for the lens, DX is not necessary at all in order to have a 12-24mm lens. Sigma proved this. There is no need to at all to have DX lens even with 1.5x crop. Without the multiple crop format, Nikon DSLR is instead much more consistent. 1 crop factor. Don't forget that Nikon has produced 6mm & 8mm fisheyes as well. No need to for a DX 10.5. They can jolly well make a 1.0x crop 10.5mm

    Most wrongly assumed that DX is because of 1.5x crop...
    Last edited by Watcher; 27th February 2006 at 09:00 PM.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    From here

    CLS is just a latest version of wireless slave flash control. The SB26 had it since 1994. Look up the latest Canon's update on the how they currently wirelessly control the flash (there is a new link up) and compare to how i-TTL / CLS work.
    SB26's wireless mode is primitive.... almost as advanced as the wireless mode found in a sub $30 Achiever 115A/S flash. Canon's EX (and Nikon CLS) on the other hand offers TTL capabilities and it's only recently that Nikon managed to leapfrog with the SB600 and SB800 (and the distance is now quite a bit for Canon to catch up).

    Why I said primitive (below's for SB80DX - no TTL!):
    Wireless Modes. The return of wireless control to the top-of-the-line Speedlight! In automatic modes, the claimed maximum distance is 23 feet (7m), in manual modes this increases to 131 feet (40m).

    The other thing that was slow in coming is high speed TTL (addressed again by the introduction of SB600 and SB800). Below's for SB80DX:
    No High Speed TTL. It really shouldn't be that hard. After all, Minolta and Canon have managed to do it...

    With the SB600 and SB800, Nikon manages to edge ahead of its rivals in flash technology I also love the flash foot... it's so easy to slide on and off

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    Nikon came out first with VR on a P&S, before Canon. If you want to say that it is not on a 35mm SLR lens, you are right. However, it did appear first as a commercial product.
    hmm.. which one?

    Just read that The worlds first binocular with an internal image stabilising system was Fujinon's Stabiscope introduced in 1980. The Fujinon breakthrough was based on stabilising not the entire binocular but just the optics.. Not too sure how similar this is to Canon IS or Nikon VR though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    As for the lens, DX is not necessary at all in order to have a 12-24mm lens. Sigma proved this. There is no need to at all to have DX lens even with 1.5x crop. Without the multiple crop format, Nikon DSLR is instead much more consistent. 1 crop factor. Don't forget that Nikon has produced 6mm & 8mm fisheyes as well. No need to for a DX 10.5. They can jolly well make a 1.0x crop 10.5mm

    Most wrongly assumed that DX is because of 1.5x crop...
    This Sigma lens is slow and big though... quite a bit slower than Canon and Nikon EF-S and DX equivalent and pretty expensive. Still it's an innovative bold move.
    Last edited by mpenza; 27th February 2006 at 09:28 PM.

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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Ok, no problem to discuss these things with you because I know you won't get over zealous and personal



    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza
    SB26's wireless mode is primitive.... almost as advanced as the wireless mode found in a sub $30 Achiever 115A/S flash. Canon's EX (and Nikon CLS) on the other hand offers TTL capabilities and it's only recently that Nikon managed to leapfrog with the SB600 and SB800 (and the distance is now quite a bit for Canon to catch up).
    Not really recently, SB-800 has been out for over a year and with the D2HS, the CLS + accuracy of the i-TTL in burst or single has proven to be accurate & powerful in many areas. The ability to control up to 64 SB-800/600s wirelessly at one single go is by far, unmatched. Not Minolta, not pentax, nor Oly.

    SB-80DX has already during the era of DSLR proven itself to be a better/consistent flash than the well known 550EX, which infact performed less consistent as compared to 420EX.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza
    The other thing that was slow in coming is high speed TTL (addressed again by the introduction of SB600 and SB800). Below's for SB80DX:
    No High Speed TTL. It really shouldn't be that hard. After all, Minolta and Canon have managed to do it...
    ? SB-80DX does provide high speed TTL, but that's only on the pro bodies like D1/D2, SB-80DX. With the now exception of D200 providing high speed TTL sync, we can look forward to future bodies equipped with such capabilities as well. The only thing yet to come is the fallback to D-TTL if a non-iTTL flash is used.

    Eg: SB-80DX + D2 bodies = D-TTL
    SB-800 + D2 bodies = i-TTL

    Currently, D200 only is able to support i-TTL and not D-TTL. Which to my dismay was a pretty sad move.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza
    With the SB600 and SB800, Nikon manages to edge ahead of its rivals in flash technology
    Don't forget, it's 64 sets of SB-800/600 heehee. Till now I'm still learning how to control CLS + i-TTL.


    Last edited by espn; 27th February 2006 at 09:30 PM.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    ? SB-80DX does provide high speed TTL, but that's only on the pro bodies like D1/D2, SB-80DX. With the now exception of D200 providing high speed TTL sync, we can look forward to future bodies equipped with such capabilities as well. The only thing yet to come is the fallback to D-TTL if a non-iTTL flash is used.

    Eg: SB-80DX + D2 bodies = D-TTL
    SB-800 + D2 bodies = i-TTL

    Currently, D200 only is able to support i-TTL and not D-TTL. Which to my dismay was a pretty sad move.
    Is it? I read it from Thom Hagon's review and also my experience with the flash on a fujifilm digicam
    http://www.bythom.com/sb80review.htm

    Btw, I was referring to highspeed flash sync with TTL metering, not normal flash (Nikon already support normal flash TTL metering long long ago lah!!!).

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Don't forget, it's 64 sets of SB-800/600 heehee. Till now I'm still learning how to control CLS + i-TTL.

    Canon's one can only control 3 groups of flash units.... didn't use it much though (have only used at most 2 flash units in wireless mode)
    Last edited by mpenza; 27th February 2006 at 09:39 PM.

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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza
    Is it? I read it from Thom Hagon's review and also my experience with the flash on a fujifilm digicam
    http://www.bythom.com/sb80review.htm

    Btw, I was referring to highspeed flash sync with TTL metering, not normal flash (Nikon already support normal flash TTL metering long long ago lah!!!).
    I quote Thom

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom
    # Digital ready. Besides the obvious D-TTL modes, the SB-80DX also features the Auto Aperture (AA) automatic flash mode first seen on the SB-28DX. Better still, the FP High Speed sync mode is fully functional without having to do any calculations (e.g., the display shows the shooting distance).


    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza
    Canon's one can only control 3 groups of flash units.... didn't use it much though (have only used at most 2 flash units in wireless mode)
    The most I ever use for Nikon's is 5 SB-800s at one go with CLS, which was very interesting. It's almost a BBB for me!!! I got a feeling can do much more with more SB-800s, pity wallet doesn't allow

  17. #77
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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    I quote Thom

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom

    # Digital ready. Besides the obvious D-TTL modes, the SB-80DX also features the Auto Aperture (AA) automatic flash mode first seen on the SB-28DX. Better still, the FP High Speed sync mode is fully functional without having to do any calculations (e.g., the display shows the shooting distance).
    This is not TTL lah. It's using an automatic mode and the metering is based on sensor on the flash (rather than through the lens for E-TTL and I-TTL). The manual said so too!

    That's why Thom said:
    No High Speed TTL. It really shouldn't be that hard. After all, Minolta and Canon have managed to do it...

    This actually makes it very useful for the older SLRs (made when high speed TTL was uncommon).
    Last edited by mpenza; 27th February 2006 at 09:46 PM.

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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza
    This is not TTL lah. It's using an automatic mode and the metering is based on sensor on the flash (rather than through the lens for E-TTL and I-TTL). The manual said so too!

    That's why Thom said:
    No High Speed TTL. It really shouldn't be that hard. After all, Minolta and Canon have managed to do it...
    Issit?

  19. #79

    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Hi I found that my D70s when taking red colour as background, the picture turn out like very reddish, say the object in front is red and background also red, it look like both thing merged together... any one have this problem or solution to it...

    Other than that Nikon is OK... except their lens is X lor... Haha

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    Default Re: All the Pros and Cons of Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    The ability to control up to 64 SB-800/600s wirelessly at one single go is by far, unmatched. Not Minolta, not pentax, nor Oly.
    64 flashes in one group or in 64 groups? I don't think there's a limit to the numbers of flash in a group.

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    SB-80DX has already during the era of DSLR proven itself to be a better/consistent flash than the well known 550EX, which infact performed less consistent as compared to 420EX.
    Among the Nikon flashes I've used with a D100, I have a pretty low rating for the SB-80DX. The SB-28DX was a pretty good flash though.

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