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Thread: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

  1. #21

    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by incognito2
    I can't quite understand the 2nd hand market mentality.

    A new 17-40L costs about $1200 but people will pay $950 for a used one, even without warranty.

    A new 24-70L or 24-105L costs around $2200. Again people are willing to pay as much as $1900.

    The difference of $250 to $300 is so small when you are already paying $950, and even smaller when paying $1900. Why not pay a little bit for a brand new one with warranty? At least if the lens is a dud you can bring it back to Canon.

    Am I missing something here?

    Anyone can enlighten me?

    because every dollar counts.

    the $200 difference can go into other purchases. in this era, we dont just buy cameras. we buy
    camera
    lens
    flash
    laptop
    mp3 player
    handphone
    videocamera
    house
    car
    pay bills
    vcd
    dvd
    mountain bike
    track shoes
    clothes
    roller blades
    lunch
    dinner
    taxi fare
    socks
    underwear
    mineral water
    fruits
    sunglasses
    ....

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by syke
    Hi incognito2,

    Where did you find the 24-70L at around $2200? Care to share? Have to been checking around and all are at least >$2300. I hope your $2200 one is not grey market.
    Just go look for The Oracle....

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoned
    Well it depends you see, lenses don't depreciate much. So if you buy a second hand you can actually sell it off at the same price that you bought it at. It's lossless equipment purchase. You have to resell and buy often(at least once every 2 years) though.
    Yeah, we said. Some are actually doing it as a matter of habit. Get it, play for a few months to a year and then, sell off almost lossless - wonderfully fabulous way to photography, many thanks to this CS buy n sell.....
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by incognito2
    Just go look for The Oracle....
    Yeah, I know. But I would prefer a shop with sufficient stock for cherry picking. I don't think Oracle would be too delighted if I were to put out such a request.

  5. #25
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    not to mention some ppl buy lenses at cheaper rates than they sell them off...
    eat. drink. shoot

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by +evenstar
    not to mention some ppl buy lenses at cheaper rates than they sell them off...
    Is this the way, ppl try out lens by buying used lens and if they do not like them, they will resell again. This cycle will go on-and-on to provide a constant pool of buyers.
    If there are no buyers, there will be no sellers and if there are no buyers willing to pay high price for it, there will be no high price resale value/perceived value (as someone mentioned) for the sellers. So this is the way, in resales market.

    Just my point.
    Last edited by Steplim; 27th February 2006 at 01:50 PM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by astroboy
    There r suckers born every minute. That's why someone managed to sell a 16-35 for almost the price of a new one. And his lens is "source unknown" meaning could be 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand... no one knows cos no receipt. For a savings of a hundred or two, I would not wanna risk 2K on a dud. A manufacturer warranty counts for something.

    i must agree with this.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    1. There are people that think the saving is significant cos most 2nd Lenses seller will throw in additional filter... and there are a few that I've seen... B+W filters, expensive ones..

    2. 2nd market is just like any market, mere supply and demand. IF you see a certain surge of 24-70 F2.8L flooding the B&S thread, you could see the transacted price drop to 1.7k~~ or so...

    and of course, why will ppl pay for a mere few hunderd bucks saving? cos L Lenses are made to last generally usually practially however-ly longer, and hobbist tat buy L will craddle it like a baby *professional and hard cord photog excluded* therefore, showing minor to nill difference between new and use... Nuff said... your take.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by astroboy
    There r suckers born every minute. That's why someone managed to sell a 16-35 for almost the price of a new one. And his lens is "source unknown" meaning could be 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand... no one knows cos no receipt. For a savings of a hundred or two, I would not wanna risk 2K on a dud. A manufacturer warranty counts for something.
    No pain no gain my friend... life's full of risk... wuahahahahaha

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Have you ever heard of supply and demand?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    I think the most important thing is to have a vibrant second-market where prices can be determined by the rules of supply and demand.

    There is not denying anyone the right to buy a brand new lens at $200 more and neither is anyone being refused the right to bid of a used less at what some might consider a small discount.

    I am very sure that the majority of CSers are technically competent enough in their evaluation of their buy/sales. Therefore, transaction prices are likely a accurate reflection of the depreciating value of the equipment.

    Of course, practically speaking, the system is not perfect and a little bit of monitering/moderating is required (people pushing up their bids artifically, selling defective lens).

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    People buy used because these things have been tried, tested and proven. It's like antique. They may even increase in value as they age.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Studying Econs is the answer to your question. Nuff said.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Also more important save the earth by supporting recycled products, dude!

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirax
    Also more important save the earth by supporting recycled products, dude!

  16. #36

    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    I supposed when someone bought a lousy copy of used lens, they will resell it to someone else.

    Strangely, I have only seen advertisements claiming sharp copy. Have not seen someone claimed "average copy" or "blur copy" of used lens. Then I wonder where are the bad lens? Why is all used lens sharp copies?

    Did a little observation. Apparently, some users do not really take care of their lens contrary to normal practice. Even a few attempted to clean their own lens by opening up their lenses but claimed otherwise later when selling. You will be suprised to see some clean their lenses with the t-shirt that they are wearing, not with that $10 microfibre cloth.

    All advertisement claims that their lenses are always stored in dry box or cabinets. Yes many do store them properly away from humidity, BUT the fact is that there are also some users who do NOT store them this way.

    2nd market can be dishonest at times. When someone claimed a lens is unused, do you really think it is unused? Look at the marks around the lens mount, how can an unused lens have marks? Then we have lens advertised as MINT in the market, but sometimes when you view them, they are hardly to be described as MINT.

    For the pros, they will probably buy new lenses then to avoid the risk. Many others who are still searching that lens that suits them will venture with used lenses to try out first, which is not wrong also.

    Ok, some of the high end used lenses are truly too close to a new price. If I were to buy a high-end $2k lens, I will likely buy new by just paying that $200 more. But for mediocre lenses otherwise, they usually are much less with a resale value of about 60 % to 70% of the new price.

    <Mint copy for sale! First owner ... very sharp one! ...hehehe>




    Quote Originally Posted by incognito2
    Haha... wow! What a load of different responses!

    To those who think $200 is a lot... no offence. I never meant to belittle your hard earned money. Just feel that if you get a dud, then the $200 saved will seem a pittance compared to the amount risked.
    Last edited by burmesterhifi; 28th February 2006 at 09:34 PM.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    .........

    CAVEAT EMPTOR.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    Don't understand lor.

    True that sometimes new lens cost a bit more & we buy 2nd hand. Yes I have felt like bloody fool before. Some of us have walked down that road.

    A long time ago, a guy sold a Leica 35mm M lens (at high price) to me. He was very rich. Big $multimillion house along Adam Road.
    I heard he took my money and top up a little bit to buy a new lens.


    That day I learned the true meaning of greed (of the very rich)

    The one who is so rich does this to others; to enrich himself even more. My fault. I was stupid.
    Well, karmatic retribution... heard the company he worked for got gobbled up by another.

    There are times too when I bought a great lens at a cheap price and was happy. 2nd hand market is like that.
    It is great for finding stuff that is no longer produced.

    Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

    Globally speaking, thank goodness for 2nd hand market.
    Imagine how wasteful it would be if ALL photographers ONLY BUY NEW, all of the time, worldwide.

    Stupid isn't it? Never heard of re-use?

    Sometimes a photog buys a lens and for whatever reason does not like it. He sells it after 1 week at 1/2 price -- used once only.
    If I had wanted to buy that lens, then do I ignore the good deal?

    There are collectors who bought a lens/ camera 10 years ago and it is so well cared for, it looks like new from the shop.
    If I can buy it for 1/3 the price, do I say "NO"?

    Some old cameras/lenses surpass new ones.
    New ones are victims of manufacturing COST CUTTING !!!!!
    They put a bean counter in charge of producing an artistic equipment.

    There are people who insist on NOT buying the newer Leica M6's.
    It seems some dreadful cheapening has been done internally...alamak... cost cutting again. They look for the late 1980's and early 90's M6's. Maybe they know something I don't.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Cant understand this 2nd hand market...

    If the resale price is more than 80% of the new price or only difference of about $200, I will not be tempted. that's my guideline in buying 2nd hand.

    a 20% saving means a lot to me but if can buy a new one for alittie more, I will get the new one.

    Say in B&S, I often see 50mm F1.8 selling for around S$120, what the silly joke, a new one is only $135. I will never consider a 2nd hand one in this case.

    On the other hand if I need to use a certain lens for only certain purpose, I dont mind getting a cheap one or rent to use. No point getting a new one for those occasional use.

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