View Poll Results: Is it necessary to use Atomic Bomb against Japan ?

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  • Yes, Japan will surrender earlier

    56 63.64%
  • No, Japan will surrender anyway

    28 31.82%
  • Not sure

    4 4.55%
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Thread: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

  1. #121
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    technically.. we would'nt know the difference...

    cos hitler will condemn the 'allied' and call themselves the 'rightful' ppl... and all of us would be speaking germans & japanese...

    we will be having the hitler statue everywhere, flags will be the nazi sign, they would throw stones at chinese (me) and jews, well... maybe those americans as well... we get to work as slaves...

    or maybe, we might be treated otherwise...

    maybe... lets think if there wasn't any japanese occupation, will we be still working for the british and only be coolie & such?
    Well... maybe we'd all be under one rule and then there wont be any use for money. In which case, we work for the betterment of mankind. Start building starships to explore the universe to satisfy our innate need to conquer......

    To boldly go where no man has gone before...

  2. #122
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by tokrot
    Now tell me why aren't you in Iraq?
    Who is crazy enough to go to Iraq?

    The US themsselves are finding it hard to justify staying in Iraq, US public opinions has shifted... more believes that the US President and his Administration had bent or concealed the truth.

    Now.. that tells alot about how truth can be bent, concealed or whatever you want to call it, if you can form the Public opinion you can say the A-bomb was a necessity to save lives to quicken the end of war to save humanity to save the world... etc.. etc..

    ../azul123

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    Well... maybe we'd all be under one rule and then there wont be any use for money. In which case, we work for the betterment of mankind. Start building starships to explore the universe to satisfy our innate need to conquer......

    To boldly go where no man has gone before...
    ever wonder y anime characters even blonde or pink or watever hair color or skin color, all speak japanese? thats the alternate universe...

    who knows... maybe we might be one of the crew for the Space Cruiser Yamato... taking the Galaxy Express 999... den living in Side 7, suddenly Side 5 get independent & sent out Zakus after us, den i found a mech RX-78, and then everybody was on the White Base...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    Well... maybe we'd all be under one rule and then there wont be any use for money. In which case, we work for the betterment of mankind. Start building starships to explore the universe to satisfy our innate need to conquer......

    To boldly go where no man has gone before...
    oh ya... if really the germans or japanese wins the war... i dun think USS Enterprise will be considered... So nobody can boldly go where no man has gone before... du du duuuu..... du du du du duuu.......
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  5. #125

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    You are trying to be ridiculous or revisionist?

    Yes, they were stopped in PNG, by the ground actions of the Austrialian army and US Navy (Battle of Coral Sea) that basically crippled the Japanese fleet and stopped the invasion of AU. However, it took the combined Allied forces, most Americans to push the Japanese from PNG, back out the Phillipines and Island hopping to occupy back Okinawa.

    Publicity? The Battle for Okinawa costed so much that it is quite scary to think what the cost would be in terms of lives if the Allied forces were to attack the main land.


    To me, the two bombs basically saved more lives in the end, rather than for "Publicity"
    Actually after the war, the Okinawas expressed great anger at the Japanese Government which lingers on till today. They felt betrayed at how they were asked to fight to the death against the "gaijin invaders" and not told the truth about the Americans. As the Okinawan islands were the last ring of defence before the allies made landfall on the main Japanese islands, the Okinawans were told that the Americans were monsters that will kill and eat babies and rape any women they see. They were basically also left by the Japanese government as a human shield against the invasion. What happened was mass sucide attacks by the Okinawans and also mass sucides by civilians. Babies thrown over cliffs followed by their mothers, entire classes of school girls singing the Japanese National Song and then jumping over the cliff. Scenes like this were repeated all over Okinawa and it shocked the American pysche as much as the scenes of soldiers running out of bunkers covered in flames and screaming.

    Geographically Okinawa was a seperate entity from Japan and its people are racially different from the Japanese people. They were annexed by Japan and assimilated into the nation. Karate was born in Okinawa because the Japanese fearing rebellions banned all possbile weapons including hoes and farming appratus hence the Okinawans developed Karate or "empty hand"

    Till today some verteran Okinawans would say "I AM OKINAWAN NOT JAPANESE". I was in Japan and it was the anniversary of WW2 and there were programs on Okinawa with footage taken by American troops of girls jumping over cliffs. It was totally uncensored and shocking.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    I'm sure the two examples you brought up is with the acquiesence of the Emperor. No doubt. However, it is like President Kennedy and President Johnson were led to start and continue the Vietnam war and they were hardly "worshipped" by the American people. No, there is no need for absolute (or near) power to start a war. But as they said about the best laid plans by mice and men, things have a way of taking a life of its own. See Iraq as a prime example...
    I don't disagree, but that does not meant that the emperor did not approve of the invasion. The full-scale(1937-1945) sino-japanese war started when military generals promise to the emperor that they would complete the takeover of China within 3 months, before the emperor agreed to the invasion.

  7. #127
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by user111
    is that place still radioactive?
    Sad to disappoint u, no.

    I was in Hiroshima for my 2nd trip and was a little disappointed that I did not turn into Wolverine or Incredible Hulk.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    Actually after the war, the Okinawas expressed great anger at the Japanese Government which lingers on till today. They felt betrayed at how they were asked to fight to the death against the "gaijin invaders" and not told the truth about the Americans. As the Okinawan islands were the last ring of defence before the allies made landfall on the main Japanese islands, the Okinawans were told that the Americans were monsters that will kill and eat babies and rape any women they see. They were basically also left by the Japanese government as a human shield against the invasion. What happened was mass sucide attacks by the Okinawans and also mass sucides by civilians. Babies thrown over cliffs followed by their mothers, entire classes of school girls singing the Japanese National Song and then jumping over the cliff. Scenes like this were repeated all over Okinawa and it shocked the American pysche as much as the scenes of soldiers running out of bunkers covered in flames and screaming.

    Geographically Okinawa was a seperate entity from Japan and its people are racially different from the Japanese people. They were annexed by Japan and assimilated into the nation. Karate was born in Okinawa because the Japanese fearing rebellions banned all possbile weapons including hoes and farming appratus hence the Okinawans developed Karate or "empty hand"

    Till today some verteran Okinawans would say "I AM OKINAWAN NOT JAPANESE". I was in Japan and it was the anniversary of WW2 and there were programs on Okinawa with footage taken by American troops of girls jumping over cliffs. It was totally uncensored and shocking.
    Actually Okinawa is not called 'Okinawa' before 1879 but The Ryukyu Kingdom with a reigning King with their unique dynasties, culture and stuff like dat.

    For more info on Okinawa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyu_Kingdom

    And of cos on Yonaguni Island, there exists a mysterious city that's under the sea. Came across tons of info when I'm researching on my next backpack trip a few weeks ago.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  9. #129
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by tokrot
    Now tell me why aren't you in Iraq?
    They didn't send me any letter saying they need more people there leh?

  10. #130

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    You are trying to be ridiculous or revisionist?

    Yes, they were stopped in PNG, by the ground actions of the Austrialian army and US Navy (Battle of Coral Sea) that basically crippled the Japanese fleet and stopped the invasion of AU. However, it took the combined Allied forces, most Americans to push the Japanese from PNG, back out the Phillipines and Island hopping to occupy back Okinawa.

    Publicity? The Battle for Okinawa costed so much that it is quite scary to think what the cost would be in terms of lives if the Allied forces were to attack the main land.


    To me, the two bombs basically saved more lives in the end, rather than for "Publicity"
    Not necessarily... up until the recapture of PNG by the Allies, the Japanese were on the backfoot. Their supply lines crippled. The push back all the way through to the Phillipenes was as a result of the critical defeats handed to the Japanese in PNG and the Coral Sea.

    It was always going to be a different story trying to storm mainland Japan... Especially with their supply lines back in check. But the fact still remains that the two nuclear bombs were overkill by the Americans - with the push back to Japan, their expanionist dreams HAD been thwarted. An argument can be launched to say that without the bomb they may have tried again but I doubt it.

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by buckwheat
    Not necessarily... up until the recapture of PNG by the Allies, the Japanese were on the backfoot. Their supply lines crippled. The push back all the way through to the Phillipenes was as a result of the critical defeats handed to the Japanese in PNG and the Coral Sea.
    Revisionist...
    Although the Japanese were stretched, they were no means over stretched as they had planned the invasion of AU. If 4 weeks later, had the Americans lost the Battle of Midway, there would be no American presences in the Pacific for the next 3 years. If they had not broken the Japanese encryption (aka Magic) or had the Japanese changed their keys, the Americans would not have known about the plans for Midway nor found where Yamamoto was to be and assasinated him.

    From my link: "In early 1942, having conquered nearly all of Southeast Asia in just a few months, Imperial Japan was at the apex of its power." Apex... peak, hardly "After the Japanese defeat in PNG they were on the boarder line of surrender anyway." like what you said. 3 years from Battle of Coral sea until Okinawa can be considered as "boarder (sic) line of surrender"

    Without Magic, the Americans would not have such a quick advantage in the Pacific.

    Quote Originally Posted by buckwheat
    It was always going to be a different story trying to storm mainland Japan... Especially with their supply lines back in check. But the fact still remains that the two nuclear bombs were overkill by the Americans - with the push back to Japan, their expanionist dreams HAD been thwarted. An argument can be launched to say that without the bomb they may have tried again but I doubt it.
    "expanionist dreams HAD been thwarted" ? They still occupy Singapore, Vietnam, China and up to the Korean Peninsula. Hardly a small area of occupation. The attack on the Japan mainland was basically to end the war. Without the bombs,the Allied forces would have to attack by sea landing. As many references have been given here, at least 150,000 military casualties on the Allied Forces, and what about the Japanese people, both civilian and military?

    The bombs were to awe the Japanese into submission. Overkill? What can you suggest that would have the Japanese unconditionally surrendered in a short time with less casualties?

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    Revisionist...
    Although the Japanese were stretched, they were no means over stretched as they had planned the invasion of AU. If 4 weeks later, had the Americans lost the Battle of Midway, there would be no American presences in the Pacific for the next 3 years. If they had not broken the Japanese encryption (aka Magic) or had the Japanese changed their keys, the Americans would not have known about the plans for Midway nor found where Yamamoto was to be and assasinated him.

    From my link: "In early 1942, having conquered nearly all of Southeast Asia in just a few months, Imperial Japan was at the apex of its power." Apex... peak, hardly "After the Japanese defeat in PNG they were on the boarder line of surrender anyway." like what you said. 3 years from Battle of Coral sea until Okinawa can be considered as "boarder (sic) line of surrender"

    Without Magic, the Americans would not have such a quick advantage in the Pacific.


    "expanionist dreams HAD been thwarted" ? They still occupy Singapore, Vietnam, China and up to the Korean Peninsula. Hardly a small area of occupation. The attack on the Japan mainland was basically to end the war. Without the bombs,the Allied forces would have to attack by sea landing. As many references have been given here, at least 150,000 military casualties on the Allied Forces, and what about the Japanese people, both civilian and military?

    The bombs were to awe the Japanese into submission. Overkill? What can you suggest that would have the Japanese unconditionally surrendered in a short time with less casualties?
    Well Said

  13. #133
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    "expanionist dreams HAD been thwarted" ? They still occupy Singapore, Vietnam, China and up to the Korean Peninsula. Hardly a small area of occupation. The attack on the Japan mainland was basically to end the war. Without the bombs,the Allied forces would have to attack by sea landing. As many references have been given here, at least 150,000 military casualties on the Allied Forces, and what about the Japanese people, both civilian and military?
    Not 150,000. At least one million casualties on the Allied side and millions on the Japanese - civilians and military.

  14. #134

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by kit_fisto View Post
    Even if they didn;t use the A bomb, the Jap will surrender anyway. They've already lost Iwo Jima, and the Americans are preparing to invade mainland Japan. Those fighting in Europe are preparing to begin training to invade Japan when they suddenly dropped the A bomb. Its only a matter of time.
    More life would be lost if they do not surrender earlier. It is a question of time.

    History tells us that no country can sustain a prolong war. It will have to stop. Again the question is 'WHEN'?

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