View Poll Results: Is it necessary to use Atomic Bomb against Japan ?

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  • Yes, Japan will surrender earlier

    56 63.64%
  • No, Japan will surrender anyway

    28 31.82%
  • Not sure

    4 4.55%
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Thread: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

  1. #101
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Ok guys, dun OT too much, ok.

    Back to Atomic issue, actually there is rumours that the 3rd Bomb is on the way, but the Japs sub sank the American Cruiser on the way which suppose to deliver the bomb to American airbase.
    Last edited by King Tiger; 24th January 2006 at 04:04 PM.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Erm... I suppose the 1 million Jews gassed are not included in ur numbers? Or are they?
    Sorry, I don't mean that.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    The troops that did the rape and murder in Nanking were not the civilians. Do not condemn a nation for war crimes. Same as the US marines who mistreated the Iraqis. Or those who cut off ears of their enemies to wear on their chests.... Why condemn an entire nation??

    How about the African slaves shipped to America before they gained freedom? Roots anyone??
    Wah, Roots. I was a little boy then and couldn't even follow half the shite of what the show was trying to tell. Too cheem.

    Well, its war, rape and looting is a "symbolic" act of telling the natives that the new victor has gained "ownership" of this land by striking fear in them. It had happened in many many wars, just that this one is more "documented" than many others.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    if the target is to make the Japanese to surender, why no drop the bomb in Tokyo?

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by litefoot
    Wah, Roots. I was a little boy then and couldn't even follow half the shite of what the show was trying to tell. Too cheem.

    Well, its war, rape and looting is a "symbolic" act of telling the natives that the new victor has gained "ownership" of this land by striking fear in them. It had happened in many many wars, just that this one is more "documented" than many others.
    Think history is forged by War, Occupation & Sex...

    so when one country wage war, one country gets occupied, one country gets flooded with seamen...

    u can stop 1, but u can't stop all the barbarians...
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  6. #106
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by popeye
    if the target is to make the Japanese to surender, why no drop the bomb in Tokyo?
    think somebody explained...

    but if only want to scare them into surrendering... y dun they drop the bomb at hokkaido or some other remote parts?
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  7. #107

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Some scholars explain the unprecendented actions of the Japanese in their kamikaze attacks and policy of non surrender as attributed to the Japanese belief in their Emperor being a living God. Due to their isolation from the rest of the world, they have a unique mindset and pysche different from that of the rest of the world. Hence an unconditional surrender and the abolishment of the Monarchy as stated in the terms of Surrender by the Americans was to the Japanese an act against their whole way of life. Its like having a holy war in which the Christians/Jews/Muslims etc etc are told to surrender and to say that their God is not real and is fake and they have to stop practising their religion. Put a person in that situation and faith will take over making him or her fight to the death.....

  8. #108
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    As for Tokyo, they specifically didn't want to do that. If they had killed the generals and the Emperor, who will surrender the country? They would then need to pacify the entire country by occupying it. Contrast this with Iraq where they dismantled the military, police and government to their astonishment, Iraq teethers on anarchy, and guerilla warfare, verses in Japan where there was little or no armed resistance to the Americans.
    I beg to differ. The Japanese's loyalty was 100% under the emperor. They might form small factions but never the same intensity under others, as much as their demi-god, emperor. Certainly, no one else in command then will be able to convince the soldiers to do a sucide bid against the Americans. That's why they are not willing to risk the emperor's life by surrendering.

    The Iraqis' allegiance is to the way religion is taught to them, not Saddam.
    Last edited by Hommie; 24th January 2006 at 05:35 PM.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger
    Ok guys, dun OT too much, ok.

    Back to Atomic issue, actually there is rumours that the 3rd Bomb is on the way, but the Japs sub sank the American Cruiser on the way which suppose to deliver the bomb to American airbase.

    Err. It was the US curiser Indianapolis that deliver the first bomb "Little Boy" 's core that was sunk by the Jap Sub after they delivered the core. A crew of 1199 only 319 rescued, the rest become shark food or die from exposure in the cold ocean after attack by jap sub I-58. This ship menition in a famous screen play in the movie "JAWS". Where the gungho captain recap of this faithful event. Which he is one of the crew that survied to see their mates become shark food and it been the reason why he will not wear a life jacket. 1945 US have a total stock pile of eight bombs only four are ready before Sept 1945.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    I beg to differ. The Japanese's loyalty was 100% under the emperor. They might form small factions but never the same intensity under others, as much as their demi-god, emperor. Certainly, no one else in command then will be able to convince the soldiers to do a sucide bid against the Americans. That's why they are not willing to risk the emperor's life by surrendering.

    The Iraqis' allegiance is to the way religion is taught to them, not Saddam.
    I was referring to the question on why Tokyo was not bombed. Imagine that your demi-god was killed by the Americans. Would you quietly obey your captors or would most of the country try to kill the invaders who killed your demi-god?

    As for risking the Emperor's life, true, they are unwilling to risk it. However, the near-coup in preventing the Emperor from telling the people to surrender shows that at least one faction is more for their own power or at least, wanting to protect the Emperor rather than to obey him.

    In fact, the Emperor didn't have absolute power until 1869 after the Meiji Reformation shows that there are some that may talk the talk but not walk the walk.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    think somebody explained...

    but if only want to scare them into surrendering... y dun they drop the bomb at hokkaido or some other remote parts?
    Well, be surprised that one of the few cities enlisted includes Kokura (primary target for 2nd A-Bomb), Nagasaki (secondary target for 2nd A-Bomb), Hokkaido, Hiroshima, KYOTO, Tokyo, etc.

    Part of the reason why Hiroshima was chosen was its primarily flat land and military importance. Mitsubishi Heavy Industry factory was located there and churns out all the war tanks and stuff like dat for the Imperial Army.

    Kyoto was originally one of the targets but was dropped due to its historical significance. If it was struck instead of Hiroshima, I guess there wun be a book called "Memoirs of a Geisha" nw.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    I was referring to the question on why Tokyo was not bombed. Imagine that your demi-god was killed by the Americans. Would you quietly obey your captors or would most of the country try to kill the invaders who killed your demi-god?
    He's a demi-devil to me, haha. Well, it depends. Is the Japanese a society of ant/bee colony or a country of spiders? From the way they acted, risk their life for the emperor, I say its pretty clear.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    As for risking the Emperor's life, true, they are unwilling to risk it. However, the near-coup in preventing the Emperor from telling the people to surrender shows that at least one faction is more for their own power or at least, wanting to protect the Emperor rather than to obey him.
    The emperor is definitely not against the invasion as a more than a few hardcore militants convinced him of the dream of having the divine destiny of ruling China whom they believe the Chinese does not deserve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    In fact, the Emperor didn't have absolute power until 1869 after the Meiji Reformation shows that there are some that may talk the talk but not walk the walk.
    That didn't didn't stop "a few" militant from opening up a few settlements/colony at North-East China. I can't believe that the war with Korea in 1894 was without the knowledge of the emperor. Or that full scaled sino-japanese war was possible without his support.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Only reason the bomb was dropped was because the Americans had been showed up in the Pacific... if it wasn't for the unbelievable efforts of the Australians in PNG it may have been a different story.

    After the Japanese defeat in PNG they were on the boarder line of surrender anyway. Americans dropped the bomb for publicity and to appease their own public.

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    Some scholars explain the unprecendented actions of the Japanese in their kamikaze attacks and policy of non surrender as attributed to the Japanese belief in their Emperor being a living God. Due to their isolation from the rest of the world, they have a unique mindset and pysche different from that of the rest of the world. Hence an unconditional surrender and the abolishment of the Monarchy as stated in the terms of Surrender by the Americans was to the Japanese an act against their whole way of life. Its like having a holy war in which the Christians/Jews/Muslims etc etc are told to surrender and to say that their God is not real and is fake and they have to stop practising their religion. Put a person in that situation and faith will take over making him or her fight to the death.....
    Well, this proves that the white God won over the yellow God or any other God, right? Just kidding here only.
    Actually, the Americans really save the entire world during WWII. Imagine if they loose to Germans & Japan, what will it be like now?

  15. #115

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    is that place still radioactive?

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    The emperor is definitely not against the invasion as a more than a few hardcore militants convinced him of the dream of having the divine destiny of ruling China whom they believe the Chinese does not deserve.

    That didn't didn't stop "a few" militant from opening up a few settlements/colony at North-East China. I can't believe that the war with Korea in 1894 was without the knowledge of the emperor. Or that full scaled sino-japanese war was possible without his support.
    I'm sure the two examples you brought up is with the acquiesence of the Emperor. No doubt. However, it is like President Kennedy and President Johnson were led to start and continue the Vietnam war and they were hardly "worshipped" by the American people. No, there is no need for absolute (or near) power to start a war. But as they said about the best laid plans by mice and men, things have a way of taking a life of its own. See Iraq as a prime example...

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    Well, this proves that the white God won over the yellow God or any other God, right? Just kidding here only.
    Actually, the Americans really save the entire world during WWII. Imagine if they loose to Germans & Japan, what will it be like now?
    technically.. we would'nt know the difference...

    cos hitler will condemn the 'allied' and call themselves the 'rightful' ppl... and all of us would be speaking germans & japanese...

    we will be having the hitler statue everywhere, flags will be the nazi sign, they would throw stones at chinese (me) and jews, well... maybe those americans as well... we get to work as slaves...

    or maybe, we might be treated otherwise...

    maybe... lets think if there wasn't any japanese occupation, will we be still working for the british and only be coolie & such?
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  18. #118
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by buckwheat
    Only reason the bomb was dropped was because the Americans had been showed up in the Pacific... if it wasn't for the unbelievable efforts of the Australians in PNG it may have been a different story.

    After the Japanese defeat in PNG they were on the boarder line of surrender anyway. Americans dropped the bomb for publicity and to appease their own public.
    You are trying to be ridiculous or revisionist?

    Yes, they were stopped in PNG, by the ground actions of the Austrialian army and US Navy (Battle of Coral Sea) that basically crippled the Japanese fleet and stopped the invasion of AU. However, it took the combined Allied forces, most Americans to push the Japanese from PNG, back out the Phillipines and Island hopping to occupy back Okinawa.

    Publicity? The Battle for Okinawa costed so much that it is quite scary to think what the cost would be in terms of lives if the Allied forces were to attack the main land.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia link on Battle for Okinawa
    ...the civilian losses in the battle were at least 150,000. American losses were over 72,000 casualties, of whom 18,900 were killed or missing, over twice the number killed at Iwo Jima and Guadalcanal combined. Several thousand soldiers who died indirectly (from wounds and other causes), at a later date, are not included. About a third of the civilian population of the island in spring, 1945 were killed. There were about 100,000 Japanese soldiers killed and 7,000 captured.
    To me, the two bombs basically saved more lives in the end, rather than for "Publicity"
    Last edited by Watcher; 25th January 2006 at 12:58 AM.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    technically.. we would'nt know the difference...

    cos hitler will condemn the 'allied' and call themselves the 'rightful' ppl... and all of us would be speaking germans & japanese...

    we will be having the hitler statue everywhere, flags will be the nazi sign, they would throw stones at chinese (me) and jews, well... maybe those americans as well... we get to work as slaves...

    or maybe, we might be treated otherwise...

    maybe... lets think if there wasn't any japanese occupation, will we be still working for the british and only be coolie & such?
    Well, I guest we own our lifes to the Americans man! Hee...hee.... I will volunteer if happens that if there's another big war (which I hardly think so) arise & America need people to join in the war. No hesitation man! Provided I still can run then....

  20. #120

    Talking Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    Well, I guest we own our lifes to the Americans man! Hee...hee.... I will volunteer if happens that if there's another big war (which I hardly think so) arise & America need people to join in the war. No hesitation man! Provided I still can run then....

    Now tell me why aren't you in Iraq?

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