View Poll Results: Is it necessary to use Atomic Bomb against Japan ?

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  • Yes, Japan will surrender earlier

    56 63.64%
  • No, Japan will surrender anyway

    28 31.82%
  • Not sure

    4 4.55%
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Thread: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Just saw discovery channel War In Color: America at war this morning at 7am... Roosevelt was giving a speech to motivate the American for war against Germany, Italy and Japan in WW2. Basically, he said only those who caused the war would be punished and the innocent civilians would be spared.... Well.... guess that's how you motivate the masses.... that you are doing something right.

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    Just saw discovery channel War In Color: America at war this morning at 7am... Roosevelt was giving a speech to motivate the American for war against Germany, Italy and Japan in WW2. Basically, he said only those who caused the war would be punished and the innocent civilians would be spared.... Well.... guess that's how you motivate the masses.... that you are doing something right.
    I guess all of them should just turn around & shoot anybody who is superior... den all thats left are the ptes...
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  3. #83
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30
    another image forever imprinted on me was a B&W photo my teacher in Primary 5 or 6, showed us. I don't know why she did that but I will forever remember a river FILLED with corpse. The whole river is like filled with dead bodies. You know why?
    I wonder why she didn't show you the picture of Japanese soldiers throwing up babies to impale on their bayonet? Or picture the winner of the fastest hundred victims decapitation game hosted by the Japanese army?

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm
    You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Matt 24:5-8
    Well, personally short of the religious pep talk in the Book of Revelations (dun dismiss me as another pure athiest), at the rate everything is going, Earth would be blown to a zillion pieces before God descends to form the '2nd Heaven'.

    Well, dat's my belief. There's perhaps some higher power orchestrating the events we see. But running in contrary to religious belief and most religious ppl (well, I feel its always good to hold onto a shiny spot called 'hope'. After all I hold onto it whenever Toto Jackpot Draw is coming), its Mankind that's orchestrating the events leading us all to the path of no return.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    I wonder why she didn't show you the picture of Japanese soldiers throwing up babies to impale on their bayonet? Or picture the winner of the fastest hundred victims decapitation game hosted by the Japanese army?
    So I guess u're saying that the Japanese deserved the power of the atomic death hand unleashed twice on them?
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    I wonder why she didn't show you the picture of Japanese soldiers throwing up babies to impale on their bayonet? Or picture the winner of the fastest hundred victims decapitation game hosted by the Japanese army?
    Anyway, what goes around comes around...

    they go killing other ppl's children, raping ppl's wife, then others will go their country & do the same to them... the only thing is that, those ppl who ought to have their childrens' killed & wifes' raped should actually be those who instigated the war...

    sometimes i feel that at that moment in time, good, bad, conscience, everything was thrown out the window... its just primal rage... who knows what will happen in the next minute, so they just enjoy the moment... if they die, at least they did have their fun... if they don't, they din even know they will have punishment... sad but true fact...

    in war, i dun kill u, mean u kill me, its only in those movies where u see ppl act so compassionate... in truth, it just depends u wanna survive, or end the game yourself... there is so many stories, and nobody know whats truth, whats not...
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  7. #87

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Well, dat's my belief. There's perhaps some higher power orchestrating the events we see. But running in contrary to religious belief and most religious ppl (well, I feel its always good to hold onto a shiny spot called 'hope'. After all I hold onto it whenever Toto Jackpot Draw is coming), its Mankind that's orchestrating the events leading us all to the path of no return.
    Hoping in Hope itself is like a drowning man holding to straw
    Paradigm, 2006

    Mankind ... interesting though I believe that largely we are just being our natural self, doing what we naturally want. We are not actively planning (orchestrating) it but in our lives and actions, we somehow or other do it, cos it is our "sinful nature".

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    So I guess u're saying that the Japanese deserved the power of the atomic death hand unleashed twice on them?
    IMO, there is nothing to "deserved" or not. If the Japanese had unconditionally surrendered after Okinawa, it would have been averted. But of course, the Japanese didn't understand the possible consequence of their actions so...

    The videos of the baby spearing and the head chopping is to provide a balance view when you show the rivers of dead people. The Japanese are hardly innocent of the issues that they have cause. Yea shall reap what yea have sown

    As for "history is written by winners" comments, China is not a winner in WWII. Far from it. But the Rape of Nanjing and the Japanese bio-warfare experiments with Chinese POW are all facts.
    Last edited by Watcher; 24th January 2006 at 11:23 AM.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    So I guess u're saying that the Japanese deserved the power of the atomic death hand unleashed twice on them?
    So you meant that the chinese in Nanjing and Singapore deserved that on them?

  10. #90

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    So I guess u're saying that the Japanese deserved the power of the atomic death hand unleashed twice on them?
    Guess that the best way I can put it is that they brought it upon themselves. There was no need for that in the first place if there was no aggression on their part.

    I do not say that the people in Nanking or our grandparents brought it upon themselves but since it has happened, they fought the aggression as hard as they could, the best they could.

    If other countries has some thoughts over Singapore, I guess that we would give them a hard time as well.

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    The troops that did the rape and murder in Nanking were not the civilians. Do not condemn a nation for war crimes. Same as the US marines who mistreated the Iraqis. Or those who cut off ears of their enemies to wear on their chests.... Why condemn an entire nation??

    How about the African slaves shipped to America before they gained freedom? Roots anyone??

  12. #92

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    The troops that did the rape and murder in Nanking were not the civilians. Do not condemn a nation for war crimes. Same as the US marines who mistreated the Iraqis. Or those who cut off ears of their enemies to wear on their chests.... Why condemn an entire nation??

    How about the African slaves shipped to America before they gained freedom? Roots anyone??
    It was japanese high command gave the signal for their troops in Nanking to rape, loot and murder. It was an organised crime from the high command. It was totally different from what you said about US marines. It was only when the Japanese high command knew that the plunder has gone out of hand and discipline began to rot among the army then it issued to stop.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    So I guess u're saying that the Japanese deserved the power of the atomic death hand unleashed twice on them?
    Absolutely if you read much about their crimes.

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by tokrot
    It was japanese high command gave the signal for their troops in Nanking to rape, loot and murder. It was an organised crime from the high command. It was totally different from what you said about US marines. It was only when the Japanese high command knew that the plunder has gone out of hand and discipline began to rot among the army then it issued to stop.
    Unfortunately where war is concerned, assuming if High Command gave their green light to tell the men to 'enjoy themselves' it only takes 1 fustrated soldier to take it out on a civilian witnessed by 10 others and enuff to drive the entire Division of soldiers into a blood lust spree.

    Despite all our education of 'moral & civilities', when war comes, when everyone's involved, when one sees the blood of others flow, he would not stop till he sees his own blood flow. That's war for u.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  15. #95

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Personally what I read here are comments given by people who

    1) Didn't actually take part in the war
    2) Based their judgements on what they read in "Historically Correct" books and literature.
    3) Didn't even lived throught the war
    4) Didn't see with their own eyes what really happened

    I won't comment on if they are right or wrong because I don't want to judge as they are doing so.

    All I can say is that War is brutal and cruel, what we label as war crimes and crimes against humanity are deem acceptable during the thick of action as survival. When you shoot a POW, it's because it's practical thing to do. You don't have to waste valuable resources on feeding your enemy and also you don't have to waste manpower to guard them. Morality means nothing in war when the survival of your troops is at stake. What is most important is to kill or not be killed because your enemy won't be treating you kindly either.

    Whether or not the Japanese deserved it, well there is no right and wrong. They made a strategic move and they made mistakes and they paid for it. Of course they wouldn't have surrendered if they knew they had a chance to hold on. Any commander that had sense wouldn't, of course Singapore had a Brit Commander whom lost his guts and surrendered prematurely condemning Singapore to 3 and half years and misery.

    There are many theories on whether the USA made the right move to drop the atomic bomb on Japan. There are even rumours that the USA bent on revenge for Pearl Harbour was prepared to wipe Japan off the map with as many nuclear devices it could built. Surrender was no longer important. It was "WIPE THE JAPS OFF THE EARTH"

    With reference to the Amercians, just today a officer was given just a reprimand for killing an Iraqi General during interogration. Apparently his brutal method of questioning was approved by US high command.... so much for peace, democracy, freedom loving USA....

    What we can learn is WAR brings out the worse in us and makes us make decisions that are not morally correct in peacetime and can turn us into animals. Hence hope that we can learn our lesson and may the day come there are no more wars.
    Last edited by centuryegg; 24th January 2006 at 02:52 PM.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Unfortunately where war is concerned, assuming if High Command gave their green light to tell the men to 'enjoy themselves' it only takes 1 fustrated soldier to take it out on a civilian witnessed by 10 others and enuff to drive the entire Division of soldiers into a blood lust spree.

    Despite all our education of 'moral & civilities', when war comes, when everyone's involved, when one sees the blood of others flow, he would not stop till he sees his own blood flow. That's war for u.
    That's it unfortunately wrong. When an individual soldier commits rape, murder and loot. It is his action only. When it is the high command's order, it's an deliberate act of whole army. So this action in term represents the army perspective which in term represented Japan's action during time of war. So far, no country in modern world has done so much atrocities like Japan. Nazi Germany was not even close.

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by tokrot
    That's it unfortunately wrong. When an individual soldier commits rape, murder and loot. It is his action only. When it is the high command's order, it's an deliberate act of whole army. So this action in term represents the army perspective which in term represented Japan's action during time of war. So far, no country in modern world has done so much atrocities like Japan. Nazi Germany was not even close.
    Erm... I suppose the 1 million Jews gassed are not included in ur numbers? Or are they?
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    Personally what I read here are comments given by people who

    1) Didn't actually take part in the war
    2) Based their judgements on what they read in "Historically Correct" books and literature.
    3) Didn't even lived throught the war
    4) Didn't see with their own eyes what really happened

    I won't comment on if they are right or wrong because I don't want to judge as they are doing so.
    Ironically, you just did. Personally I don't see this topic could be as a pure military discussion or as unpolitical as King Tiger wanted it to be. Cause this is one war start strike too close to home.

    Ultimately the discussion of whether the second atom bomb was needed or not degenerate into whether the Japanese deserve it or not or who suffered the most. If I was the American who made the decision, I would drop just one, right into the heart of bustling Tokyo.

    Then again I think everyone know where my stance of the war is. So I cannot be considered neutral.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    [ So far, no country in modern world has done so much atrocities like Japan. Nazi Germany was not even close.[/QUOTE]

    I think you forgot about the Iraqis, the Serbs just to name a few.......

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    Ultimately the discussion of whether the second atom bomb was needed or not degenerate into whether the Japanese deserve it or not or who suffered the most. If I was the American who made the decision, I would drop just one, right into the heart of bustling Tokyo.
    The reason for the second bomb is push the Japanese to surrender. After the first bomb, there were a lot of resistance to that. Even after the 2nd bomb, there were some that tried to rebel against the Emperor. Like what centuryegg said, if there was a chance, they didn't want to give up. The second bomb was also to give the impression that the US had more of it (bluff).

    As for Tokyo, they specifically didn't want to do that. If they had killed the generals and the Emperor, who will surrender the country? They would then need to pacify the entire country by occupying it. Contrast this with Iraq where they dismantled the military, police and government to their astonishment, Iraq teethers on anarchy, and guerilla warfare, verses in Japan where there was little or no armed resistance to the Americans.

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