View Poll Results: Is it necessary to use Atomic Bomb against Japan ?

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  • Yes, Japan will surrender earlier

    56 63.64%
  • No, Japan will surrender anyway

    28 31.82%
  • Not sure

    4 4.55%
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Thread: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Let me go through point by point

    1) There was no reason to bomb the two cities previously as they do not have war industry there. The bomb there was for a lack of a better word, a terror weapon, that is used to strike fear

    2) After the first bomb, the war ministry contemplated it. However, they would want to retain their military machines,etc. Furthermore, there was strong resistance to it. The second bomb sealed the fact. Like singscott said, there was even a coup to prevent the Emperor to tell the people.

    3) It IS a known fact. The links I had previously posted had the facts there.

    4) Although the military was reluctant to use it, they only asked Eisenhower, not MacArthur. Read the links I had provided previously instead of books, they are more exhaustive and in my view, balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30
    Actually,

    I have a 400+ pages book that deal solely on the decision to use the bomb. You guys should do some reading on this as it was rather fascinating subject. I bought the book in Singapore after my trip to hiroshima.

    From what I can remember reading the book (written by ang mo) 5 years back, Interesting facts

    1) NOT a single bomb was drop on hirshima and nagasaki other than the BIG one. I guess for scientific reasons. Just an experiment of the effects of the bomb. The subjects were kept pristine.

    2) Japan was already on the verge of surrender. They were desperate to surrender. This is a FACT. The only point in contention was "unconditional" surrender. The Japanese wanted reassurance that the emperor will be safe.

    3) as mentioned by someone, Russia was a MAJOR factor in the war. It is commonly accepted I think by historians that the atomic bombs were not used to save American lives. It is to make sure US win the war b4 the Russian entered the pacific front. It is amazing that not many people know of this fact.

    4) There were MANY QUOTES by MANY military commanders that the atomic bomb is NOT necessary to win the war nor to save "many" lives. The biggest proponent for the bomb was a politician, some minister of state. forgot his name.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    So the atomic weapons did usher in a 'peaceful era'? One that of an uneasy peace?
    Uneasy peace simply because of spys and traitors who let the atomic weapons go into the russians and Chinese hands.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by rueyloon
    I travelled to Hiroshima this year, and after the trip, it perked my interest and I read abit more about it when I came back, I came across the points that Wind30 pointed out. The main one was that Japan was ready to surrender, but what the allies wanted was an unconditional surrender. Even with the surrender, one of the condition the Japanese asked for was for the Emperor to remain in power as before, but the allies was not willing to compromise with that or any conditions. If you are going to Japan/Tokyo, I suggest you visit to the Yasukuni shrine, there is a WAR museum there. They give their reasons for the war and their version of it. They claimed that they were forced to attack America due to some policies/situation of that time. Many people would balk at the reasons/stories that you can read there, but rememeber history is written by the victor, the truth is probably in the middle.
    Don't forget, China was never a colony that needed to be "liberated". What had happened in Nanking with more than 100,000 civillians dead in the hands of the invading Japanese? They were being isolated because of these actions that had been going on since the 1930s, so frankly, who is to be blamed for that?

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by redstorm
    I guess dropping the two atomic bombs were the lesser of the two evils - the other being the invasion of Japan where allies' casualties was projected at 1 million while the Japanese casualties including civilians could run into millions. Another fact that tilted in the favour of the two bombs were the readiness of the Red Army to go into the Pacific theatre after the surrender of Nazi Germany. SHould this happen, Japan could ended up being split into two just like post war Germany.
    You got that right. Roosevelt never trusted Stalin; it was just a marriage of convenience and the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" stuff...

    The Cold War, Vietnam with the Domino theory was because of Communism.

  5. #65
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Japan is a small island country (as compared to others that are fighting it)..

    It's putting itself up against the Big Powers of the world then.

    But UK was already very badly hurt, having to defend its mainland against Axis Germany, also on the offensive against it. Not to mention defending it's colonies like Hong Kong, Malaya and Singapore.

    But interesting to note that less than a few weeks after USSR declared war on Japan, it surrendered.

    Since Germany surrendered, all the artillery was redirected against Japan...

    Jap would surrender sooner or later. How long can one country hold up against so many (lazy to count how many Allieds).

    A-bomb shortened the war, which Jap is sure to surrender sooner or later.


    -Peace-

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30
    another image forever imprinted on me was a B&W photo my teacher in Primary 5 or 6, showed us. I don't know why she did that but I will forever remember a river FILLED with corpse. The whole river is like filled with dead bodies. You know why?



    Many people did not die immediately from the burns, they all tried to jump into the river to escape from the "burns". So they all died in the river. dunno why the teacher showed a primary class such photos

    That was the reason why for my first trip to Japan, I made a detour down to hiroshima. Hiroshima was REALLY a peaceful place when I went in 1995/6. I liked it better than kyoto and tokyo.
    U'd seen the photos too huh?

    Ppl made their way to the rivers and pools crying, "Mizu... mizu..." and when they jumped in to drink the water was so bitter that none could stomach it, more crawled to rivers and jumped in on top of another and so on and so on until it became a river of bodies....

    The Shadow of a man who was sitting by the stairs left his imprint at ground zero...

    I guess u'd seen all these. Sad huh?
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  7. #67

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    War in itself is inhumane. If I were ever to go to war in whatever capacity, however repulsive it may be, I like to have the biggest gun and the largest bomb by my side at my disposal.

    Vietnam was a mess, and the American did not learn their lesson well, now they are in Iraq. The American doctrine in Vietnam was never to win an outright victory. They were looking to maintain the status quo of a north and south Vietnam. This north south or east west division, was a by product of the cold war.
    Hmmm, strange, thought that the Viet War ended in 1975 and the Cold War started in the 1980s ... how could something in the past being a result of somthing of the future ... or is my history right?

  8. #68

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    U'd seen the photos too huh?

    Ppl made their way to the rivers and pools crying, "Mizu... mizu..." and when they jumped in to drink the water was so bitter that none could stomach it, more crawled to rivers and jumped in on top of another and so on and so on until it became a river of bodies....

    The Shadow of a man who was sitting by the stairs left his imprint at ground zero...

    I guess u'd seen all these. Sad huh?
    I was at Nagasaki 2 yrs ago, reading the exhibits and viewing the photos. I cannot say that I dun feel sorry for the great loss of lives but at the same time, it was the country that brought this upon the people.

    Sad, in time of wars, it's the people who suffer most. But most leaders starts war w/o concern about the effects on the people and the economy. In their eyes, it's only the terrority to be gained, the resources under your control etc etc ...

    So I hope that history has taught us a valuable lesson; that war is a costly affair. Let us learn from the mistake of others.

    However, I believe that we have not seen the last of the wars. Man will continue to start wars and people will continue to die from wars ...

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm
    However, I believe that we have not seen the last of the wars. Man will continue to start wars and people will continue to die from wars ...
    And that is the sad truth.

    ../azul123

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm
    I was at Nagasaki 2 yrs ago, reading the exhibits and viewing the photos. I cannot say that I dun feel sorry for the great loss of lives but at the same time, it was the country that brought this upon the people.

    Sad, in time of wars, it's the people who suffer most. But most leaders starts war w/o concern about the effects on the people and the economy. In their eyes, it's only the terrority to be gained, the resources under your control etc etc ...

    So I hope that history has taught us a valuable lesson; that war is a costly affair. Let us learn from the mistake of others.

    However, I believe that we have not seen the last of the wars. Man will continue to start wars and people will continue to die from wars ...
    More oft den not, its not the country that brought the demise of the ppl. Its the leaders who lead the country and in retribution, the ppl get the punishment.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    More oft den not, its not the country that brought the demise of the ppl. Its the leaders who lead the country and in retribution, the ppl get the punishment.
    The power of the politics & politicians.

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm
    Hmmm, strange, thought that the Viet War ended in 1975 and the Cold War started in the 1980s ... how could something in the past being a result of somthing of the future ... or is my history right?
    Eh the Cold War started in the late 1940s. It lasted until 1991 when Mikhail Gorbachev was placed under house arrest while a coup was taking place which triggered the collapse of the Soviet Union.

    Wikipedia is your friend...

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    The power of the politics & politicians.
    In fact, all the wars started are political wars. Started by leaders of countries to further their goals. Some are started as a result of a fallout frm another and so on and so on.

    Sigh... crap. But as long as human beings walk the Earth, sadly, no peace will come. So in a very pessimistic tone I can say that there will never be such thing as Peace on Earth.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    In fact, all the wars started are political wars. Started by leaders of countries to further their goals. Some are started as a result of a fallout frm another and so on and so on.

    Sigh... crap. But as long as human beings walk the Earth, sadly, no peace will come. So in a very pessimistic tone I can say that there will never be such thing as Peace on Earth.
    There will be definite peace on earth after Armageddon is here. Hee...hee.....

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    History is written by the Victor and History is also altered by the Defeat.
    Who is right, who is wrong, all of us can judge by ourselves and knows the answer well.
    Regardless, I would consider World War II as one of the justifiable war that fought by Allies in great effort to end Hilter, Mussolini and the Imperialist expansion and harsh rule.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    For the Atomic Bomb and more advance nuclears that follows, it is a point of no return for the human race.
    But it also bring balance to the Force , during the Cold War period, there are no World War III (although it almost happn during the Cuba Missile Crisis).
    It is here to stay and will be part of human history forever.

    We only hopes that it would falls into the wrong hands.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by redstorm
    Another fact that tilted in the favour of the two bombs were the readiness of the Red Army to go into the Pacific theatre after the surrender of Nazi Germany. SHould this happen, Japan could ended up being split into two just like post war Germany.
    I doubt Russian have the naval capabilities to transport massive divisions over to mainland Japan.

    Although the Russian do occupy some islands in Northern Japan, they too encounter stiff resistance like the American have encounter in Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
    Last edited by King Tiger; 24th January 2006 at 01:11 AM.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    In fact, all the wars started are political wars. Started by leaders of countries to further their goals. Some are started as a result of a fallout frm another and so on and so on.

    Sigh... crap. But as long as human beings walk the Earth, sadly, no peace will come. So in a very pessimistic tone I can say that there will never be such thing as Peace on Earth.

    You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Matt 24:5-8



    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    There will be definite peace on earth after Armageddon is here. Hee...hee.....

    Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

    He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." Rev 21:1-5

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger
    History is written by the Victor and History is also altered by the Defeat.
    Who is right, who is wrong, all of us can judge by ourselves and knows the answer well.
    Regardless, I would consider World War II as one of the justifiable war that fought by Allies in great effort to end Hilter, Mussolini and the Imperialist expansion and harsh rule.
    I am wondering... wat if... just wat if... Hitler is a very nice guy... and all that is said about him is distorted and in actual fact he is trying to help the whole of mankind...

    or maybe easier to relate... saddam hussein... (ok... i know... but den again... i never trust the TV...)
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Atomic Bombing 1945)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    I am wondering... wat if... just wat if... Hitler is a very nice guy... and all that is said about him is distorted and in actual fact he is trying to help the whole of mankind...

    or maybe easier to relate... saddam hussein... (ok... i know... but den again... i never trust the TV...)
    Hmmm, killing 6 million plus Jews for the sake of helping mankind. Starting war for the sake of helping mankind .... think that it is a stretch leh ...

    Like the Jap, maybe they were thinking of liberating SEA. But did it need liberation in the first place? Was life under the Jap better or worse than under the colonial govt? Largely, I think that our grandparents got a bad deal when they took over Singapore. So much for liberating SEA .... Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    If Hitler's idea of helping mankind is so that all of us would be subject to him, then, I think that his thinking is flawed and thank God that he was stopped as he was. Maybe Hilter managed to deceive himself into thinking that what he was doing was "for the good of mankind" but it does not change the fact that what he did was obviously not.

    I cannot imagine someone who has no guilt in ordering the death of 6 million plus of helpless Jews with A-bomb at his disposal. Maybe the next world war would be fought using sharpened bamboo poles.

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