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Thread: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

  1. #41

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by binbeto
    Just discussion guys..

    We can't be understanding all the eqp in the camera worlds... We are just stating what we know and assume.

    Might be wrong, might be right. Only by discussing then we know it all..
    Yes, that's how discussion should be viewed.

    It's for us to share what we know or read, exchange opinions and correct mistakes too.

    If all posts must be 100% correct, then few would be qualififed to post.

    Only those who think that they know best will take offence at others' guesses, deductions and opinions expressed even if it's explicitly expressed as opinion, guess or deduction.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    Who was the one who pretended to know alot now? Who was surprise that Panasonic OIS can't do panning? Who was the one who said waterfall must be >1 sec without taking into the waterall speed and flow size?
    did i ever say Panasonic OIS cannot do panning?

    I dont know everything but at least I wont say it when i am not sure

    Everything i post here are supported with facts and not base on guesses or deduction

    and i was just pointing out your error before everyone else believe that IS cannot do panning

    so ask yourself again, who was the one who preteneded to know a lot and mislead a lot?

    And here you goes again....do read carefully before you comment ok?

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...606#post184260
    Last edited by Wai; 23rd January 2006 at 01:50 AM.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    i've heard that canon S2 does panning well but i haven't seen any pictures yet so can't really tell is it better than FZ5.

    but i do know is under the manual of FZ5,
    -when the subject moves slowly and tracking speed is slow.
    -the background cannot be recorded dynamically.

    when i test out the camera,it is the foreground that is blur,subject looks okay,background doesn't seem blur all at 1X zoom.
    anyway for that price,can't really expect FZ5 to be on par with S2,just have to work around the problem.
    Last edited by Simon_84; 23rd January 2006 at 01:56 AM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Wai
    did i ever say Panasonic OIS cannot do panning?

    I dont know everything but at least I wont say it when i am not sure

    Everything i post here are supported with facts and not base on guesses or deduction

    and i was just pointing out your error before everyone else believe that IS cannot do panning

    so ask yourself again, who was the one who preteneded to know a lot and mislead a lot?

    And here you goes again....do read carefully before you comment ok?

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...606#post184260

    How can stating the "my guess" or "the above are just my deductions" be construed as saying that I know and try to mislead others?

    People with a neutral mind can see that I was not saying that I know the facts but making my guesses and deductions.

  5. #45

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84
    i've heard that canon S2 does panning well but i haven't seen any pictures yet so can't really tell is it better than FZ5.

    but i do know is under the manual of FZ5,
    -when the subject moves slowly and tracking speed is slow.
    -the background cannot be recorded dynamically.

    when i test out the camera,it is the foreground that is blur,subject looks okay,background doesn't seem blur all at 1X zoom.
    anyway for that price,can't really expect FZ5 to be on par with S2,just have to work around the problem.
    Thanks for the input.

  6. #46

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Wai
    And FYI, you should turn off IS/VR/AS when you are using tripod, else IS/VR/AS will behave unexpectedly and make the image more blur, so stop assuming that IS/VR/AS will help when u are shooting on tripod with strong wind and passing vehicles....blah blah blah

    In some circumstances, you can switch on IS when you mount on a tripod. Hope this help explains a little. http://www.cps.canon-europe.com/kb/d...jsp?faqId=1130

  7. #47
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by AhSeng
    In some circumstances, you can switch on IS when you mount on a tripod. Hope this help explains a little. http://www.cps.canon-europe.com/kb/d...jsp?faqId=1130
    Yup, i have mentioned that earlier here

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....1&postcount=22

    Only newer IS module will deactivate automatically when mounted on tripod, but not all.

    thanks for digging this article out, as canoneos.com was down earlier
    Last edited by Wai; 23rd January 2006 at 03:13 AM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    How can stating the "my guess" or "the above are just my deductions" be construed as saying that I know and try to mislead others?

    People with a neutral mind can see that I was not saying that I know the facts but making my guesses and deductions.
    Do you know how irresponsible you are for posting info that you are not sure? Even you have stated that it is your guess or deductions, many people still do not read carefully (and seems like you are one of those too?) and take it that what you have said is correct.

    If not because someone come in early to clarify your error, can you imagine how much damage there will be?

  9. #49

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by AhSeng
    In some circumstances, you can switch on IS when you mount on a tripod. Hope this help explains a little. http://www.cps.canon-europe.com/kb/d...jsp?faqId=1130
    Thanks for the additional info.

    It seems that still can turn on IS on some lenses if camera is mounted on a tripod.

    It shows that no one will have 100% information all the time. Even though I had done some basic researches on the various Image Stabilisers before I commented on the panning, I knew that I didn't have all the information but I mentioned it for further discussion and input from others who might know better and declared that it was my deduction from how Image Stabilisers work. Somehow I got miscontrued as trying to pretend that I know all and trying to mislead others.

    After reading the reason why IS should be turned off for some lenses when camera is mounted on tripod (the reason being that the camera sometimes over-compensate if it's shaking too little), I've this question : If the wind and vibration is such that the camera on a tripod and mounted with those older lens shake in a similar way as a person holding it with an unsteady pair of hands, then the IS should work as per expected normally if switched on?

  10. #50

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Wai
    Do you know how irresponsible you are for posting info that you are not sure? Even you have stated that it is your guess or deductions, many people still do not read carefully (and seems like you are one of those too?) and take it that what you have said is correct.

    If not because someone come in early to clarify your error, can you imagine how much damage there will be?
    To err is human.

    The IDE to CF converter was a genuine mistake which I thought I saw an IDE cable supposed to be attached one end to the CF and the other to the computer IDE connector. I was not trying to pretend that I know all but just trying to be helpful by also explaining what I thought it was.

    I was pretty sure of that until someone asked me to take a second look.

    I admit that I made a mistake but there was no intention to mislead and my conscience is clear.

    How much damage do u think I would've caused by that mistake? People go and buy the cable to connect their CF to their computer via the IDE connector on the motherboard?

    In light of the new info that IS can be turned on some lenses when using a tripod, there are therefore some misleading info in this post. What if some people bought the lenses but never turn on when they should have in some situations? Wai's subsequent post only said that IS is automaticall switched off but never mentioned that you can actually turn IS on for some lenses when using tripod :

    Quote Originally Posted by Wai
    For the sake of the rest of CSer here, go read up before you make your own assumptions. As suggested by the manual, IS/VR/AS can help up to only 2 stops, and for shooting waterfall, night landscapes..etc, you may need >1sec for decent effects, so nothing except a tripod can help you.

    And FYI, you should turn off IS/VR/AS when you are using tripod, else IS/VR/AS will behave unexpectedly and make the image more blur, so stop assuming that IS/VR/AS will help when u are shooting on tripod with strong wind and passing vehicles....blah blah blah
    Is it more misleading and more damaging than telling others that you shoot a big detailed moon with your coolpix 4500 camera without mentioning the other equipments you've used together to take the picture? What if newbies rush out and grap a Coolpix 4500 after reading your post? http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....0&postcount=21

    Ask yourself, isn't it more responsible of you if you've also clearly stated what you've used together with your coolpix 4500. Is it responsible posting by leaving those imporant information out?

    In many professions, leaving out information which can reasonably be expected to be very critical for others to get the right picture is a very irresponsible behaviour. At least in the investment industry, such irresponsible behaviour (omission of important info deliberately (by test of reasonableness)) is a very clear and extremely serious violation of the code and standard of conduct and the person could be stripped off his designation and fired.

    It's not that I want to pick on them, I just want to show that to err is human and no one can be 100% correct all the time. So if the intention is not a bad one and it will not lead to serious damage, just forgive and forget. That is why I didn't pursue any of the above until wai repeatedly pointed to a mistake I'd made earlier.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 23rd January 2006 at 05:27 AM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    When I didn't know, I said that I didnt' know. I wouldn't have said it if I wanted to pretend that I know all and wanted to mislead :

    In addition, if I find any website which is relevant, I state that I read it from there and post the link as well. If I had wanted to pretend that I know all, I would just post as if those are my own experiences. In many of my posts, I've included relevant websites to indicate where I read it from. If I don't and was just expressing an opinion, there are many occassions which I used "I think", "I guess", "I deduce" or something similar.

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....6&postcount=32

    Dated 16th Jan 2006, just early last week :

    Don't ask a newbie like me who is also trying to find out. I only started learning Photoshop about 3 months ago.

    Ask those who have posted their beautifully detailed moon pictures.

    As far as I know (read from here previously : http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/lenstec5.htm ), mirror lenses are the "cheapo" versions of long focal length lenses because they use mirrors to simulate the long focal length and therefore the images formed are not only not as clear and sharp but also suffers from some defects.

    I tried to be helpful since no one replied directly after so long and so many replies but I stated clearly that I was making a guess of the FZ5 focus button :

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....59&postcount=9

    Dated 20th Jan 2006

    After so many replies telling you how and when they use it, still no one has given you the answer to your question.

    I don't own a FZ5 an d can only guess that it's probably the "focus lock" button.

    If my guess is correct that it’s a focus lock button, the main difference between locking focus by pressing the shutter release button half way and using the "focus lock" button is that the former locks both focus and exposure while the latter locks only the focus and you can adjust the exposure either manually or through auto exposure. They are similar in the sense that they both reduce focus lag by pre-focusing first and this is useful when timing is important. (such as taking pictures of fireworks and subjects in fast action).

    (In some cameras, through camera setting in the menu, you can set whether the button is locking focus or locking exposure.)

    In some situations, focus lock is used instead of the shutter release button because the light condition of the scene will change later. If you have pre-empted by pre-focusing through pressing the shutter release button half way and the light condition changes after that, the image captured will be under-exposed or over-exposed. A good example is taking pictures of fireworks : If you’ve pre-focused by pressing the shutter release button half way, both the focus and exposure in locked before the scene get brightened up significantly by the fireworks and therefore you will get grossly over-exposed fireworks captured. If the focus lock is used for pre-focusing instead, assuming the camera is set to some kind of auto exposure, the camera will only adjust the exposure by taking into account the fireworks lights which have appeared when the shutter release button is pressed.

    Do a search on all my posts and you'll get a better idea.

    I will let others to judge whether I tried to pretend that I know all and tried to mislead others.

    All the time, I have been trying to be helpful by sharing info, expressing opinions, guesses and deductions for further discussion which would lead to everyone becoming more knowledgeable. I cannot be expected to be correct in my guesses, deductions and opinions all the time as no one can have 100% full information and knowledge. Even for information, facts might have changed because I had read and learnt outdated info.

    If I had wanted to pretend to know all, then I would be a Post Count Whore trying to reply tersely to many posts already. If you have noticed, I tried to give a more detailed and, hopefully, easy to understand reply most of the time by verifying some info through some research. I must admit that, because I don't know all, I can't guarantee that it's 100% correct all the time. Nevertheless, I tried to ensure that the hit rate is much higher than the miss rate. In addition, I often state where I'm coming from if it's just guesses, deductions and opinions.

    Similarly, this thread has widened my photography knowledge because more information is being shared and passed down and I did some research on Image Stabiliser.

    Now I don't know whether it's my problem or wai's problem. Until I ascertain it, I think I should just refrain from posting anything except links to websites and asking questions instead of answering them. May be I should even think twice about that because I may still be construed as pretending to be a master of photography info links and questions and pretending to knows all the aforementioned links and relevant questions. Then to avoid any controversy, I should just simply be a quiet bystander and read what the pros and experts post.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 23rd January 2006 at 05:12 AM.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    Any idea why IS/VR/AS will behave unexpectedly and make the image more blur if shooting on tripod?
    it's because the IS/VR/AS (hereafter ref as IS for simplicity sake) works on the modelling of a camera shake. It will "anticipate" (or predict if you want to see it this way) the camera shake movement direction and input from the 3D accelerometer to form the final axis of compensation.

    So if we only have 1 input, "the prediction" and no input from the accelerometer, because it's mounted on the tripod, then the IS will react according to the "prediction" model which will result in the errorneous and unexpected behaviour of the IS.

    Different brands have different preception of camera shake and model this "prediction" differently.

    Why not get rid of the 'prediction' part and based compensation purely on the sensor? this will rid the problem on tripod right? well.. this is another field in control systems altogether. I'm no pro in control systems but just happen to know this tiny bit.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  13. #53
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by binbeto
    Just discussion guys..

    We can't be understanding all the eqp in the camera worlds... We are just stating what we know and assume.

    Might be wrong, might be right. Only by discussing then we know it all..

    agreed.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    If all posts must be 100% correct, then few would be qualififed to post.

    Only those who think that they know best will take offence at others' guesses, deductions and opinions expressed even if it's explicitly expressed as opinion, guess or deduction.
    Well said too!

  15. #55
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    I think "opinions, guesses or deductions" should be left to 'uncharted' areas of a subject. For example "I guess that if I turned on IS and rotated the camera along the axis parallel to the lens would render IS useless" No one or very little ppl has done it and i cannot find any details on this.

    However, if I posted "I guess battery life of the IS on tripod would last longer becos the lens auto turns IS off while on tripod and thus would not consume any battery" is wrong becos on the manual section entitled Tips on Using the Image Stabilizer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tips on Using the Image Stabilizer
    "Set the STABILIZER switch to OFF when you are taking pictures with a tripod. Even if the STABILIZER is set to ON, the IS function does not operate because the electronic circuits in the lens automatically detect that a tripod is being used. However because electrical power is still being supplied to the image stabilizer unit, batery life is roughly 20% shorter than it would be with the switch set to OFF."
    I don't own any IS lenses as well. But just 'happened' to 'stumble' on the above info from Yahoo!

    Although I have also "guessed" in the 2nd part. The truth is out there only if I bothered to research before posting.

    There was also another forumer that used his own deductions and guesses and got into a lot of trouble however, he quickly learnt his lessons.

    I guess it would be more responsible for us to do our research before posting out our deductions.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  16. #56
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Good info so far, even though temperature has raised a bit.

    Clockunder, you have raised a few good point in your post that I find beneficial.. Please continue to contribute as I can see you have spend time to write all these.. At 3am+?!!

    Wai, you have pointed out some grey/discrepancy in other info. Very useful for people like me who know nuts. To have someone in the know to correct some misinfo is good.

    Still wanna emphasize that this is just a discussion and all info shared is good.
    Hope this kind of discussion will go on..

  17. #57
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by binbeto
    Good info so far, even though temperature has raised a bit.

    Clockunder, you have raised a few good point in your post that I find beneficial.. Please continue to contribute as I can see you have spend time to write all these.. At 3am+?!!

    Wai, you have pointed out some grey/discrepancy in other info. Very useful for people like me who know nuts. To have someone in the know to correct some misinfo is good.

    Still wanna emphasize that this is just a discussion and all info shared is good.
    Hope this kind of discussion will go on..
    hehe... just wondering if you see the need for VR and noiseless high iso ccd to co exist?

  18. #58
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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Wai
    Go google or get one to try yourself.

    Quote from one of our moderators:

    Ignorance I have no problem with. It's those that pretend to know a lot who don't know a lot and mislead a lot that I take issue with.

    i tend to agree with wai as well.

  19. #59

    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by idor
    hehe... just wondering if you see the need for VR and noiseless high iso ccd to co exist?
    Of cos there is a need. VR doesn't means that you can stop action. it just compensates for your handshaking. If you have a slower lens with VR, and is required to shoot some action in low light where flash is out of range, this is where you can bump up the ISO and hopefully it will enable you to squeeze in a shot.

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    Default Re: VR/IS/OIS Vs ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by idor
    hehe... just wondering if you see the need for VR and noiseless high iso ccd to co exist?
    Hmm.. At the moment, I am actually more thinking that noiseless high iso might have save me some buck for having to get a VR lens. haa haa

    Of course if have both will be nice lah.. High ISO to freeze action and VR to prevent shake from my fumbling finger..

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