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Thread: Who are we? What are you?

  1. #81

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    What's that?
    Then its time for you to see the light and balance the force.

  2. #82
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    See, if I charge 5K for a wedding, and I only need to shoot one wedding, just only one wedding per month, and I still can get more than 50% of my month income from photography, even that I'm a taxi driver, so I still able call myself a PROFESSIONAL photographer, and charging PROFESSIONALLY. Why not?

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    See, if I charge 5K for a wedding, and I only need to shoot one wedding, just only one wedding per month, and I still can get more than 50% of my month income from photography, even that I'm a taxi drive, so I still able call myself a PROFESSIONAL photographer, and charging PROFESSIONALLY. Why not?
    so someone who pays you 5k for the wedding coverage is a PROFESSIONAL wedding couple?

  4. #84
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    so someone who pays you 5k for the wedding coverage is a PROFESSIONAL wedding couple?
    Maybe a doctor and a lawyer lor.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    I am inviting your opinions, slams or what not, please feel free to express your opinion, valid or not, please rage if you like, let it all out. Here is my beef!

    After living here in Singapore for going on 3 years, being a member of CS half that time, I have an observation that had been irritating me, but not until today, I read a thread, and it's the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    Why are so many people, who just got their hands on a D70, a 350D, 5D or whatever DSLR they got their hands on, will immediately claimed that they shoot professionally also. I wonder whether they know what it means, what it takes, and what it is all about.

    We all like to make some money on the side, and if you can make it with your hobby, I have no problem with it. But claiming that you are a professional just because you shoot one or two weddings a year, or did a botched up photoshoot for a catalog for the company you work for during the day and only got the job because your company is too cheap, or picked up a job here or there for peanuts, does not a professional photographer make.

    I personally am an amateur to the core, been shooting for ages, any of you who know what a breech lock FD lens is knows how long that is. I shot some weddings for my friend's wedding planning business way back with manual focusing cameras, but will never dream of calling myself a professional!

    Anyway. It's my opinion. Now as to which is the thread that got me going, well, you will juat have to go search.
    i'm curious...i would understand if a pro gets upset with these people since it will impact their ricebow, but as an amateur (me including), why would you care what they call themselves? if they want to call themselves professional photographers cos they make money out of it, so be it. if they think they are professionals in terms of skills and work ethics, so be it they will be exposed eventually if they are not.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    A rich one too
    A very small peanut!

  7. #87

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs
    i'm curious...i would understand if a pro gets upset with these people since it will impact their ricebow, but as an amateur (me including), why would you care what they call themselves? if they want to call themselves professional photographers cos they make money out of it, so be it. if they think they are professionals in terms of skills and work ethics, so be it they will be exposed eventually if they are not.
    Likewise... I'm puzzled in the same way, but didn't have the guts to say it before you did.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    What is the difference between a person that plays basket ball and a professional basket ball player ?

    One plays because he likes to.

    The other plays because he likes to and is so damn good at it that he is recognised as a professional and gets paid as such.

    I was going to use the word "thug" instead of basket ball player and
    "Professional Hit Man" instead of professional basket ball player,

    but held back

    No offence anyone
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    It doesn't? Damn... and I thought by saving up for a D2X I can be a PRO
    like paul?

  10. #90

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs
    i'm curious...i would understand if a pro gets upset with these people since it will impact their ricebow, but as an amateur (me including), why would you care what they call themselves? if they want to call themselves professional photographers cos they make money out of it, so be it. if they think they are professionals in terms of skills and work ethics, so be it they will be exposed eventually if they are not.
    shinken, you should be able to say anything that comes to your mind. No offense taken.

    I would say upset is a wrong description of my rath. Upset has a personal connotation. I am irritated by the fact that photographers who are not skilled and ill prepared, calling themselves professional, just becasue they bought a DSLR, and claimed to shoot this or that professionally. My biggest beef is these people, most of them can't take a picture to save their lives. But because they have a DSLR and did an event for peanuts, they claim to be professional.

    Now, even though I am a rank amateur, I do care about the overall standard of photography. The wannabe professional photographers is out there doing their best to lowering the standard, this is my beef.

    By the way, if the photographer is good, makes meaningful money (percent of income more so than absolute dollars and cents) with his or her crafts, of course, he or she is a professional photographers.
    Last edited by Deadpoet; 18th January 2006 at 11:14 AM.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  11. #91

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    shinken, you should be able to say anything that comes to your mind. No offense taken.

    I would say upset is a wrong description of my rath. Upset has a personal connotation. I am irritated by the fact that photographers who are not skilled and ill prepared, calling themselves professional, just becasue they bought a DSLR, and claimed to shoot this or that professionally. My biggest beef is these people, most of them can't take a picture to save their lives. But because they have a DSLR and did an event for peanuts, they claim to be professional.

    Now, even though I am a rank amateur, I do care about the overall standard of photography. The wannabe professional photographers is out there ldoing their best to owering the standard, this is my beef.

    By the way, if the photographer is good, makes meaningful money (percent of income more so than absolute dollars and cents) with his or her crafts, of course, he or she is a professional photographers.
    Thanks for the assurance

    Now that you've shed some light, I do feel a little "irritated" myself. Not that I'm a fraction as good as any of the "amateurs" here though. But I have to admit the way I write sometimes could have been interpreted as "know-it-all" when I wanted it to be well-meaning sharing. It's just that after being so tired from needing to be careful with how I say things during my "professional" full time work, I tend to be negligent about how I "speak" here. Thus, in fact, I might very likely be guilty of sounding like "I think I'm a pro" sometimes. The incognito cloak of the net does leave lots to interpretation I guess.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    shinken, you should be able to say anything that comes to your mind. No offense taken.

    I would say upset is a wrong description of my rath. Upset has a personal connotation. I am irritated by the fact that photographers who are not skilled and ill prepared, calling themselves professional, just becasue they bought a DSLR, and claimed to shoot this or that professionally. My biggest beef is these people, most of them can't take a picture to save their lives. But because they have a DSLR and did an event for peanuts, they claim to be professional.

    Now, even though I am a rank amateur, I do care about the overall standard of photography. The wannabe professional photographers is out there ldoing their best to owering the standard, this is my beef.

    By the way, if the photographer is good, makes meaningful money (percent of income more so than absolute dollars and cents) with his or her crafts, of course, he or she is a professional photographers.
    i can tell you are very passionate about your hobby and that is very good to know. but i think its pointless to get worked up over something beyond your control. ultimately is the quality of your own work that counts, not someone else's work.

  13. #93
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    The common believe in ClubSnap

    owning a

    D2X = pro
    D200 = semi pro
    D70s = aspiring pro

    owning any of these two is SUPER PRO

    owning all three is DIEHARD PRO

    Pick your choice, walk out from Cathy this afternoon with these cameras you can be a pro at no time.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    I would say upset is a wrong description of my rath. Upset has a personal connotation. I am irritated by the fact that photographers who are not skilled and ill prepared, calling themselves professional, just becasue they bought a DSLR, and claimed to shoot this or that professionally. My biggest beef is these people, most of them can't take a picture to save their lives. But because they have a DSLR and did an event for peanuts, they claim to be professional.
    You say you are irritated and yet not upset? Some contradiction there I suppose, since you are irritated by certain individuals which makes it somewhat personal. After all, this only serves to be a personal rant that is unlikely to resolve any issue for it has been brought up before in one form or another.

    Now, even though I am a rank amateur, I do care about the overall standard of photography. The wannabe professional photographers is out there ldoing their best to owering the standard, this is my beef.
    There is no reference "standard" for photography to be upheld. As an amatuer, perhaps one should be more concerned about yourself meeting your own standards rather than others. If you spot wanna-be pros around, just add them to your personal blacklist or share your personal blacklist with friends for "photogs to avoid" that would probably help abit.

    By the way, if the photographer is good, makes meaningful money (percent of income more so than absolute dollars and cents) with his or her crafts, of course, he or she is a professional photographers.
    Which brings us back to the crux of the issue. What happens when a photog by virtue of his networking skills is able to make a dominant percentage of his income through photography and yet is barely competent in his craft? He could very think of himself as being very good since he is raking in the $$$ and his clients are satisfied with his work.

    Without a standardized yardstick or regulatory body to "certify" a photographer, there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone from claiming to be anything whether you like it or not.

    Some guy feels he's pro, you absolutely don't think so, who can be the final arbiter of that?
    Until that can be answered, its just another rant.

  15. #95

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Zerstorer,

    When I meant personal, I meant something that is meaningful to me personally. Eventhough my raths were directed as some individual persons, I don't see that as a personal thing. We are mincing words.

    Standard, such a elusive thing. Even though there is no established standard, we as part of the community of photographers, here on CS, in Singapore and in the world, should still upheld a standard, whatever it may be.

    Now, you said that since I cannot lay down a set of standard, there can be no final arbitration of said standard, this is just another rant. But, if I did not bring this up, this discussion will never have happenned. Is this discussion a good thing? I will let the rest of the memebers decide. However, I will still do what I see is the right thing to do.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    max, you have a point. but that does not means many of wannabe professional photographers really have no business hawking their so call skill to potential customers/ What skill.

    Granted, some work hard, acquired the skills, learned the trade, and truly work their way up to become a professional. Too bad, this does not apply to most of the aspiring professionals.

    Like I said earlier, professional is one thing, how good that "pro" is, is another thing. I am sure you have met "pros" thats shoot totally crap, right? There's no lowering of "pro" standard, just alot of layers. There's always very good pros that get paid alot of money to shoot, and there'll always the cheap alternatives.
    Last edited by TrailsofLife; 18th January 2006 at 01:54 PM.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    The common believe in ClubSnap

    owning a

    D2X = pro
    D200 = semi pro
    D70s = aspiring pro

    owning any of these two is SUPER PRO

    owning all three is DIEHARD PRO

    Pick your choice, walk out from Cathy this afternoon with these cameras you can be a pro at no time.
    Sigh!

    Don't have any of these....................

  18. #98
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Sigh!

    Don't have any of these....................
    sorri, I not sure about canon stuff, if write sa la than will kena shoot.

    nevermind, you put your 8by10 sheet film holder on the table, everyone sure run far far away....

  19. #99
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Sigh!

    Don't have any of these....................
    btw, got laica also can, m or r also fine.

  20. #100

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    Zerstorer,

    When I meant personal, I meant something that is meaningful to me personally. Eventhough my raths were directed as some individual persons, I don't see that as a personal thing. We are mincing words.

    Standard, such a elusive thing. Even though there is no established standard, we as part of the community of photographers, here on CS, in Singapore and in the world, should still upheld a standard, whatever it may be.

    Now, you said that since I cannot lay down a set of standard, there can be no final arbitration of said standard, this is just another rant. But, if I did not bring this up, this discussion will never have happenned. Is this discussion a good thing? I will let the rest of the memebers decide. However, I will still do what I see is the right thing to do.
    Let me give an analogy. I think we should uphold the standard of English used. You have some glaring mistakes in the post above, but I won't bother to correct you, because it's up to you to improve yourself in this area. How I uphold the standard of English is to make sure I (personally) use grammatically correct (and correctly spelled) English.

    The same could apply to your interest in upholding the standard of photography in Clubsnap. Just show us photos of yours which you think are good, instead of denigrating what others choose to call themselves.

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