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Thread: Who are we? What are you?

  1. #181

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken
    So does posting his works justify DP's stand? DP's insistance not to post even more reinforces how he choses to maintain his stand on merely on one of "ranting" rather than "influencing", which arguments in CS tend to incline towards. And I respect that. Asking him to post to prove that he's right is totally beyond me. You mean DP would be right to say the wannabes are wrong if he shows great photos? Come on man. So Roy should show DP his pics in order to convince DP he's wrong?
    to put it simply yes why not... the same go for other
    Last edited by eow; 21st January 2006 at 09:29 AM.
    头可断,血可流,倩女不可不追求 carpe diem,when in doubt, hoot first,apologise later:p GALLERY

  2. #182

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow
    to put it simply yes why not... the same go for other
    Reason is because, being able to produce good works doesn't make one person any more right than he/she should be.

    I'll make it easier for you to understand. If (hypothetically) I can shoot better than you, doesn't entitle me to make the claim that my camera is better than yours.

    The same applies to photography and any other fields that involve intellectual discussions.

  3. #183

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    To my dear eow, first of all, nothing personal. (now I can rant and rave!)

    How mistaken you can be. My opinions and arguement will not be enhanced a bit even if my pictures are hanging in the best museums in the world, published on the covers of magazines, or admired by all the members here on CS.

    What I say here and how well I take pictures have nothing to do with each other. You think my critics will back off even if they like my pictures? They are not criticising my ability as a photographer. They merely disagree with me on what I said, which are very opinionated, or do not agree on my frequent sharp tongue, and perhaps the bluntness or my delivery.

    Now, got it? If not, I really have no idea how to get this through that impenetratable skull of yours.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  4. #184

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    that the prob i got impenetrable skull ,stubborn and a bit dyslexic
    convince me ...and i shall stand by yr side ..else why...
    头可断,血可流,倩女不可不追求 carpe diem,when in doubt, hoot first,apologise later:p GALLERY

  5. #185

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow
    that the prob i got impenetrable skull ,stubborn and a bit dyslexic
    convince me ...and i shall stand by yr side ..else why...
    Really, why? No need. If everyone on earth agrees with me, well that would really boost my already inflated ego but, the world will be a very boring place.

    You are entitled to your opinion, however misguided they might be. If you don't agree with me, even though deep down, you know I am right, fine with me, it's your opinion and your choice not to see the light.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  6. #186

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow
    that the prob i got impenetrable skull ,stubborn and a bit dyslexic
    convince me ...and i shall stand by yr side ..else why...
    The intent of an intellectual discussion may not always to be "right" or to "convince" others to adopt the same point of view. It could also be to "enhance" and to "enrich" through sharing of differenct perpectives.

    Isn't it tiring to want to "persuade" and "convince" others? I thought most of the discussion in this thread is pretty remarkable in the respect that (many) people here are capable of agreeing to disagree. That's respectable. End result for these people is not to be "right" or "win" the argument.

    Now those concepts would be difficult for me to simplify...

  7. #187
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow
    that the prob i got impenetrable skull ,stubborn and a bit dyslexic
    convince me ...and i shall stand by yr side ..else why...
    i really hate to ask this, but ...

    post a picture of yours in this thread and i'll decide whether to agree with you or not get it?

  8. #188

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    all this talk, means one thing: Singapore best-est-dest. World class photography hub to attract all the cheem cheem debating!

    worry about photography standards? go and shoot more lah!

  9. #189

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    i really hate to ask this, but ...

    post a picture of yours in this thread and i'll decide whether to agree with you or not get it?
    just click a search under my nick.. bro eikin
    Last edited by eow; 21st January 2006 at 10:42 AM.
    头可断,血可流,倩女不可不追求 carpe diem,when in doubt, hoot first,apologise later:p GALLERY

  10. #190
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    i really hate to ask this, but ...

    post a picture of yours in this thread and i'll decide whether to agree with you or not get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow
    just click a search under my nick.. bro eikin
    you are not reading me correctly

  11. #191

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    you are not reading me correctly
    it the same thing bro
    beside i 'm going out to practice my shooting now ciao
    Last edited by eow; 21st January 2006 at 11:52 AM.
    头可断,血可流,倩女不可不追求 carpe diem,when in doubt, hoot first,apologise later:p GALLERY

  12. #192
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow
    it the same thing bro
    beside i 'm going out to practice my shooting now ciao
    i see, your skull is indeed very thick. i'll try one last time.

    i'm not a good cook, but i am entitled to the criticising of the food you prepared as tasting horrible
    Last edited by eikin; 21st January 2006 at 04:32 PM.

  13. #193

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jemapela
    This is not at all surprising, and is very expected.

    To be realistic, and generally speaking, diploma holders would have limited capacity/proficiency to perform, especially when compared to higher qualified or higher experienced peers. This is true across all disciplines. Even degree holders have to learn on the job because whatever knowledge that was learnt in university is either too fundamental (to design/build/create/produce) anything fantastic, or else, just outdated.

    In my post, I included persons with a diploma of photography only because they have formally studied it. They may not be superb photographers.

    In fact, even degree holders may not be superb photographers themselves, and in reality, many aren't and many never will. Like everyone else, they may have a photography degree (which they can flash around and show off) but their transcripts may have a long list of grade E (the passing grade) for every subject.

    Here in Melbourne, I met one RMIT photography graduate who told me that he knew and heard of graduate peers who quit and flee the photography industry. Their crime was simply because they unskillfully screwed up a wedding job badly enough and know that they will never be able to easily recover their reputation (despite holding a recognised degree).
    Precisely my point and that has been my experience as well. Which brings us back to the very tough question.

    Who can "rightfully" claim himself to be a professional?

    a)By virtue of qualifications (insert all funny acronyms here....) even though his real life standard might be lacking?
    b)By virtue of income earned? even though his real life standard might be lacking?
    c)By virtue of the quality of his work. even though he may not have paper qualifications?
    d)Or does someone need to have qualifications, sizeable income earned and have exceptional ouput beyond that of the common wannabe to be worthy?

  14. #194

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    i see, your skull is indeed very thick. i'll try one last time.

    i'm not a good cook, but i am entitled to the criticising of the food you prepared as tasting horrible
    tks at least u bother to taste my horrible cooking
    头可断,血可流,倩女不可不追求 carpe diem,when in doubt, hoot first,apologise later:p GALLERY

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow
    tks at least u bother to taste my horrible cooking
    ah, now you've gone smarter. so you have no right to stop anyone from criticising your pictures even if they don't know how to take pictures

  16. #196

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ekin
    ah, now you've gone smarter. so you have no right to stop anyone from criticising your pictures even if they don't know how to take pictures
    nah it just yr taste bud my friend. diff people diff taste
    头可断,血可流,倩女不可不追求 carpe diem,when in doubt, hoot first,apologise later:p GALLERY

  17. #197

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstorer
    Precisely my point and that has been my experience as well. Which brings us back to the very tough question.

    Who can "rightfully" claim himself to be a professional?

    a)By virtue of qualifications (insert all funny acronyms here....) even though his real life standard might be lacking?
    b)By virtue of income earned? even though his real life standard might be lacking?
    c)By virtue of the quality of his work. even though he may not have paper qualifications?
    d)Or does someone need to have qualifications, sizeable income earned and have exceptional ouput beyond that of the common wannabe to be worthy?

    This is a multiple-choice question difficult to answer.

    Personally, I feel that the ones who fit any of the description/definition in the dictionary (differences in interpretation aside) can rightfully call themselves professionals. In that sense, I could be considered one although I almost always never call myself one.

    Whether or not they can perform to the high standards expected of them is an entirely different matter. I, or we, just have to give them the benefit of doubt.

    As an example, even professionals such as doctors and engineers make mistakes and cause fatalities but until they do, most people tend to assume/believe that professionals always know what they are doing.
    Last edited by Jemapela; 21st January 2006 at 10:56 PM.

  18. #198

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Today, I really have had a very bad day.

    First, when I was in a taxi to work, my colleauge called me as I was late for work and I casually remarked to him that taxi drivers these days usually drive dangerously. The taxi driver overhead it and said : “Show me how you can drive better than me before you criticise taxi drivers”.

    As I was walking towards the lifts in my office building after I had alighted from the taxi, I noticed that some of the decorative plants in the hall had wilted and I commented to the security guard that standard of upkeeping gardens is too low in S’pore. The gardener happened to be around, overheard what I said and then retorted : “Show me your garden and plants that you’re good in gardening before you criticise gardeners, OK!!!”.

    Then I found that 2 of the 4 lifts were still under repair since 2 days ago and so I commented to others who were also waiting for the lift that the repair was taking a long time. The technician overhead me and said to me : “ Then show me that you can repair faster before you comment on lift technicicans!!!”.

    During lunch time, I went with my colleagues to a Chinese restaurant. We found that the food wasn’t so nice and, from our numerous previous experience in eating at Chinese restaurants, one of my colleagues casually remarked that the standards of food in Chinese restaurant in S’pore wasn’t very good. The cook happened to be around and heard what we said, and confronted us : “Show me your cooking and prove that you’re a good cook before you rant!!!”.

    As I was walking with my colleague along Orchard Road after work, we passed by a busker singing and we stood there to listen for a while. A passerby commented to his friend that the singing by buskers in S’pore wasn’t really good. Another passerby overheard them and retorted : “You go down there and sing to prove to me that you can sing better before you open your mouth!!!”.

    Then we went to the Esplanade to watch a local dance performance. During the interlude, I commented that the performance wasn’t that good and the standards were much higher in the US and UK. A fellow audience overheard and responded to me : “Can you dance well? Show me that you can dance better than them before you express your negative opinion!!!”

    Later after the dance performance, I saw the dancers and their friends patting each other’s back and praising each other how well they’ve performed even though they had made some mistakes and fell onto the floor a few times accidentally. (Similar kind of scenes is often seen in the photo galleries).

    Then in the MRT on our way home, we overheard someone talking about the S-League. So my colleague said that S-League got no standards and I agreed. Another fellow passenger overheard us and said to us : “You two can play better meh? Show me that you can play better soccer before you comment. !!!”


    Lessons learnt ?:
    1)If have a bad opinion on something, keep quiet unless I can show them that I’m good in it and am better than them.
    2)If the other party is my friend, say something good and pat his back even if it’s actually a bad piece of work and even if I can’t really distinguish good from bad. This way, they will also pat my back in return when I show my work.

    In this way, everyone else is happy.

  19. #199

    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    Lessons learnt ?:
    1)If have a bad opinion on something, keep quiet unless I can show them that I’m good in it and am better than them.
    2)If the other party is my friend, say something good and pat his back even if it’s actually a bad piece of work and even if I can’t really distinguish good from bad. This way, they will also pat my back in return when I show my work.

    In this way, everyone else is happy.
    I tink you learn the wrong lesson liao... the correct lesson should be....

    For 1, "easier said then done"
    For 2, "understand the situation"
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  20. #200
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    Default Re: Who are we? What are you?

    depends on where d lesson is learnt.

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