D200 - Murky Low Contrast Colours?

[vince123123]

Just did a studio test of the D200 - funny thing is I find that the colours appear somewhat unsaturated/low contrast/murky. At first I thought it was the LCD - but when I went back to view on the monitor, it seems that way to me.

Here's a test shot on the D200 without any significant post processing save resizing:



And here's a comparison on my D100..



Any advice will be appreciated.

[TMC]

check color profile and settings on the camera. Just wondering if it is the DR also

[zaxh81]

what about in-camera settings?

[vince123123]

Colour Profile is sRGB. The "Optimize image" settings in cam most of them should either be none, or not enabled or normal.

Originally Posted by TMC check color profile and settings on the camera. Just wondering if it is the DR also

[silver.wolf]

I guess you can't use the default settings. Have to tweak the saturation and contrast to how you want it to be.

[Ian]

A few ideas:

Set Camera to Adobe RGB mode

What you may find to be dull muted colours may infact be a more accurate representation of the colours present. The D100 was known to produce oversaturated ie: inaccurate colour when compared to the D1x and D2x, yet the D100 was more accurate than the D70 and D50.

Cheers
Ian

[vince123123]

I thought I read somewhere that Adobe RGB gives even more muted colours if you don't have a proper colour managed enviroment (and I don't know the first thing about color management :P).

As for the comparisons, are you saying that the D1x and D2x are, more muted than the D200?

Originally Posted by Ian A few ideas: Set Camera to Adobe RGB mode What you may find to be dull muted colours may infact be a more accurate representation of the colours present. The D100 was known to produce oversaturated ie: inaccurate colour when compared to the D1x and D2x, yet the D100 was more accurate than the D70 and D50. Cheers Ian

[espn]

Originally Posted by vince123123 I thought I read somewhere that Adobe RGB gives even more muted colours if you don't have a proper colour managed enviroment (and I don't know the first thing about color management :P).

Not really... aRGB just gives a wider gamut of colour, when you meant muter colours that's when you try to print the aRGB into sRGB colour space. If you did your conversion properly from aRGB->sRGB and save the file as sRGB, you won't get such colour-space issues.

Originally Posted by vince123123 As for the comparisons, are you saying that the D1x and D2x are, more muted than the D200?

I would say so.

[Watcher]

Originally Posted by vince123123 I thought I read somewhere that Adobe RGB gives even more muted colours if you don't have a proper colour managed enviroment (and I don't know the first thing about color management :P). As for the comparisons, are you saying that the D1x and D2x are, more muted than the D200?

What ESPN said about the color space...

I would not use the word "muted". Rather, according to the British Journal of Photography, it is instead more what we see.

[vince123123]

Hmm I see,

Can you advice on your to "do the conversion properly" from aRGB to sRGB and save the file as sRGB? Sorry if this sounds newbie, but I really have no clue about colour space, colour management and the like. Thanks!!

Originally Posted by espn Not really... aRGB just gives a wider gamut of colour, when you meant muter colours that's when you try to print the aRGB into sRGB colour space. If you did your conversion properly from aRGB->sRGB and save the file as sRGB, you won't get such colour-space issues. I would say so.

As for the D2x thing, can you advice on whether D2x users input any settings in the cam to get nicer colours? Or do they leave it as all none/normal etc and do it in PS?

Although PS may prob be better, its probably faster to set most of it in cam first. Also, the shooting experience is enhanced when you see nicer colours on screen - and I also won't have to tell the clients every time "the colours here are not what you see later on :P"

Thanks again for the advice.

[espn]

Originally Posted by vince123123 Hmm I see, Can you advice on your to "do the conversion properly" from aRGB to sRGB and save the file as sRGB? Sorry if this sounds newbie, but I really have no clue about colour space, colour management and the like. Thanks!!

Check this out - http://forum.nikonuser.org/showthread.php?t=673

I'm still learning myself, and if you can, spare a week or two listening to Watcher on colour space will aid you greatly.

Originally Posted by vince123123 As for the D2x thing, can you advice on whether D2x users input any settings in the cam to get nicer colours? Or do they leave it as all none/normal etc and do it in PS? Although PS may prob be better, its probably faster to set most of it in cam first. Also, the shooting experience is enhanced when you see nicer colours on screen - and I also won't have to tell the clients every time "the colours here are not what you see later on :P"

I won't know about other D2X users, but from my own personal experience, mostly pushing up the contrast would be pretty sufficient. So far, most of the D2X users I know worry about getting the system settings correct than colour settings right.

However, if you do a search on the internet, there are recommended settings to use to optimize the performance of the D2X. Most would do the PP after shooting and not before shooting though. Most D2X users recommend aRGB when shooting too. Hope I answered your question.

[vince123123]

Will check out the references you've highlighted and see if I can find something on the Net on the D2x (given that I've tried and failed for the D200).

I noticed that in NC4 when bumping up the contrast to "medium-high", or was it something like that, the contrast seems fine now. Does that mean I can use that same setting in cam as well?

Originally Posted by espn Check this out - http://forum.nikonuser.org/showthread.php?t=673 I'm still learning myself, and if you can, spare a week or two listening to Watcher on colour space will aid you greatly. I won't know about other D2X users, but from my own personal experience, mostly pushing up the contrast would be pretty sufficient. So far, most of the D2X users I know worry about getting the system settings correct than colour settings right. However, if you do a search on the internet, there are recommended settings to use to optimize the performance of the D2X. Most would do the PP after shooting and not before shooting though. Most D2X users recommend aRGB when shooting too. Hope I answered your question.

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by vince123123 Just did a studio test of the D200 - funny thing is I find that the colours appear somewhat unsaturated/low contrast/murky. At first I thought it was the LCD - but when I went back to view on the monitor, it seems that way to me. Any advice will be appreciated.

Try Custom
Tone Compensation: More Contrast +
Saturation: Enhanced +
Color Mode: III (I use mode I for a more natural skin tone)

Color Space: sRGB (I don't do much editing anyway so I don't bother about Adobe RGB, the colours turn out slightly wrong if you do direct prints)

In fact the colour on the D200 looks more natural and you still get to preserve the highlight and shadow details.

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by vince123123 Hmm I see, Can you advice on your to "do the conversion properly" from aRGB to sRGB and save the file as sRGB? Sorry if this sounds newbie, but I really have no clue about colour space, colour management and the like. Thanks!! As for the D2x thing, can you advice on whether D2x users input any settings in the cam to get nicer colours? Or do they leave it as all none/normal etc and do it in PS? Although PS may prob be better, its probably faster to set most of it in cam first. Also, the shooting experience is enhanced when you see nicer colours on screen - and I also won't have to tell the clients every time "the colours here are not what you see later on :P" Thanks again for the advice.

For both D2X and D200, I find that I am already getting great colours by leaving the camera in the Normal mode. Just have to add that I always have my WB on "Cloudy" because that is the closest setting to daylight film.

For D70s, I have loaded the sRealav2 tone curve and the colour is very close to D200 "Normal" setting.

This is shot with the D70s.


This is shot with the D200 on a different day, so ignore the sky.


Exposure for both photos are essentially the same D70-1.3s f/3.5 ISO200, D200-2.6s f/3.5 ISO100.

Note that the D200 has a slightly warmer cast. This can be achieved in the D70s by using "Cloudy -1".

[vince123123]

When you mean "Normal", are you saying you set the "Optimize Image" settings to "Normal"?

What i meant for normal/none which I used was actually "Custom", but then inside the Custom, i set everything to none or normal,: ie:

Custom
1. Image Sharpening - None
2. Tone Compensation - Normal
3. Color Mode - I
4. Saturation - Normal
5. Hue - 0

Originally Posted by lsisaxon For both D2X and D200, I find that I am already getting great colours by leaving the camera in the Normal mode. Just have to add that I always have my WB on "Cloudy" because that is the closest setting to daylight film.

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by vince123123 When you mean "Normal", are you saying you set the "Optimize Image" settings to "Normal"? What i meant for normal/none which I used was actually "Custom", but then inside the Custom, i set everything to none or normal,: ie: Custom 1. Image Sharpening - None 2. Tone Compensation - Normal 3. Color Mode - I 4. Saturation - Normal 5. Hue - 0

Yes. I used the Normal settings on the Optimize image. I don't find a need to use Custom on the D2x and D200.

[Witness]

do u happen to have custom curves on the d100?

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by Witness do u happen to have custom curves on the d100?

I heard the sRealav2 works on the D100 but I think it doesn't work that well. Why not create one yourself?

[lsisaxon]

Originally Posted by vince123123 Just did a studio test of the D200 - funny thing is I find that the colours appear somewhat unsaturated/low contrast/murky. At first I thought it was the LCD - but when I went back to view on the monitor, it seems that way to me. Any advice will be appreciated.

This just struck me. Did you use the same meter reading for both the cameras?

[markccm]

Originally Posted by lsisaxon This just struck me. Did you use the same meter reading for both the cameras?

dun think so its the same metering system.