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Thread: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

  1. #21

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    Do share which laws you are so worried about.

    Which strict laws are you referring to? Laws against chewing gum? Public gathering? Molest? Statutory rape?

    Whatever laws apply to 15 yo's also apply to 80 yo ah mas (except statutory rape, of course), so you should not live with unfounded fears, if possible.

    Eg Parental consent is not required per se for a transaction such as a model shoot. Of course, if you understand the law of contract here, you'll know that they can renege on the contract with no consequences, but you cannot. That is a chance you have to take, of course, but you won't go in jail just because you paid them to model for you. (Hint: you'll go to jail if you molest them, but hey, you can go to jail for molesting an 80 yo ah ma as well).

    Wai Leong
    ===
    This law of contract with minors is not voidable if time is given to the underage to seek legal advise from any individual deemed suitable by the law. At such if there is no other form of duress or threat to the minor in anyway, there is no risk. Also, if there is monetary gains for them with the parental approval, they cannot hold it against you unless you yourself is in breech of any clauses in the contract or any other law protecting the minor. =) Law is so fun isn't it? lol

  2. #22
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim
    This law of contract with minors is not voidable if time is given to the underage to seek legal advise from any individual deemed suitable by the law. At such if there is no other form of duress or threat to the minor in anyway, there is no risk. Also, if there is monetary gains for them with the parental approval, they cannot hold it against you unless you yourself is in breech of any clauses in the contract or any other law protecting the minor. =) Law is so fun isn't it? lol
    You lawyer?

  3. #23

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Kids these day are getting smarter and with a materialistic streak ... some are not scare to resort to whatever means to get "the goodlife" the fast way. Baiting the silly "uncle" is not beyond them.
    yea man agreeable! now adays kids can fool policeman too... dont under estimate them...

    sam! i going ORD this friday

    it's gd to know a fellow officer here

  4. #24
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by zhang3feng
    yea man agreeable! now adays kids can fool policeman too... dont under estimate them...

    sam! i going ORD this friday

    it's gd to know a fellow officer here
    Gee ORD coming har? heheh

    Well if you like policing....you will look forward to doing it for 14 days per year like I did when called in for reservist. It is a great "holiday" each year for me. Well....hope you have had a great NS stint.

    If you get "lucky" maybe you get to join the "kins men"? If you are fit you might get sent to join the special task force reservist unit. If you are into that kind of adventure that is heheh.

  5. #25

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone
    You lawyer?

    LOL no.. but i had to study a lil law as i am a media student. =)

  6. #26

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Gee ORD coming har? heheh

    Well if you like policing....you will look forward to doing it for 14 days per year like I did when called in for reservist. It is a great "holiday" each year for me. Well....hope you have had a great NS stint.

    If you get "lucky" maybe you get to join the "kins men"? If you are fit you might get sent to join the special task force reservist unit. If you are into that kind of adventure that is heheh.

    Police Coast Guard the best!
    D200_AF-S 70-200 F2.8G VR_Tokina 12-24mm F4_TC-17E II

  7. #27
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fumio
    Police Coast Guard the best!
    Ya that is cool but I never get that gig. I was with the Riot Police for a year stationed at Mount Vernon before it shut down that unit and tranfer out to G Div for sector car patrol and fast respond car.

    So you must have got to use the night scope binoculars. Awesome equipment...wish I could have that for night photography haha...I use that when I was involve in a few illegal immigrant raids and we got to use that to look out at all the beaches and shore line.

    Good to see another PNSF or Regular here....

  8. #28

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Yes.... think carefully.

    But the point is any girl can accuse you of molest, be they 15 or 50 years old.

    That is something to be concerned about in any shoot, not just ones involving teens.

    The qn I want to make to the original poster is to explain what is it about 15 year olds that we should be so worried about.

    I can think of two:

    a. That you may not be able to enforce a contract against them, so they can take your $$ and not show up and you may have no recourse;

    b. That they may not be able to give you a proper model release, since they are below 21.

    Is there any more that Canonised wants to add to the list?

    Parental consent for the shoot is nice, but that doesn't stop them from accusing you of molest-- if they want to blackmail you, the parental consent doesn't change anything. And frankly, even 50 year old auntie can accuse you of molest-- the law does not specify a max age for the female victim-- so please don't discriminate against 15 year olds.

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by Ola
    All it need is the girl to accuse you of molest and your name probably appear in the paper and TV. It will be up to you to prove your innocence. Your words against her. Your name will be known to Singapore but the girl's will never be published. Think carefully.....

  9. #29
    vince123123
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Hehe this is interesting, Wai Leong can soon take over debunking of invented laws and misconceptions!

    Thumbs up for you man!

  10. #30

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Contract and molest is two different issues here.

    contract law is enforcable against a minor if they are given enough time to seek legal advise. In this case the legal advisors would most probably be their parents. If pay is included and made know to the parents of the benefits their children is receiving, and permits their child to take part in a photo shoot, the contract will not have a vitiating factor to deem it voidable.

    prevention of molestation case is very much easy to solve if the shoot was done in a group. If the shoot had consist of more then 1 15 year old and say a group of 8 photographers, and one of the 15 yr old claims molestation against 1, in the eyes of the law, in court, it will be the word of 8 men VS 1 girl accompanied by 1 key witness, which is the other girl. Or alternatively, just include in female photographers as well. In this case the tables are pretty much cleared of issues if something were to happen. If not then ask the girl's parents or guardian or who ever deem suitable enough to be present at the shoot.

    One more way of prevention against molestation cases is that, no contact must be made btw the PGs and the model except the make up and hair artist. Which is a female. and state this factor within the clauses in the contract. This will safeguard the PGs.

    Cheers

  11. #31
    vince123123
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    I think you have missed Wai Leong's message, which is to say that as far as molest is concerned, it is irrelevant whether it is a 15 year old or 80 year old.

    Second, this is the first time I heard that parents are considered "legal advisors".

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim
    Contract and molest is two different issues here.

    contract law is enforcable against a minor if they are given enough time to seek legal advise. In this case the legal advisors would most probably be their parents. If pay is included and made know to the parents of the benefits their children is receiving, and permits their child to take part in a photo shoot, the contract will not have a vitiating factor to deem it voidable.

    prevention of molestation case is very much easy to solve if the shoot was done in a group. If the shoot had consist of more then 1 15 year old and say a group of 8 photographers, and one of the 15 yr old claims molestation against 1, in the eyes of the law, in court, it will be the word of 8 men VS 1 girl accompanied by 1 key witness, which is the other girl. Or alternatively, just include in female photographers as well. In this case the tables are pretty much cleared of issues if something were to happen. If not then ask the girl's parents or guardian or who ever deem suitable enough to be present at the shoot.
    Third, for this paragraph, I only refer to the first sentence of your post which states that
    "Contract and molest is two different issues here."

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim
    One more way of prevention against molestation cases is that, no contact must be made btw the PGs and the model except the make up and hair artist. Which is a female. and state this factor within the clauses in the contract. This will safeguard the PGs.

    Cheers

  12. #32
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    ......and so it begins again....

  13. #33
    vince123123
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    How true.

  14. #34

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Oh dear...

    The point is that, if somebody want to make things up, someone want to sabo you, it doesn't matter whether there was any contact. You never touch, but she still say you touch, then how? Doesn't matter what the contract say, obviously if you really wanted to touch, you wouldn't be bothered by what is in the contract.

    Remember-- independent witnesses is your only protection. Ha!

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim
    One more way of prevention against molestation cases is that, no contact must be made btw the PGs and the model except the make up and hair artist. Which is a female. and state this factor within the clauses in the contract. This will safeguard the PGs.

    Cheers

  15. #35
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    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    So if I shoot my 15 mths old daughter, who I get conscent from? my wife?... but I only have 1 daughter, and most of my friends have boys...so hard to do group shot, cause we so busy taking care of our daughter, we hardly get to go out...let alone do phot shoot

    I also cannot understand my daughter, cause she speaks in baby language...

    Hey...my daughter can also go places cause she starts really young, like on the 1st day she was born...

    Seriously though, it makes sense to have a chaperon along and to use your discretion in such shoots.

  16. #36

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Quote Originally Posted by blive
    So if I shoot my 15 mths old daughter, who I get conscent from? my wife?... but I only have 1 daughter, and most of my friends have boys...so hard to do group shot, cause we so busy taking care of our daughter, we hardly get to go out...let alone do phot shoot

    I also cannot understand my daughter, cause she speaks in baby language...

    Hey...my daughter can also go places cause she starts really young, like on the 1st day she was born...

    Seriously though, it makes sense to have a chaperon along and to use your discretion in such shoots.


    awwwww. so cute...

  17. #37

    Talking Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    but anyway, you all make teens sound live devils here.
    abit too extreme bah.
    similar to how some adults can really b*stard you.
    just have to be careful bah.

    simple:
    1) dont use 16 and below for photoshoot lor (unless you taking those cute pics)
    2) have 2 witness (1 is her guardian, the other another photographer/friend/independent.)
    3) dont use studio or enclosed place.
    4) sign contract have 2 witnesses, one her guardian, the other independent.

    wahhhhhhhh. make life easier, just dont use lorrrr.

    im cuter.
    and i still look like kid.
    Last edited by mintae; 11th January 2006 at 06:09 PM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    Which section of the Law of Contract says this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim

    contract law is enforcable against a minor if they are given enough time to seek legal advise. In this case the legal advisors would most probably be their parents. If pay is included and made know to the parents of the benefits their children is receiving, and permits their child to take part in a photo shoot, the contract will not have a vitiating factor to deem it voidable.

  19. #39

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    This is a two part case. In which the legal advisor is the guarantor that the contracts is valid. And he/she is willing to bear the consequences if anything were to go wrong. Its under the defenses used by lawyers practising contract laws. (as taught by my lecturer who is a lawyer)

    In the case of molestation, I do agree that anyone can point their finger and said.. "HE MOLESTED ME" but in the case that there is a group of PGs, that one group is consindered one body against the victim's word. In which a neutral party must be around to prove the innocence of the accused.

    so i guess the best option is as what Mintae has said.

    simple:
    1) dont use 16 and below for photoshoot lor (unless you taking those cute pics)
    2) have 2 witness (1 is her guardian, the other another photographer/friend/independent.)
    3) dont use studio or enclosed place.
    4) sign contract have 2 witnesses, one her guardian, the other independent.


    This alone should safe guard the PGs from any issues that may arise from the "call of molestation. Hope i am not offending anyone. BUt just trying to put what i learn into sth gd. =) sorry for the bad feelings.. =)

    Cheers

  20. #40

    Default Re: 15 yo gals n wanna b shot here?

    This is rather interesting advice. Please ask your lecturer for the section, if he can provide, or if it is not in statute, ask if he can cite some case law (ie X vs Y).

    On molest, if his advice is that you have to prove your innocence, then perhaps you should ask another lawyer. Generally, it's the prosecution who has to prove your guilt, you don't have to prove your innocence until your defence is called, and even then you only have to show reasonable doubt.

    The word of 8 people is not normally taken as that of one body. Esp when 8 people will report 8 different things (just like in any accident, 8 witnesses may report slightly different recollections).

    It is not a question of whether the parties giving evidence are neutral-- most of the time, it's hard to find anyone truly neutral, either they are friends of the victim or the accused. It is more important that the parties are able to give credible, clear and consistent evidence, even under cross-examination.

    If we have to rely on neutral parties only, life would be very difficult for the accused.

    PS The best option is to be careful-- whether your model is 15 or 50. Trust no one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim
    This is a two part case. In which the legal advisor is the guarantor that the contracts is valid. And he/she is willing to bear the consequences if anything were to go wrong. Its under the defenses used by lawyers practising contract laws. (as taught by my lecturer who is a lawyer)

    In the case of molestation, I do agree that anyone can point their finger and said.. "HE MOLESTED ME" but in the case that there is a group of PGs, that one group is consindered one body against the victim's word. In which a neutral party must be around to prove the innocence of the accused.

    so i guess the best option is as what Mintae has said.

    simple:
    1) dont use 16 and below for photoshoot lor (unless you taking those cute pics)
    2) have 2 witness (1 is her guardian, the other another photographer/friend/independent.)
    3) dont use studio or enclosed place.
    4) sign contract have 2 witnesses, one her guardian, the other independent.


    This alone should safe guard the PGs from any issues that may arise from the "call of molestation. Hope i am not offending anyone. BUt just trying to put what i learn into sth gd. =) sorry for the bad feelings.. =)

    Cheers
    Last edited by waileong; 11th January 2006 at 09:51 PM.

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