View Poll Results: Are u in or not?

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47. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes,good idea.i'm in

    20 42.55%
  • no,i prefer to do on our own

    8 17.02%
  • huh?

    13 27.66%
  • no,cos i don't want others to use my portfolio as theirs

    6 12.77%
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Thread: Photographer agent????

  1. #21

    Default Re: Doubts

    Quote Originally Posted by studiolabmaster
    my point is simple ,photo rep is not a must but a good start.If u think u r capable to get so many dealS and do all kind of photography by yourself,great.
    But for me i believe in -no one is a master of all,
    a good photographer specialised in certain kind of photograpsH,not all.
    tO PROTECT yourself,i am open to all ideas but DO NOT CRASH MY THREAD!
    Also for every portfolio given,u are to indicate your own potrait photo of yourself and also each pc of photo u give in 8r must be accompanied with your name at a corner.
    For me,i could only say.trust and believe is the only thing to works things out.If u are scared ,than forget it.anyway u or me got nothing to loss.
    I do mainly human shots..........i am not a master of all
    If i was to get 5 jobs a day,do u think i am that capable to do them all in the same time.
    If each job cost $300 total will be $1500.my commission will be S$450 if all are sub-out.
    I already had a small pool of freelance photographers,but the idea was to bring more out of each one and my sales marketer will not have a chance to slack,cos if we are joined togeteher,we basically covered the photography industry and to me,its just like a singapore photographer liberary.
    Conflict,yes,maybe.only if one is charging $300 and the other one is $1000 which the $300 produce the same or better results.....
    Hopethis tells u what i am trying to do.............
    Firstly, do not be sensitive.. Nobody's crashing your thread, at least not me... I'm merely pointing out most agendas to be transparent... Trust and believing in others other than yourself is also a certain way to be taken advantage of... And trust me, and really do, I know exactly what you're trying to do for these people... I've certainly got nothing to lose in this thread, but I really see the long & winding path of the hopefuls trying to cut a path. The reason why I clarify the certain issues of associate photographers, who pays what and stuffs, is so that everyone just gets a better picture of what's exactly happening... There's just a couple of issues I disagree, and thought of putting them into perspective, because those hopefuls who have started, they ain't streetwise as yet... So just putting in my part as a working full-timer....

    Photo-Rep is not even supposed to be a starting point for photographers. It's really for those who has made it and good enough to be represented... Which established Photo-Rep would screw his/ her reputation by representing a mediocre? A photo-rep is a branded name by him/ herself already and doesn't need to rely on the luck of the photographers really... perhaps there would be a mediocre photo-rep who tries peddling photographers with work less than make the cut... This becomes worse... The rep not only lost a reputation by because of this, he screws up the photographer to be cursed at, and from then on, or at least for a while, people remembers him/ her for having represented lousy work... You have a team of freelance you were trying to put together, ultimately, the seriously good ones would have been dragged into the mudpool too....

    Singapore maybe small, but may I just say it's wishing thinking to cover Singapore's scene of photographers... Remember First Photo, it's gone.... Most Photographers, if given a chance would like to be in the limelight by him/ herself... most active(passionate photographers) would be out impressing their clients, just like you do.. All you would get is freelances(no offences to those holding onto full time jobs), but people who shoot so very seldom.. These are the people you push to do a commercial event/ job?? I really don't think money making(commission making) in this way seems to be the route to nirvana. In my upbringing in my career, I was taught, trained through pretty guerilla way, to be good and delivering even before my ex. boss hands me my first assignment...

    If you would, do train up those who you think is, potentially good, bring em up in your shoes... Then only, started marketing them out... These hopefuls will then really know what your efforts were about...

  2. #22

    Default Re: photographer agent????

    Just sharing my dream... I hope to one day become a cunning ******* businessman and be an agent/representative and collect all the portfolios and put them in my sales kit/website and then take on jobs i like and give away jobs i dont like hehe. Great retirement plan i must say...
    Last edited by benedium; 28th January 2006 at 06:02 PM.

  3. #23

    Default No doubts

    Sorry guys, but I think I reposted this in a clearer light.. Pls ignore #21...

    You started this thread, speeches are free to make... Let me say what know and be peaceful about it... I ain't trying to prove you wrong, but making being streetwise easier for the folks to see...... I'm every bit a people photographer, I have a business partner capable of doing everything I'm weak at.. still life.... a producer(whom I don't even call a photo-rep, to make sure our schedules doesn't crash, and sees new clients... An asst to tender to the daily runnings of the studio....

    Many freelances are at stake of having their reputation swept because their un-trained photo-reps only cares about their commission. If un-trained, they merely present mediocre works. The innocent photographer who's portfolio isn't ready is presented to the client, if the portfolio's bad, the client remember this name, and his/ her career comes to a standstill, or at least for a while. Tongues will wag, people by words of mouth would remember this the work of this lousy photographer... Even he improves, it really takes a long time to be getting out of the situation the photo-rep put you through.... let's not even mentioned that your company's reputation is greatly maimed too...

    Photographers make money through a lifetime of passion injection in wanting to provide good pictures, so much so that sometimes, it's really not the money...

    perhaps there are those who merely owns cameras and thus think you can start making money, in a bid to make others pay for your passion....technically that's fine... No harm done, so long as you deliver perfectly to a paying corporate client.... To each its own...

    I see you busily breaking down the sums and stating your commission even. Really no point doing that... What I'm asking on behalf of these hopefuls who's trying to make a cut is that:

    1. Do you have a good photo-rep to represent them before you even ask for their work? Have they met you photo-rep to know him/ her enough that their works would be represented properly?

    2. Do you intend to identify & train those potentially good to be a good associate of your company, and thus growing and allowing them to carve a niche for themselves?

    3. If they wanted to be represented by you, do you have a clientele suitable for them? or basically dump everything you don't want to the hopefuls?


    It's a pretty audacious move to be even thinking of covering Singapore's photography industry... Remember First Photo? They have everything photography has installed, and have everybody to do a specific job...very huge team, probably bigger then what you thought you wanted to do... Well, they're gone...

    I'm saying the facts are wrong. Photo- Reps are not even supposed to be a starting point. It is meant for the photographer who has made the cut, and thus needs to be represented. FYI, photo-reps are a brand name themselves, firstly, they wouldn't even represent you if they dislike your portfolio... If you have a photo-rep to represent these new kids on the block, this could be a potential career threatening move for these new hopefuls. I care too much for those who's wanting to freelances, and perhaps later turn pro. simply because I I came from that path. I really know...

    Earlier, I clarified who pays what and stuffs, I thought that is only right... I repost again..

    1]Are you going to provide any equipments or breakdown of equipment?
    STUDIOLABMASTER to provide for all lightings and misc, except camera & tripod(must be photographer's own).

    2]Who owns the rights of the images?
    STUDIOLABMASTER, simply because they job was commissioned through STUDIOMASTER's company... Also because if they happen to be a lawsuit, it'll be so unfair for them to answer....

    3]0% commissions, does that include loading?
    Loading never happen, 40% to STUDIOMASTER, 60% to associated photographer if job is given by STUDIOMASTER. 30% to STUDIOMASTER, 70% to photographer if job's brought in via photographer's contact. Dividends to be made once client makes a payment. The dividends must minus outsourcing and be a open book to the photographer...

    4]Any contract or bond?
    No contract or bonds, no working hours if there's no shoot. The photographer is free to poach anybody, it's a free trade industry. There is really no such thing as 'your client', 'my client'... There only good and bad photographers. Having said that, it's always nice to not bite the hand that feeds and always be grateful.

    5]how about producing cost?
    STUDIOLABMASTER for all outsourcing cost and transports if the client is his.. If the photographer takes a taxi, he takes a receipt and claim it off the job. However, if the job comes off the photographer, he does it vice-versa, because STUDIOMASTER cannot bear the losses of outsourcing should the client do not pay.

    6. I don't see my advertising clients coming after me for posting a delivered work up on the net... There's no legal damages... unless, you wanted the credit for your own company... By not even allowing your associates to post their work on online, how the hell are they going to paddle and carve a niche for themselves???

    Asking me to think about your words again, I really did , and I think I'm in a perfect situation to know what you're trying to do for the folks here, too well...

    STUDIOMASTER, I wish you well, and really hope that through a proper planning of actions, a pedigree of photographers would grow under your arms... I only have good intentions... The last thing I want is an enemy....

    Happy New Year to all...

    PBS
    Last edited by pointblankshots; 28th January 2006 at 07:05 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: photographer agent????

    Quote Originally Posted by benedium
    Just sharing my dream... I hope to one day become a cunning ******* businessman and be an agent/representative and collect all the portfolios and put them in my sales kit/website and then take on jobs i like and give away jobs i dont like hehe. Great retirement plan i must say...
    That's exactly what I thought may happen... unless, one knows the photo-rep well enough... Worst if the photo-rep practices is biased...

  5. #25

    Default Re: photographer agent????

    Personally, I think the 30% rep. fee is a little high. And the commission should only be of the photo fee, NOT the loading and expenses. Based on past experience, 15% sounds about right for me. And I own all rights. Clients belong to the rep. As a matter of principle, even if the client approaches you direct you should refer them back to your rep.

  6. #26

    Default Re: photographer agent????

    Quote Originally Posted by hondasleeper
    Personally, I think the 30% rep. fee is a little high. And the commission should only be of the photo fee, NOT the loading and expenses. Based on past experience, 15% sounds about right for me. And I own all rights. Clients belong to the rep. As a matter of principle, even if the client approaches you direct you should refer them back to your rep.

    whichever works between you and the rep.... Whichever you feel the rights belong to... different industry, different practice.... to each its own...

    Anyway, it's not my thread, just lending a helping hand to clarify if there was a need to though....

    PBS

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    East of Singapore
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    1,750

    Default Re: Photographer agent????

    Thanks PBS for the info and I have to agreed with him.

    Let's say you have 5 photographers. You show clients portfoilos of all 5 ( you'll be lucky if they are willing to look through all 5 photographer's portfolio and are able to remember which image belongs to which photographer ). Most clients will not remember the diff portfolio of all 5 after just 1 week.
    Let's say after a week they call your photo rep. with a job. All the client knows is that XYZ studio have came to see them last week and they think you can do the job at their rate. Who gets the job? Most likely your studio will get the job as they'll just call and say " Hey, I need to shoot this product/model. When can you do it? and how much will it cost? " Unless the photographer is know, they'll not ask for him/her by name, hack they can't even remember who shot what. So who gets the job?

    From what I know, Photographer's Agent overseas must be able to deliver a min. no of jobs every month. The agent looks through the photographer's portfolio, gauge how marketable the photographer is and gives an estimate of how much business they can genarate for the photographer. There'll be a short period where the agent goes around to some of his/her long standing clients to show this photographer portfolio and gauge how is the respond before a contract is sign. Even if the photographer is new/unknown the agent must still assure a min sum to the photographer. After all, how much business and what kind of business the photographer gets will depand on the agent as he/she is the one marketing the photographer.

    studiolabmaster, not trying to "crush yout thread" but these are things which others might not have thought of before as they are not in the market and as a working photographer, I'm just providing a look at things from a "real world" prospecitive.
    Last edited by yqt; 8th February 2006 at 01:54 PM.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  8. #28

    Default Re: Photographer agent????

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    Thanks PBS for the info and I have to agreed with him.

    Let's say you have 5 photographers. You show clients portfoilos of all 5 ( you'll be lucky if they are willing to look through all 5 photographer's portfolio and are able to remember which image belongs to which photographer ). Most clients will not remember the diff portfolio of all 5 after just 1 week.
    Let's say after a week they call your photo rep. with a job. All the client knows is that XYZ studio have came to see them last week and they think you can do the job at their rate. Who gets the job? Most likely your studio will get the job as they'll just call and say " Hey, I need to shoot this product/model. When can you do it? and how much will it cost? " Unless the photographer is know, they'll not ask for him/her by name, hack they can't even remember who shot what. So who gets the job?

    From what I know, Photographer's Agent overseas must be able to deliver a min. no of jobs every month. The agent looks through the photographer's portfolio, gauge how marketable the photographer is and gives an estimate of how much business they can genarate for the photographer. There'll be a short period where the agent goes around to some of his/her long standing clients to show this photographer portfolio and gauge how is the respond before a contract is sign. Even if the photographer is new/unknown the agent must still assure a min sum to the photographer. After all, how much business and what kind of business the photographer gets will depand on the agent as he/she is the one marketing the photographer.

    studiolabmaster, not trying to "crush yout thread" but these are things which others might not have thought of before as they are not in the market and as a working photographer, I'm just providing a look at things from a "real world" prospecitive.
    That's a definite real world...

  9. #29
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    @Upp Serangoon/ Singapore
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    Default Re: Photographer agent????

    HI all

    I am new to this site. I am not a Photographer but a freelance producer and consultant on photography production. I would like to make some general comments this topic.

    - A PRODUCER IS NOT A MARKETEER (or Rep) = They are NOT the same. What the photography studio needs is a Marketeer who has Production background (unfortunately hard to find). They will help to answer clients' enquiries and doubts. They are the ones who buffer between Photographers and the end clients BECAUSE they understand the 2 languages; Quality vs Budget. Therefore, please do not try to hire a Producer and EXPECT her to be doing Sales/ Marketing for you. Once a job is on hand, your Producer will already go mad with all the details!

    - Commission = I have worked with international clients and photographers and we work on a 30% split for photographer's day rate and loading fees.

    Please feel free to email me if anyone of you have any questions regarding the above. I think my past experiences will be able to advice accordingly.

    Good luck!
    Linda

  10. #30

    Default Re: Photographer agent????

    After rereading my previous post and some of the other posts. I want to correct myself. The reps commission should be of the usage or the loading only. The photographer's fee, expenses should not be part of the commission. And as for how much the commission the rep should get should depend on how you negotiate on that. Certain promotional expenses should also be shared by both parties, or once again depending on how you negotiate those terms.

    And for one rep to represent 5 photographers they should all, if not some, specialize in different types of photography. It is not only to make your life easier you won't be accussed of favouring one photographer over another, even if the clients make the decision. I've seen if happen before and it potentially get very ugly.

    Just my 2 cents.

  11. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    earth
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    1,271

    Default Re: Doubts

    i prefer the dell way....
    flickr me....
    exposure medium: 30% film, 70% sensor

  12. #32

    Default Re: Photographer agent????

    I may be wrong, but I always thought a photographer's agent or rep would not be a photographer him/herself. In my experience, the rep would be a person who actively goes out to look for jobs for me, markets my portfolio, settles the business side of things, so that I can concentrate on the actual photo taking.

    What the original poster has in mind sounds more to me like a photography business group, with several members doing different types of photography, which is then marketed to several clients as a whole.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Photographer agent????

    .. this is interesting ... I'm just thankful to have a chance to use my camera on willing subjects ...
    EOS30D|Tamron17-50f2.8|EF50f1.8MkI|EF50f1.4|Cosina28-80f3.5-4.5Macro|Voigtlander APO125f2.5 (sold)

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