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Thread: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    a questioning letter written by dr lim boon hee in today's st. in it, he noted that a sof's sgt drowned during an exercise and a policeman died after he alleged shot himself accidentally while 'playing' wth his pistol. in sof's case, where safety regime were beefed up after another drowning case. in moha's case, appropriate policies were already in place to check such scenario. unfortunately, they happened. my view is that no matter how tough or realistic the training exercises is, safety will always has its place.

    could these deaths have been prevented? dr lim suggested making the commanders of the respective units responsible for such deaths as ultimately, they are responsible for the safety of their men. only with this, will the level of safety consciousness rise.
    Last edited by reachme2003; 3rd January 2006 at 06:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    i think the 2 cases of the NSP and SOF cannot be linked together. The NSP's was self inflicted. He knew fully well that loading a bullet into the chamber and squeezing it would be deadly but he went ahead anyway. Furthermore, he told his colleague he was 'going to the toilet' before duty. We don't expect his partner to follow him to toilet right?

    For the SOF 2SG accident, it is hard to put the blame on the 2SG. He had 10kg of weight on him and was doing the exercise for the 3rd time. Being in the SOF meant that he was meantally strong. Probably even stronger than his body and therefore ignored signs of fatigue. I would blame the senior specs for failure to look out for him. They had several pairs of eyes from an elevated position giving them almost a bird's eye view, but it took the Major in the water to notice someone's missing.

    Of the 2 deaths, I think the drowning was probably more preventable than the "suicide". If the safety officers have done their parts, it probably would not have happened. Excuse that "it happen too fast" is not acceptable. strapping 10kg of negatively bouyant weight will definitely make you drop like a rock to the bottom of the sea. Those who've gone diving will know what pressure can do to you.

    Safety conciousness is always there, they know what safety means and how to do it. But when you've been going through this day in day out. It becomes routine and assume "nothing will happen".

    It seems that only deaths get publicised. Many of us from NS will know of many more serious and near deaths injuries that are 'resolved' at section/company or unit level. It seldom gets out to national level like this.

    Which is worse? permanent disability/injury for life or death?
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    let's face it. the level of training we as a nation undergo is very intensive. some authors have chose to call Singapore the "most densely defended piece of real estate anywhere in the world."

    statistically accidents will happen, nevermind whose fault or whether it is preventable. you can try very hard to reduce this (we are already known as very kiasu in terms of TSR) but it will never be zero. some of those that happen will be due to human error, failures, pure fate and bad luck.

    personally I do not think the level of accidents is high given our training intensity.

  4. #4
    Member/Tangshooter zaxh81's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    NOT AGAIN...


  5. #5

    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    The SOF death is a tragedy. Sometimes accidents do happen, even when precautions were taken. However, negligence is something that we should not condone. In my opinion, the navy incident at Pedra Branca is clearly no accident and the officers responsible are not being reprimanded enough for the deaths of our servicemen and women. But that's just my opinion.

  6. #6

    Lightbulb Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    you do not seem to think that one death is one too many. looking at the case of sof, clearly, it could have been prevented or intervened in time to avoid death. there were failures. eg. no medical officer on duty during exercise. the coroner was right to highlight them.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    let's face it. the level of training we as a nation undergo is very intensive. some authors have chose to call Singapore the "most densely defended piece of real estate anywhere in the world."

    statistically accidents will happen, nevermind whose fault or whether it is preventable. you can try very hard to reduce this (we are already known as very kiasu in terms of TSR) but it will never be zero. some of those that happen will be due to human error, failures, pure fate and bad luck.

    personally I do not think the level of accidents is high given our training intensity.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    As with all hierarchical systems, let's just blame the guy on top. Chief of Defence. hehe

  8. #8

    Lightbulb Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    for him to apologise, take a deep bow and then resign gracefully?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Pls be warned that anything regarding political issue will render this thread closed and deleted without any further actions.

    Mod
    Kopitiam

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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    you do not seem to think that one death is one too many. looking at the case of sof, clearly, it could have been prevented or intervened in time to avoid death. there were failures. eg. no medical officer on duty during exercise. the coroner was right to highlight them.

    I am just noting that statistically accidents will happen, some will be avoidable, others not. it is always easy to pinpoint failures from hindsight (I am NOT excusing the non-availability of the MO at the naval base). while we should do our utmost to prevent accidents, they do and will occur, and the last thing we should do is to go overboard by curtailing realistic training.

    I have myself been exposed to and also witnessed many potential fatal accidents. I am not staking this opinion as an ignorant civilian. perhaps I have seen too many hence my "level of tolerance"?

  11. #11

    Lightbulb Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    higher level of tolerance, perhaps so.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    I am just noting that statistically accidents will happen, some will be avoidable, others not. it is always easy to pinpoint failures from hindsight (I am NOT excusing the non-availability of the MO at the naval base). while we should do our utmost to prevent accidents, they do and will occur, and the last thing we should do is to go overboard by curtailing realistic training.

    I have myself been exposed to and also witnessed many potential fatal accidents. I am not staking this opinion as an ignorant civilian. perhaps I have seen too many hence my "level of tolerance"?

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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluestrike
    Pls be warned that anything regarding political issue will render this thread closed and deleted without any further actions.

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    Kopitiam
    different strokes, different folks then.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  13. #13

    Lightbulb Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Defence minister teo rightly paid tribute to sgt ong and men like him. 'they volunteered for the sof. they are prepared to put their lives on the line to protect our lives. and they know that at any time they can be called upon to do that'.

    I salute these men.

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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    Defence minister teo rightly paid tribute to sgt ong and men like him. 'they volunteered for the sof. they are prepared to put their lives on the line to protect our lives. and they know that at any time they can be called upon to do that'.

    I salute these men.
    x2. much respect to them.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    yes, bravery is jumping into the water with 10kg of load, and prepared to execute your mission

  16. #16

    Lightbulb Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    i might add, in pitch darkness too. i had, in the past, seen some of them at saf's open houses. they did appeared confident and 'cocky' too. now, i understand better where that cockiness comes from. it has reinforced my respect for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    yes, bravery is jumping into the water with 10kg of load, and prepared to execute your mission
    Last edited by reachme2003; 3rd January 2006 at 10:33 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Nobody have asked whether the body armour vest used by the SOF is a RAV(Releaseable Armour Vest) for maritime use where the vest used is hold in place by a cable.

    http://www.paracletearmor.com/Vests/RMV0019.htm

    http://www.eagleindustries.com/ProdD...p?PartNoID=614

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Respect them on a case by case basis.

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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Quote Originally Posted by hanafi
    The SOF death is a tragedy. Sometimes accidents do happen, even when precautions were taken. However, negligence is something that we should not condone. In my opinion, the navy incident at Pedra Branca is clearly no accident and the officers responsible are not being reprimanded enough for the deaths of our servicemen and women. But that's just my opinion.
    agreee!
    these commission officers actually got the cheek to push the buck.
    imagine if u r a tonner driver,
    u sway across the road causing an accident that kills 4.
    just fine some money?
    can appeal some more

    jude
    ps- they didn't just kill some servicemen,
    with it goes one of the funniest ad that the navy no longer can use.
    remember the one that goes,'missile, missile, who ordered missile?'
    can't even evade a cargo boat, want to tackle missile

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    Default Re: Deaths of members of our uniformed services

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluestrike
    Pls be warned that anything regarding political issue will render this thread closed and deleted without any further actions.

    Mod
    Kopitiam
    good morning Mod,
    was reading the whole lot but can't seems to find
    any even close to what i feel is political.
    hv u deleted it? or is my tolerance higher

    jude

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