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Thread: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

  1. #1

    Default Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Personally, I think this TFP/TFCD is quite disadvantage for us the photographers. Many ask for free this free that, then the photographer have to pay for studio rental and makeup, etc. And the model just spend their time. But we also spend as much if not more time than them.
    However, there is still people out there willing to do free or rather at a lost for the so call models, in the name of building portfolio. Personnally i think building port folio also should'nt do it at a lost. Should let the model pay for at least the studio rental and MUA. I may sound stingy, but i think we should maintain a standard and not spoil market. Nothing is Free in this World.

    I hope soon there will be some so call unspoken rules stating that some fees are chargable by the models.

    Sorry for being sound grumpy.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    You mean payable by the models?

    Anyway, I only do TFCD/TFP shoots when there are little or no costs involved. If some others want to do it FOC in the name of their portfolios, let them do it at their own loss. We can't stop them if they want to be exploited.

    However, as discussed before many times, models seem to be treating CS as a place for free photographers of late. I suppose this is ok once in a while but not every other day. So bottom line is these so called 'models' should also show some respect to this community and not expect free stuff forever...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    seperate 'us' photographers as 'me' and 'them'
    as long as u don do it .. is not a disadvantages to u ..

    supply and demand isnt it?

    or i should say ...

    sch holiday ending ?

  4. #4
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    sorry for sounding grumpy too, but u might wanna do a search and see that this topic is already widely discussed.

    also, "photographers being exploited" also another topic kena whack until cry for mercy liow.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by jOhO
    also, "photographers being exploited" also another topic kena whack until cry for mercy liow.
    AMPA * WPPI * J team

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    I thought it is a win-win situation. Where got exploitation. Photog got a pretty model to shoot for free. Model got a CD with a set of great pic for free. Then, studio and MUA - I guess it is a matter of negotiation skills.

    And I suppose this is for new models like some poly students and for some amateur or part-time photogs to start off without paying too much.

    And it could be on the cheap - shoot outdoors, so no studio cost and DIY make-up. Then, only transport and maybe, some drinks only. Maybe, I will try it someday.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

  7. #7
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by pk2
    Personally, I think this TFP/TFCD is quite disadvantage for us the photographers. Many ask for free this free that, then the photographer have to pay for studio rental and makeup, etc. And the model just spend their time. But we also spend as much if not more time than them.
    However, there is still people out there willing to do free or rather at a lost for the so call models, in the name of building portfolio. Personnally i think building port folio also should'nt do it at a lost. Should let the model pay for at least the studio rental and MUA. I may sound stingy, but i think we should maintain a standard and not spoil market. Nothing is Free in this World.

    I hope soon there will be some so call unspoken rules stating that some fees are chargable by the models.

    Sorry for being sound grumpy.
    This has been discussed many many time before, check out the post here.
    #1

    #2


    #3



    The only strange thing I saw in CS is model come and ask for free make up, ask for free studio, and someone comply and organize a group shoot for them.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    I thought it is a win-win situation. Where got exploitation. Photog got a pretty model to shoot for free. Model got a CD with a set of great pic for free. Then, studio and MUA - I guess it is a matter of negotiation skills.

    And I suppose this is for new models like some poly students and for some amateur or part-time photogs to start off without paying too much.

    And it could be on the cheap - shoot outdoors, so no studio cost and DIY make-up. Then, only transport and maybe, some drinks only. Maybe, I will try it someday.
    guess the thread starter is saying that the models pay
    with their time only,
    whereas the photog pays for everything else and time too,
    save the model's fee.

    jude

  9. #9

    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    get model to share studio and mua costs.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs
    get model to share studio and mua costs.

    yeapz dats wad i normally do.. if TFCD.. and they wan dis n dat.. share cost pls... alls well ends well..

  11. #11

    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    I thought it is a win-win situation. Where got exploitation. Photog got a pretty model to shoot for free. Model got a CD with a set of great pic for free. Then, studio and MUA - I guess it is a matter of negotiation skills.

    And I suppose this is for new models like some poly students and for some amateur or part-time photogs to start off without paying too much.

    And it could be on the cheap - shoot outdoors, so no studio cost and DIY make-up. Then, only transport and maybe, some drinks only. Maybe, I will try it someday.
    I agree... Newbie and amatuer models and photographers I believe will benefit the most. Here are some of my personal views...
    The models...
    Newbie models need to have porfoilos so that they have something to show to others. At least, they need something to begin with. Models without portfoilos are like beautiful frames without photographs. Also, thru this, they can also gain experience in photo shoots and posings for cameras which helps to build up their confidence and posing skills. During events and exhibitions, some models just pose as if they are taking their passport-sized photographs - Just standing there smiling and that's all. Doing TFP/TFCD with the pros can help them solve this problem. Of course, pro models don't need these as photographers will most likely more than willing to pay them for photoshoots. but for the newbie/amatuer, it may not be the case unless they are some super pretty girls or have super model look. Therefore TFP/TFCD is something to begin with... But at the same time, I believe the models/"models" out there are definitely expecting some pros using big big DSRLs and Lens during the photoshoot. Maybe is because these gadgets make them feel more confident to pose at. As a prosumer camera user, I think that consumer and prosumer users are kinda at disadvantage then. We too wanted to practice our skills and be a pro someday. So, models/"models" dun expect to much lah...

    The photographers...
    Definitely, photographers need practices to improve on their skills. It is unlikely for a novice to be able to produce tons wonderful of pictures during a paid studio/outdoor shoot. Hence, he/she will most likely be wasting money and gaining no good pics back home for a paid photoshoot. The TFP/TFCD also gives the photographers opportunity to practice what they had learnt into practice use at the minimum cost. As a non-pro photographer, I personally feel that TFP/TFCD is something very good... Even for the pros out there, sometimes I believe that they might also want to try out something different from what they ususally do. Hence a good time to try things out and experiment with it. Also, it isn't gonna be cheap if one shoots portrait shots very often with models that charge.
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  12. #12
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong
    I agree... Newbie and amatuer models and photographers I believe will benefit the most. Here are some of my personal views...
    The models...
    Newbie models need to have porfoilos so that they have something to show to others. At least, they need something to begin with. Models without portfoilos are like beautiful frames without photographs. Also, thru this, they can also gain experience in photo shoots and posings for cameras which helps to build up their confidence and posing skills. During events and exhibitions, some models just pose as if they are taking their passport-sized photographs - Just standing there smiling and that's all. Doing TFP/TFCD with the pros can help them solve this problem. Of course, pro models don't need these as photographers will most likely more than willing to pay them for photoshoots. but for the newbie/amatuer, it may not be the case unless they are some super pretty girls or have super model look. Therefore TFP/TFCD is something to begin with... But at the same time, I believe the models/"models" out there are definitely expecting some pros using big big DSRLs and Lens during the photoshoot. Maybe is because these gadgets make them feel more confident to pose at. As a prosumer camera user, I think that consumer and prosumer users are kinda at disadvantage then. We too wanted to practice our skills and be a pro someday. So, models/"models" dun expect to much lah...

    The photographers...
    Definitely, photographers need practices to improve on their skills. It is unlikely for a novice to be able to produce tons wonderful of pictures during a paid studio/outdoor shoot. Hence, he/she will most likely be wasting money and gaining no good pics back home for a paid photoshoot. The TFP/TFCD also gives the photographers opportunity to practice what they had learnt into practice use at the minimum cost. As a non-pro photographer, I personally feel that TFP/TFCD is something very good... Even for the pros out there, sometimes I believe that they might also want to try out something different from what they ususally do. Hence a good time to try things out and experiment with it. Also, it isn't gonna be cheap if one shoots portrait shots very often with models that charge.
    Personally I disagree with this, if any novice photographers want to have nice photos of models, the more he/she should join a paid shoot, with guidance by the senior, organizer and experience models, the novice will have better results, and learn better.

    If the photographers know nothing much about posing, lighting, exposure, composition etc. plus a inexperience model, just like a blind leading another blind.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    Personally I disagree with this, if any novice photographers want to have nice photos of models, the more he/she should join a paid shoot, with guidance by the senior, organizer and experience models, the novice will have better results, and learn better.

    If the photographers know nothing much about posing, lighting, exposure, composition etc. plus a inexperience model, just like a blind leading another blind.
    well, true enough... I do see your point. There was once I went for a free photoshoot @ bugis organised by Canon, I totally learn nothing much there. My second studio shoot was a paid one, indeed learnt quite a lot... but just like after attending a lesson from sch, you still need to do some homeork on your own... some time to experiment and you can't be asking for help all the time. TFP/TFCD provides a good own time own target "training"... of course, you can also ask your family members, relatives, friends etc to be your model(s) too...
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  14. #14
    Senior Member Virgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Pro models and newbie photographers - photographers pay
    Newbie models and pro photographers - models pay
    Newbie models and newbie photographers - all pay
    Pro models and pro photographers - all pay

    If one offers to pay willingly, by all means. If you feel kenna exploited, then don't pay in the first place! If the model very chio and the photographers offer to pay, also don't complain after that.
    Kind Regards
    My Picture Website

  15. #15
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    There is a price need to be paid for learning, how much can you learn from a free shoot?

    Yes, it is better to ask someone you know to pose for you, just one to one, you will learn better.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgo
    Pro models and newbie photographers - photographers pay
    Newbie models and pro photographers - models pay
    Newbie models and newbie photographers - all pay
    Pro models and pro photographers - all pay

    If one offers to pay willingly, by all means. If you feel kenna exploited, then don't pay in the first place! If the model very chio and the photographers offer to pay, also don't complain after that.


    Above works fine as a guide.. Of course some of you may vary or even pay for it cos you want to do it. It's ok. Just don't let the people/model think its the norm....

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    As a talent.. I won't mind to share the cost of the expenses if the work done is up to expectation. After all the purpose of TFCD is to cut cost for both parties.. but if the cost shared will sum up to the cost of going to a makeover studio's package, then there's no point to do tfcd. Budget it out and compromise before engaging in anything.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Virgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on Time for Print / CD

    My style is: since it's a TFCD/TFP, and both parties benefited from it, I always suggest go dutch on the expenses involved. Give and take. I'll never agree to pay for everything, unless I own the pics, and the model doesn't get anything.
    Kind Regards
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