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Thread: Can we take photos on the street?

  1. #41

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Well okay if you want to put it as that..maybe this is not so much an issue of photography alone but am matter of social interaction. Suffice it is to say some might not mind or just get a bit ticked off and drive on and not think of it any further. But you have to allow for the fact that if someone is not comfortable about it and actually stopped to ask why, it is within their rights to do so. The question here now will be how you as the photographer then handle it? Do you choose to make matters worst off or will you be willing to compromise? It might not be an invasion of privacy as per say. Maybe me or anyone else might have over use this term here over this talking point. But you can say it can be term as modesty in the case of the girl? For one reason or anther if she felt that your aiming a camera at her direction is disturbing and warrant an explanation from you it is within her rights. Remember the infamous website " SIngaporegirl.com" or something like that where these guys took picturess of girls in various manner and post them up for all to lewd at. When this come to light, how did you think some women reacted to that? If we want to really get into it...somany variables comes into play in real life instances. The thing is what line of action are we willing to take each time we go out to shoot and borderline situation like this crops up. The question is not the camera you hold and aim at someone but what people worry is the person holding that camera aiming at them. They are not sure of his motive.
    two things...

    1. ask for permission if possible for courtesy sake. otherwise i think it's ok to shoot. and if the person requests me to delete the pic? well like others have said, if they ask politely then can consider, but then again i'm not obliged to comply.

    2. as for shooting women in a lewd matter, that crosses the line. i think it has been pointed out before (was in the the press?). you can shoot anyone in public but if you shoot them with the intention of outraging their modesty then it comes a criminal offence.

  2. #42
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Everyone is still waiting for your basis of saying that there are "rights".

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Well okay if you want to put it as that..maybe this is not so much an issue of photography alone but am matter of social interaction. Suffice it is to say some might not mind or just get a bit ticked off and drive on and not think of it any further. But you have to allow for the fact that if someone is not comfortable about it and actually stopped to ask why, it is within their rights to do so. The question here now will be how you as the photographer then handle it? Do you choose to make matters worst off or will you be willing to compromise? It might not be an invasion of privacy as per say. Maybe me or anyone else might have over use this term here over this talking point. But you can say it can be term as modesty in the case of the girl? For one reason or anther if she felt that your aiming a camera at her direction is disturbing and warrant an explanation from you it is within her rights. Remember the infamous website " SIngaporegirl.com" or something like that where these guys took picturess of girls in various manner and post them up for all to lewd at. When this come to light, how did you think some women reacted to that? If we want to really get into it...somany variables comes into play in real life instances. The thing is what line of action are we willing to take each time we go out to shoot and borderline situation like this crops up. The question is not the camera you hold and aim at someone but what people worry is the person holding that camera aiming at them. They are not sure of his motive.

  3. #43
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Not sure abt the others, my only discussion on rights is just to find out what the basis at law is. Once that is done, the next step is then to discuss whether its morally right to do so.

    The only thing I'm concerned about is not for what rights and what laws and what penalties supposedly exist, to be made without basis. The moral stand is something that can be discussed as opinions, but the law/rights/penalties shoudl not be stated as facts when they are merely opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    To me it is a sad day when the feeling/concern of the subject is subjugated to the "rights" of the photographer.

    There is an interesting observation on the types of words used in photography: "Aim", "Shoot", "Capture".

    So aggressive!

    This is an attitude that is so prevalent in certain societies - and appears to me a catalyst/cause for many unhappy neighbourhood quarrels.

    I am no lawyer nor am I familiar with whatever sections of the laws.

    I like street photography and like to photograph people on the streets. To me, "my rights" is totally immaterial if the subject is uncomfortable with me pointing my camera at him/her.

    In my viewpoint, what is that picture anyway? I am but an amateur photographer amusing myself. Why do I consider my personal amusement more important than the other person's discomfort? Is it really that important?

    In this particular instance - is the "principle" of "rights" so very important?

  4. #44

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs
    two things...

    1. ask for permission if possible for courtesy sake. otherwise i think it's ok to shoot. and if the person requests me to delete the pic? well like others have said, if they ask politely then can consider, but then again i'm not obliged to comply.

    2. as for shooting women in a lewd matter, that crosses the line. i think it has been pointed out before (was in the the press?). you can shoot anyone in public but if you shoot them with the intention of outraging their modesty then it comes a criminal offence.
    I always ask for permission to photograph a person when I am obviously photographing the person. I used to " sneak" so called "candid" shots. But no more.

    You imply that if you do not "shoot" the lady in a lewd manner, then it is OK?

    Heard of photoshop? That you can put that face in a "porno" body? You may not be malicious in your intent. But how is that lady to know your actual purpose of taking her image?

  5. #45

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Not sure abt the others, my only discussion on rights is just to find out what the basis at law is. Once that is done, the next step is then to discuss whether its morally right to do so.

    The only thing I'm concerned about is not for what rights and what laws and what penalties supposedly exist, to be made without basis. The moral stand is something that can be discussed as opinions, but the law/rights/penalties shoudl not be stated as facts when they are merely opinions.
    I think it is fair and right to know the basis of our "rights".

    Frankly I think the issue is rather "muddy", and I would like to know the "laws" governing photography here.

    But there are obvious cross-neighbours problems that could be lessened if only some would not insist on their rights. Sometimes more could be achieved in other ways.

  6. #46
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Agreed, now we shall all await sammy888's advice on the rights he says he knows for a fact exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    I think it is fair and right to know the basis of our "rights".

    Frankly I think the issue is rather "muddy", and I would like to know the "laws" governing photography here.

    But there are obvious cross-neighbours problems that could be lessened if only some would not insist on their rights. Sometimes more could be achieved in other ways.

  7. #47
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    By the way, the above is only intended to clarify the basis of your statements in your posts - I do not express any view taken on the acts discussed in this thread.
    That is a good thing that you did. I am unsure if you are lawyer or just a person who is very familiar with the law. But you should step up and informed everyone what those laws are as the conversation goes. I admit in a way I was baiting you...simply because I have noticed alot of your writing and comment style follows a pattern. You alway need to be given just the right opening then you would come in to share your knowledge on the matter. You have alot of sensible tips and yes you are very right on almost all of your remarks at me. You could have done so in the begining and save us a whole lot of ranting but that would not be style nor impressive.

    In any case, this is just an issue for much debate as I say and much more would be exchange in the course of this thread. As to how much rights or privacy? About citizen's arrest to exercising my rights as I know it well...yes...I said a mouthful didn't I? If anything, I was making a personal point that it is easier to deal with the situation properly at the start and amiacably then to let it blow up to a point where things get too hot and egos are rubbed raw and at play in a public domain with onlookers watching you. Very muchlike now with this thread.

    Yes I know about citizen's arrest but I also know not everyone is well aware how to use it properly and done wrong it can be bad for the one invoking this act or just by simply detaining him/her. ( why you think I mentioned I will follow up around while I call for the police?) Citizen's arrest for those who don't know is practiced mainly by aux police and security guards. A citizen arrest does not amount to the same degree as one made by a Police Office of the state. So you still have to handover the person to the police. And you have to also answer their questioning as to why you make that arrest. Wrongful arrest is a serious issue. I would not say this will be the case in 99% of all incidents involving a roaming hobby photographer but then it also depends on the severity of the situation. ( Like you caught him photographing security installation for example) And detainment or restraining another persons' movement is illegal in most cases unless you are aware and there is probable cause for doing so. And no I will not say that anything I mentioned in my earlier message is something I would advice anyone to take. I was merely saying those could be my actions and I do so knowing how and when to push or use the laws simply because I have some know how with the situation given that I was a NS Police Reservist previously. And thank you for reminding me the penal codes for statutory rape..etc. I was making a point..it was a poor choice for an example and taken to extreme but hey I guess maybe you can come up with one to best state how an individual still have certain rights, protection..etc even when he/she leaves home and not just when you are within you own home confine.

    If I did not clearly indicate that this was my own reaction to take then I do apologise to everyone who reads it.

    The whole bunch of stuff I brought out about this and that..well....in the end as you can see from my reply and as Vince's have showed in the end, it can get complicated, borderline speculative and troublesome.

    We are speaking or debating in general. The situation can be or can get from very simple to as complicated an issue as you want it to be. So the thing is as I have maintain all along is how will you play your part in such situation? Blow up and make a big thing out of it or just try to work it out nicely with the other party.

    If someone approached me, asked me why I shot a picture of him or his establishment or whatever. What is the harm in telling him and explain things to him. And if they say I can't and I should delete it. Then I would. Simple. There is no lost of face. By taking that picture(s) I create the situation so I should be able to steer my way out of it without turning it into bad thing. Life's too short. Why turn a perfectly good day out shooting into a complicated situation that haunts you day and night after that? This is not just about shooting picture on the public street. This is about social responsibility and interaction. How hard is that? But of course if you want to get drama over it and pay a blood sucking lawyer to fight your case in court well that is your perogative too. But as a hobbist, no picture is worth all the hassle.
    Last edited by sammy888; 4th January 2006 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #48
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    To me it is a sad day when the feeling/concern of the subject is subjugated to the "rights" of the photographer.

    There is an interesting observation on the types of words used in photography: "Aim", "Shoot", "Capture".

    So aggressive!

    This is an attitude that is so prevalent in certain societies - and appears to me a catalyst/cause for many unhappy neighbourhood quarrels.

    I am no lawyer nor am I familiar with whatever sections of the laws.

    I like street photography and like to photograph people on the streets. To me, "my rights" is totally immaterial if the subject is uncomfortable with me pointing my camera at him/her.

    In my viewpoint, what is that picture anyway? I am but an amateur photographer amusing myself. Why do I consider my personal amusement more important than the other person's discomfort? Is it really that important?

    In this particular instance - is the "principle" of "rights" so very important?
    Sometime "rights" is not about what's governed by law of the state but rights as in the ground of morality or human decency. Unfortunately not all rights in that sense can be uphold in court. What rights you have today can be overturn in the next. Depending on the situation and the various variable at play. Rights or whatever you want to call it. In the end, who wins or lose in court is not always easy to say. It might be a combination of little things all put together to come out with that judgement. But sometime, add in one other thing and the ruling can go the other way too.

    But yes I agree with you regarding ""Aim", "Shoot", "Capture". So aggressive!"
    Last edited by sammy888; 4th January 2006 at 12:22 PM.

  9. #49
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Not sure abt the others, my only discussion on rights is just to find out what the basis at law is. Once that is done, the next step is then to discuss whether its morally right to do so.

    The only thing I'm concerned about is not for what rights and what laws and what penalties supposedly exist, to be made without basis. The moral stand is something that can be discussed as opinions, but the law/rights/penalties shoudl not be stated as facts when they are merely opinions.
    Then please state the fact as you see it. The rules are there or not? If you have a list that stipulate the rights of each citizen..etc. Then let us have them even if it is only a few. I can try to go dig up more too if you like. You are just hinting over the fact you know I am wrong or am coming up short but you rather play this charade out. Why is that? If you are concern. State your case as you know it. You are already being seen as someone who is knowledgeable then me. What more can you milk out of me to put you in a better light? why taunt me out further? I live and die by the hole I dig for myself. My right does not translate always to mean the rights of any particular laws. But it does not mean I have no right to ask like I am asking you now. So do you choose to answer me? If not, that is fine too as it is your god given right not to. Or should that right not apply since it has nothing to do with the rights as dictated in the nation's book of law?

    So, give us your view and state the rules that you know so we CAN start to discuss. Let us all put all our chips on the table, all the ruling, actual personal rights as given to each citizen of Singapore. And then once and for all we can all know what is what. Thus we cal all be better for it. I can learn from my mistake or learn to take a difference route by what I can gain here?

    And given to similarity in the topic. This is what I mean, if you could have clearly come in and gave us your view as someone fully aware of the laws, right..etc. We coul dhave avoided all this long message heheh.. This is exactly the problem or situation I was advocating to avoid when taking photograph in the street and you are called out by the person you shot!

    Balls is not in your court as the saying goes.....I am willing to learn if you have anything to teach. Mock me further if you need to but please teach us if you have something you could do to help me and anyone here know better about our Rights. Morally and/or Legally.
    Last edited by sammy888; 4th January 2006 at 12:42 PM.

  10. #50
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    This is a very interesting site you guys might want to check out..concern various laws, definition and acts of Singapore. Worth a read and see what where it will lead us to find out what personal rights we all have and other rights and stuff too.

    http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_versi.../homepage.html
    Last edited by sammy888; 4th January 2006 at 01:06 PM.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Well, if you are michael yamashita... then I suppose you can happily go around snapping every candid shot..... hehehe....

    Or just get urself a bigma.....
    Yo can just go shooting riced cars and their seedy inhabitants from ur bigmama distance... hehehhe

  12. #52

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    good the woman didn't want to poke your eyes, because u have seen her.

    But if she happens to be a mistress or whatever reason, actually that's her problem.. ^_^

    But as a photographer, if you want to photo something and u think the person will get offended then don't do it, or if u want to do it, do it without getting noticed. if you get scolded or chase or get cursed, that's your problem, just run away..^_^

    Well, even there is a law n regulation blah blah blah, but who has time for something like this ha?

    Since the DSLR is getting cheap, people started to buy bulky professional look camera strolling the street.. well, what? you use that to do candid shot? ... mm...

    there are so many guys strolling the street with big DSLR, it gets bigger with a grip..then, it is used to take a tourist type V finger shot on his gf.. well, sth a compact camera can do, or set up a tripod, tilting the big camera, with the gal in waiting for the camera ready, and keep asking the gal what to do, and taking a long time to do the setting on camera..

    Well, why kill a chicken with a butcher knife for cow? ^_^" ha..just personal opinion..ha
    Last edited by LENS; 4th January 2006 at 02:53 PM.

  13. #53
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    [I admit in a way I was baiting you...simply because I have noticed alot of your writing and comment style follows a pattern. You alway need to be given just the right opening then you would come in to share your knowledge on the matter.


    Nice recovery – so I gather that you were just stating what you believe to be “rights” JUST so as to bait me to ask what your basis is for saying them? And that everything that you have said on supposed “rights/penalties/laws” are actually incorrect and that it was just used as “bait”?


    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Then please state the fact as you see it. The rules there is or not? You are just hinting over the fact you know I am wrong but you rather play this charade out. Why is that? If you are concern. State your fact as you know it. You are already being seen as someone who is knowledgeable then me. What more can you milk out of me to put you in a better light? why taunt me out further? I live and die by the hole I dig for myself. My right does not translate alwaysto mean the rights of any particular laws. But it does not mean I have no right to ask like I am asking you know. So do you choose to answer me? If not, that is fine too as it is your god given right not to. Or should that right not apply since it has nothing to do with the rights as dictated in the nation's book of law?


    Whether I state the facts as I see it is immaterial – I am just asking you for your basis for making those statements – I may or may not have the correct answer to your question, but I think there's certainly nothing wrong to ask for your basis for proposing the statements you hold out as absolute facts. There’s no need to compete on who is more knowledgeable or put anyone in any form of light – there was never any intention to do so.

    If you say its your “right” and now you say its not rights under law, then what rights are there? It’s no longer a right but your opinion. In any case, I did think you were talking about rights under law:

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    If they rather you not shoot it, that is their right and the law will protect them for it.


    Whether you are right or wrong is also immaterial – I’m merely asking for your basis of your statements. If you have basis, you will be right.

    I am not taunting you, I’m just asking to see if you have any basis for proposing those statements as facts, and the way you’ve put it sounds like you are VERY VERY sure – in that case, please provide the basis for your statements. If they are just opinions, please state them as such, and not put them forth as facts which may mislead others. I refer again to your quote here:

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Want to know for sure if what I say is true or backed by fact?...this much I am sure personally.


    Yes I want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    So, give us your view and state the rules that you know so we CAN start to discuss. Let us all put all our chips on the table, all the ruling, actual personal rights as given to each citizen of Singapore. And then once and for all we can all know what is what. Thus we cal all be better for it. I can learn from my mistake or learn to take a difference route by what I can gain here?


    Well, I just requite my earlier statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    If you wish to take action against the photographer, you would need to rely on rights prescribed under law. It is difficult for anyone to prove a negative (ie that no laws exist), but since you're sure, perhaps you could enlighten us on what laws/rights you are seeking to enforce against the photographer. Case law or statutes would be most helpful.


    I am unaware of any laws prescribing rights that you may have to take action against the photographer in this situation.

    In summary, I’m not arguing with you whether you are right or wrong or laws or morals – I’m just saying, if you are holding out certain legal concepts or rights as FACTS, you should be prepared to state the basis on which you are saying them. If you wish to state an opinion, then say its an opinion (ie, “I think you should do this, or not do this”, not “the law says you can do this” or “its within your rights to do this”.

    Edited since you added this part in:

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    And given to similarity in the topic. This is what I mean, if you could have clearly come in and gave us your view as someone fully aware of the laws, right..etc. We coul dhave avoided all this long message heheh.. This is exactly the problem or situation I was advocating to avoid when taking photograph in the street and you are called out by the person you shot!
    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888

    Mock me further if you need to but please teach us if you have something you could do to help me and anyone here know better about our Rights. Morally and/or Legally.
    No one is mocking anyone…not sure why you think I’m mocking you. I never said that I was fully aware of anything – I’m just asking if you have basis for saying what you say, especially since you say it with such a firm tone of conviction and without any doubt. Is there anything wrong with that?

  14. #54

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    I always ask for permission to photograph a person when I am obviously photographing the person. I used to " sneak" so called "candid" shots. But no more.

    You imply that if you do not "shoot" the lady in a lewd manner, then it is OK?

    Heard of photoshop? That you can put that face in a "porno" body? You may not be malicious in your intent. But how is that lady to know your actual purpose of taking her image?
    i think that will come down to personal judgement. some people prefer to ask for permission, some prefer to shoot candids. its not for me to question the reasons why a photographer want to shoot a lady. btw...since you mention photoshop, asking for permission doesn't guarantee that the photographer will not "put that face in a porno body". so i would consider that a seperate issue.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs
    i think that will come down to personal judgement. some people prefer to ask for permission, some prefer to shoot candids. its not for me to question the reasons why a photographer want to shoot a lady. btw...since you mention photoshop, asking for permission doesn't guarantee that the photographer will not "put that face in a porno body". so i would consider that a seperate issue.
    You are absolutely right that it is a separate issue. There is no question about it! I can always scan a picture of Fann Wong and put her face on a pronography site. I do not even need to do photography.

    And perhaps that is one of the reasons (there are thousands of reasons why people do not like people to take their pictures - particularly strangers!) why ladies and even man may loathe their pictures taken.

    However, when a photographer approaches a person to request to photograph her/him, the "subject" can at least "assess" the intent of the photographer. Sure this is not foolproof, but at least the "subject" feels that the photog respects him/her.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    It's about the attitude of certain groups of car owners here unfortunately.It's been the case with many of those who have lots of illegal mods or certain "history" to their car..

    but heck them..
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  17. #57
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    I am not taunting you, I’m just asking to see if you have any basis for proposing those statements as facts, and the way you’ve put it sounds like you are VERY VERY sure – in that case, please provide the basis for your statements. If they are just opinions, please state them as such, and not put them forth as facts which may mislead others. I refer again to your quote here

    No one is mocking anyone…not sure why you think I’m mocking you. I never said that I was fully aware of anything – I’m just asking if you have basis for saying what you say, especially since you say it with such a firm tone of conviction and without any doubt. Is there anything wrong with that? [/FONT][/COLOR]

    yawn... Sorry been busy with work thus the late banter.... I stand by what I think about you..subject ended. Want to get into it. PM in private. You can even put it all back here later if you want to air it again or a special thread. This is not an issue about right in its most rigid sense. I explain myself good enough and if anyone here has an issue to have it out with me. I am more then fine with it. I don't like your tone. Not ever. Not just here but in other threads too. I just wanted to see when you will reel your little head into the discussion on specific topics. And as usual, instead of reading what I wrote as a whole, you like to strip it a part and argue it as you see it or the way you think it should be seen. To me frankly, I have seen you do that to others and I feel that is not right nor your "right" ( there is that word again) to use that approach with people here. I am not interested in no pissing contest here. You want to argue further take this up with me in private. I dont' want to bother people's thread with our situation. I just draw the last straw on you for some time now. But then again I guess we can't always be friend with everyone in here. I usual am abit of a rant. Granted. But I have alway maintain the stance that my words are only for consideration like everyone elses but not the difinitive even if I am passionate about it. So what? You fault me for that? As I said, I live and die by my sword. KNow what that means? If I err on anyone's right or whatever action deem wrong, I will stand firm and take it like a man. Do you have that moral fibre to stand up and state your claim. Mano A Mano? You want to just read the news or make your own news? I hold my tougue back most of the time. I just decided to make an exception with you. Sorry you might have caught me on the wrong day. I am still speaking my mind about it as you can see and as I said I follow my own conviction as I see it. People are welcome to read it, take it or leave it and yes question it if you want. Critize it loub and bad here too for all I care. I give you that right. ( that word again now am I using it correctly here now? hmm? ) You just like to gloat and seek those instances whenever you can that is even worst so I might as well hemp it up abit more and see if I can get a raise out of you and i guess I did. So there now you know. What' cha gonna do? Sue me? Stalk me? You have that right? Yes I guess you do have that right even if it is not written in stone. You want to really get into the issue of rights? Or maybe that might be the wrong choice of word. Big deal. I never claim I was big on english words. In Singapore? Rights in singapore are the least favorable to the individual ( or have you not heard about that in the International Amnesty report on our nation?) if you want to know. But then again I suspect you already know that and you know how to work within those bondary to abuse it or retreat to it as and when you feel like it. In fact you are the living example of it. So maybe you make a good case study regarding this. So. PM me. I was thinking of sending you this but then...well I thought this would be a good closure before I take this battle to you in private. Go on. I love a good rumble.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausage
    Of course I didn't delete it, but I was just wondering, why is everyone so scared of appearing in photographs these days? It's as if they committed some crime and are afraid of being identified.
    if she ask politely why should you not delete it? It's called courtesy.

    yes, taking photo on the street is your right, but asking the photo to be removed also the other people's right. When two rights collide, it's where courtesy comes in place. And that's what differentiate human being and animal.

    I'm just wondering why is everyone think like they are always right when holding a camera.

    Think about it, when you are walking happily with your girlfriend in orchard road, and then I come with a camera, shoot at you, saying that your shirt looks nice and I just walk away. Will you feel happy with that?
    Last edited by popeye; 5th January 2006 at 02:58 PM.

  19. #59
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    What a mouthful - since there's no new information on the subject matter relating to this thread's discussion, I assume you've closed your position.

    Now, in your "quest" against me, feel free to pm me if you wish, I'll be waiting for you. I will respond when you pm me, even if its a cut and paste of this entire post. Thing is, we are deviating too far from the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    yawn... Sorry been busy with work thus the late banter.... I stand by what I think about you..subject ended. Want to get into it. PM in private. You can even put it all back here later if you want to air it again or a special thread. This is not an issue about right in its most rigid sense. I explain myself good enough and if anyone here has an issue to have it out with me. I am more then fine with it. I don't like your tone. Not ever. Not just here but in other threads too. I just wanted to see when you will reel your little head into the discussion on specific topics. And as usual, instead of reading what I wrote as a whole, you like to strip it a part and argue it as you see it or the way you think it should be seen. To me frankly, I have seen you do that to others and I feel that is not right nor your "right" ( there is that word again) to use that approach with people here. I am not interested in no pissing contest here. You want to argue further take this up with me in private. I dont' want to bother people's thread with our situation. I just draw the last straw on you for some time now. But then again I guess we can't always be friend with everyone in here. I usual am abit of a rant. Granted. But I have alway maintain the stance that my words are only for consideration like everyone elses but not the difinitive even if I am passionate about it. So what? You fault me for that? As I said, I live and die by my sword. KNow what that means? If I err on anyone's right or whatever action deem wrong, I will stand firm and take it like a man. Do you have that moral fibre to stand up and state your claim. Mano A Mano? You want to just read the news or make your own news? I hold my tougue back most of the time. I just decided to make an exception with you. Sorry you might have caught me on the wrong day. I am still speaking my mind about it as you can see and as I said I follow my own conviction as I see it. People are welcome to read it, take it or leave it and yes question it if you want. Critize it loub and bad here too for all I care. I give you that right. ( that word again now am I using it correctly here now? hmm? ) You just like to gloat and seek those instances whenever you can that is even worst so I might as well hemp it up abit more and see if I can get a raise out of you and i guess I did. So there now you know. What' cha gonna do? Sue me? Stalk me? You have that right? Yes I guess you do have that right even if it is not written in stone. You want to really get into the issue of rights? Or maybe that might be the wrong choice of word. Big deal. I never claim I was big on english words. In Singapore? Rights in singapore are the least favorable to the individual ( or have you not heard about that in the International Amnesty report on our nation?) if you want to know. But then again I suspect you already know that and you know how to work within those bondary to abuse it or retreat to it as and when you feel like it. In fact you are the living example of it. So maybe you make a good case study regarding this. So. PM me. I was thinking of sending you this but then...well I thought this would be a good closure before I take this battle to you in private. Go on. I love a good rumble.
    Last edited by vince123123; 5th January 2006 at 03:01 PM.

  20. #60
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    And perhaps that is one of the reasons (there are thousands of reasons why people do not like people to take their pictures - particularly strangers!) why ladies and even man may loathe their pictures taken.
    I have nothing against someone shooting a candid street scenes but maybe it is about upbringing and being sensitive to other people's space. Whether you are the subject or the photographer, ultimately if you think hard enough, either side would be able to come up with enough justification for shooting or to stop you from doing so. I strongly believe there is a middle ground and that is communication. Singapore as I realise this after shooting all this time, peole usually hate surpises. Asians in general are very private people and maybe more so in Singapore. Take your neighbour for example, how many here really know or interact with them? I admit that though rare, I catch myself sometime abit upset when I see a lens aiming at me. Especially if I was caught in an embrassing situation like scratching my ass and I hear that camera click. heheh But then again, thinking it further..hey I too might have shot it as it might look funny. But if I tell the guy not to keep that shot as it too embrassing, I would hope he/she would delete it. (okay maybe inside I expect him to erase it heh ) Not due to right or wrong but out of simple respect for my privacy when I say no. But if he feels for some reason he wants to keep it? I most likely would say fine. But if he gets defensive and nasty. That is a difference story. Do I have the right to tell him off for not asking? I guess I do but would I? Usually with abit of good will and good nature reaction, this kind of situation rarely turn bad.

    For hobbist photographers wanting to shoot street scenes like the way famous photojournalist or photographers do, don't imagine they really get to shoot all those shots without ever being told off, threaten with law suit or worst..threaten with bodily harms. Some of the most common reasons why they can shot so many wonderful candid shots and usually the subjects are comfortable with them is due to the close rapport the photographer build with the subject or community they photograph. It is not like Steve McCurry who shot that famous picture of the Afghan Girl just walks into the Afghanistan rufugee camp and start clicking away. But again it also depends on where you are. I notice when i was shooting in thailand, people are always willing to let you shoot. And in some places...you shoot their picture, they will demand money from you and if you don't give, you could be in for some problem. If you smile alot and interact with them and just be polite and respectful, it is not hard to find people opening up to let you shoot away...and since they are more at ease, you get more natural candid reaction with them. To me I think that not only teaches you to shoot better but also teaches you humanity and improve your interactive skills with people. But yes there would be those who use long lens heh. Nothing wrong with that. I guess for those situation you avoid any immediate problem. But if you choose to sell the picture or use it in some ad, would there be problems later? Maybe or maybe not. Even if it did, if you choose to deal with it fairly and open minded I doubt it will turn bad. But of course there will be days you will meet one of those kiasu type who will make you wish you could kill them That's my two bit view hor..

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