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Thread: Can we take photos on the street?

  1. #21
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Well most of the GT wings nowadays are installed primarily for aesthetic reasons, not downforce.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2100
    Yeah i know. Those are not exactly the true blue technically speaking GT wings lar.....just for aesthetics and not to tweak the rear end or provide any real downforce.

    Anyway, I have no idea why FF cars wanna have GT wings....so that they can't corner at high speeds? Maybe in SG it's not a problem, but if the boneheads dare try stints on the NS highway or PG, may they be blessed man....

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2100
    S14 or S15? With GT wing. They are scared of the traffic police asking them to go down to LTA lar. Coz you know, with the licence plate.

    Anyway, if they are so scared then don't play tiong chia lar. Sigh...

    But seriously a GT wing is one of the worst investment, along with a mod exhaust. Sure get taken down. Might as well lup turbo or semi-slicks, at least can more or less use it.
    Regardless of what that lady said, I would not delete it.What gives them the right to demand it?If they do not wish to draw attention to their car, jolly well leave it at home and not act like some crybaby.

    Poofters.

    (a gold S15 you say..hmm...)
    Last edited by LazerLordz; 3rd January 2006 at 12:22 AM.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    If she requested nicely, I'll prolly smile and delete it. And den swap CFs so dat I can retrieve using image recovery software later.

    But if she demanded and ordered me to delete it? Sorry, I'm no taking orders from anyone especially a woman. Even if she's in military uniform with strips and crabs on her collar lapel and threaten to charge me for some unknown charge. She can go ahead and see if she can charge me.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  4. #24
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausage
    Last night at 9 pm, I was around a traffic junction in Orchard when a very nice tuned car came by and stopped at the traffic light. It was a gold Silvia, with GT wing, very nice modded headlights and lots of decals on the sides. Beautiful, I thought, so I took a photo of it.

    After that I walked down to the Heeren, and as I was about to enter I heard a woman calling behind me.

    "Excuse me! Excuse me! Just now you took a photo of our car right? I want you to delete it!"

    It was the passenger in the car, who had apparently got off at the earlier junction and chased me down the street.

    Of course I didn't delete it, but I was just wondering, why is everyone so scared of appearing in photographs these days? It's as if they committed some crime and are afraid of being identified.
    Hey man.No offend but.....

    I don't want to "rain on your parade" But I notice you have wrote another times about the same thing of shooting in public and you feel you got a bad rap about it.

    But have you ever considered...that buying a camera may allow you to take pictures but that does not give you the right to infringed on people privacy in whatever form people define as personal and private. Buying a car does nto mean I can drive into anyone's property or buying a meal at a restaurant means I am entitled to walk into the admin office and look around where the staff and management work...etc.

    You might think you are just shooting a cool looking car but life is NOT that simple bro. She could be a mistress, she could be just sensitive (modesty)to people taking her photo (being a woman), she might think you were shooting into the car and aiming at certain portions of her body but pretend to be shooting the car, she might not be posing too decently from within the car..it could be a number of reasons but whatever that reason might be, that is his/her perogative and perception at that moment you starting aiming your camera at her. She might not even think it has to do with the car. You feel she has infringed on your "privacy" to use your personal equipment to photograph her and the car? You can not have your cake and eat it by yourself if you feel they don't have the right to question your motive. It works both was. Fact: People or management may not want you to take pictures of them. Full stop. It is their given right and given right to stop you if need be. They pay for the property, object or simply about being photo themselves..whatever. If they rather you not shoot it, that is their right and the law will protect them for it. Just like you have the right to owning your own camera and not let anyone touch it, borrow it, take it away from you with your permission or photograph you using it. There is not right or wrong here...it is all about respect, privacy and rights to property. And expect people to react nicely to you, smile and ask you politely to delete the pictures when you infringedon their rights??? Tell me...if you repeat those commands to yourself 100 times. Does it make any god given sense?
    You walk out of a department store with a load full of unpaid things and the store security pulls you back into the store and ask you why you did not pay for the items before leaving the store. So you going to expect the security staff to smile at you and talk nicely to you if not you will not give them back the goods or pay for it? That might not be the best analogy but you get my picture right? You poke someone hard in the rids and the victim should be happy you did it and not be offended if not you will not say sorry?

    I have shot alot of stuff in the last 20+ yrs and alot are for my own viewing pleasure. If I choose to use any of the picture in one of my advertisement project, I would choose things that has no people in them or if they do and I could contact them, then have them sign a release note...especially if there is monetary gain. When money or profit is involve good will can turn bad very fast and people will start to sue you for a part of the profit. Any professional photographer will testify to that for a fact. Every person has their rights to privacy and if they choose to, they can exercise it legally against you. They don't know you from Adam and here you go shooting off a few shots of their car..what did you expect them or anyone else to think? Put yourself in their position and I hope you will NOT use the excuse of " I am only just shooting the pictures because I like the car or for your own use only mah. Prove to me and everyone how you could have visually indicated or have some flashing sign above you telling others your shooting of their car was really all innocent and do not mean to surprise or shock them with your intention? You shot the car and walk off.

    Let me tell you how I shoot people or buildings and I have never once got anyone turn me down. I normally will ask them for their permission. 95% will say yes and they will personally move off as they are too shy to be included in the picture. They say they not good looking, too old or not dress proper..etc. Fine. The thing is they let me shoot. After I shot what I need, I thank them and walk away. Sometime they ask me for pictures if I could spare them. I will try to give them some prints if I did ( in the past with film, now with DSLR , I email them..and sometime made a friend and also I get to go back to shoot again.)

    Just a friendly advice brudder....please consider it over and be sensitive to other's privacy and feeling. Just becasue they come out of their house into public area does not means they are fair game for your photographic adventure.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    The advice is good and wise. My advice is also the same, if the guy who's asking you to delete the pix is holding a parang, you better think about what is more important-- your life or your pix.

    But I would like to point out that the right of a photographer to take pix in public should not be questioned. No one has a right to privacy in a public place. There are legal principles on these issues-- you can search the Net.

    However, your advice is good from a moral standpoint. If your pix causes someone pain or suffering or agony, to insist on your rights as a photographer is not becoming.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Hey man.No offend but.....

    I don't want to "rain on your parade" But I notice you have wrote another times about the same thing of shooting in public and you feel you got a bad rap about it.

    But have you ever considered...that buying a camera may allow you to take pictures but that does not give you the right to infringed on people privacy in whatever form people define as personal and private. Buying a car does nto mean I can drive into anyone's property or buying a meal at a restaurant means I am entitled to walk into the admin office and look around where the staff and management work...etc.

    You might think you are just shooting a cool looking car but life is NOT that simple bro. She could be a mistress, she could be just sensitive (modesty)to people taking her photo (being a woman), she might think you were shooting into the car and aiming at certain portions of her body but pretend to be shooting the car, she might not be posing too decently from within the car..it could be a number of reasons but whatever that reason might be, that is his/her perogative and perception at that moment you starting aiming your camera at her. She might not even think it has to do with the car. You feel she has infringed on your "privacy" to use your personal equipment to photograph her and the car? You can not have your cake and eat it by yourself if you feel they don't have the right to question your motive. It works both was. Fact: People or management may not want you to take pictures of them. Full stop. It is their given right and given right to stop you if need be. They pay for the property, object or simply about being photo themselves..whatever. If they rather you not shoot it, that is their right and the law will protect them for it. Just like you have the right to owning your own camera and not let anyone touch it, borrow it, take it away from you with your permission or photograph you using it. There is not right or wrong here...it is all about respect, privacy and rights to property. And expect people to react nicely to you, smile and ask you politely to delete the pictures when you infringedon their rights??? Tell me...if you repeat those commands to yourself 100 times. Does it make any god given sense?
    You walk out of a department store with a load full of unpaid things and the store security pulls you back into the store and ask you why you did not pay for the items before leaving the store. So you going to expect the security staff to smile at you and talk nicely to you if not you will not give them back the goods or pay for it? That might not be the best analogy but you get my picture right? You poke someone hard in the rids and the victim should be happy you did it and not be offended if not you will not say sorry?

    I have shot alot of stuff in the last 20+ yrs and alot are for my own viewing pleasure. If I choose to use any of the picture in one of my advertisement project, I would choose things that has no people in them or if they do and I could contact them, then have them sign a release note...especially if there is monetary gain. When money or profit is involve good will can turn bad very fast and people will start to sue you for a part of the profit. Any professional photographer will testify to that for a fact. Every person has their rights to privacy and if they choose to, they can exercise it legally against you. They don't know you from Adam and here you go shooting off a few shots of their car..what did you expect them or anyone else to think? Put yourself in their position and I hope you will NOT use the excuse of " I am only just shooting the pictures because I like the car or for your own use only mah. Prove to me and everyone how you could have visually indicated or have some flashing sign above you telling others your shooting of their car was really all innocent and do not mean to surprise or shock them with your intention? You shot the car and walk off.

    Let me tell you how I shoot people or buildings and I have never once got anyone turn me down. I normally will ask them for their permission. 95% will say yes and they will personally move off as they are too shy to be included in the picture. They say they not good looking, too old or not dress proper..etc. Fine. The thing is they let me shoot. After I shot what I need, I thank them and walk away. Sometime they ask me for pictures if I could spare them. I will try to give them some prints if I did ( in the past with film, now with DSLR , I email them..and sometime made a friend and also I get to go back to shoot again.)

    Just a friendly advice brudder....please consider it over and be sensitive to other's privacy and feeling. Just becasue they come out of their house into public area does not means they are fair game for your photographic adventure.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Hey man.No offend but.....

    I don't want to "rain on your parade" But I notice you have wrote another times about the same thing of shooting in public and you feel you got a bad rap about it.

    But have you ever considered...that buying a camera may allow you to take pictures but that does not give you the right to infringed on people privacy in whatever form people define as personal and private. Buying a car does nto mean I can drive into anyone's property or buying a meal at a restaurant means I am entitled to walk into the admin office and look around where the staff and management work...etc.

    You might think you are just shooting a cool looking car but life is NOT that simple bro. She could be a mistress, she could be just sensitive (modesty)to people taking her photo (being a woman), she might think you were shooting into the car and aiming at certain portions of her body but pretend to be shooting the car, she might not be posing too decently from within the car..it could be a number of reasons but whatever that reason might be, that is his/her perogative and perception at that moment you starting aiming your camera at her. She might not even think it has to do with the car. You feel she has infringed on your "privacy" to use your personal equipment to photograph her and the car? You can not have your cake and eat it by yourself if you feel they don't have the right to question your motive. It works both was. Fact: People or management may not want you to take pictures of them. Full stop. It is their given right and given right to stop you if need be. They pay for the property, object or simply about being photo themselves..whatever. If they rather you not shoot it, that is their right and the law will protect them for it. Just like you have the right to owning your own camera and not let anyone touch it, borrow it, take it away from you with your permission or photograph you using it. There is not right or wrong here...it is all about respect, privacy and rights to property. And expect people to react nicely to you, smile and ask you politely to delete the pictures when you infringedon their rights??? Tell me...if you repeat those commands to yourself 100 times. Does it make any god given sense?
    You walk out of a department store with a load full of unpaid things and the store security pulls you back into the store and ask you why you did not pay for the items before leaving the store. So you going to expect the security staff to smile at you and talk nicely to you if not you will not give them back the goods or pay for it? That might not be the best analogy but you get my picture right? You poke someone hard in the rids and the victim should be happy you did it and not be offended if not you will not say sorry?

    I have shot alot of stuff in the last 20+ yrs and alot are for my own viewing pleasure. If I choose to use any of the picture in one of my advertisement project, I would choose things that has no people in them or if they do and I could contact them, then have them sign a release note...especially if there is monetary gain. When money or profit is involve good will can turn bad very fast and people will start to sue you for a part of the profit. Any professional photographer will testify to that for a fact. Every person has their rights to privacy and if they choose to, they can exercise it legally against you. They don't know you from Adam and here you go shooting off a few shots of their car..what did you expect them or anyone else to think? Put yourself in their position and I hope you will NOT use the excuse of " I am only just shooting the pictures because I like the car or for your own use only mah. Prove to me and everyone how you could have visually indicated or have some flashing sign above you telling others your shooting of their car was really all innocent and do not mean to surprise or shock them with your intention? You shot the car and walk off.

    Let me tell you how I shoot people or buildings and I have never once got anyone turn me down. I normally will ask them for their permission. 95% will say yes and they will personally move off as they are too shy to be included in the picture. They say they not good looking, too old or not dress proper..etc. Fine. The thing is they let me shoot. After I shot what I need, I thank them and walk away. Sometime they ask me for pictures if I could spare them. I will try to give them some prints if I did ( in the past with film, now with DSLR , I email them..and sometime made a friend and also I get to go back to shoot again.)

    Just a friendly advice brudder....please consider it over and be sensitive to other's privacy and feeling. Just becasue they come out of their house into public area does not means they are fair game for your photographic adventure.
    Well said!

    Respect for personal privacy.

    She had absolutely no idea EXACTLY what you were photographing, and what you intended to do with the photograph. You might turn out to be a photojournalist and show this cool image with her inside. Is she supposed to be there? Perhaps she had told her husband that she was away in London for a business meeting. See the implication?

    I think if you are taking a picture of the masses of people thronging Orchard Road, it might be fair. Your camera was not specifically pointing at someone. But I think even with this, if the person is clearly identified, it still might be a "no go" in France.
    Last edited by student; 3rd January 2006 at 11:33 AM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    There is the moral part and the legal part.

    The legal position of photographers' rights should be made very clear. What is allowed, what is off-limits, and what are the penalties for going beyond the limits, eg punishments for taking unauthorised photos of military installations.

    In the US there is a a lot of unhappiness post-911 as photographers are harrassed by police for taking pictures of a bridge or power station or govt building. This is perfectly legal, but the authorities there are just winging it and trampling on civil rights.

    However, within what is legal, we should as photographers consider whether what we do is in good faith, and for the betterment of society, or at least, whether it hurts anyone. The law gives you the right to be like the papperazi, but is that how you want to live your life and be remembered?

    Remember that in many countries, model releases are required for publication if the person can be identified clearly, even if the picture was taken in a public place. The reason is that you would have profited from that picture's publication, so a model release is needed to prove that he has given you the authorisation for publication.

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Well said!

    Respect for personal privacy.

    She had absolutely no idea EXACTLY what you were photographing, and what you intended to do with the photograph. You might turn out to be a photojournalist and show this cool image with her inside. Is she supposed to be there? Perhaps she had told her husband that she was away in London for a business meeting. See the implication?

    I think if you are taking a picture of the masses of people thronging Orchard Road, it might be fair. Your camera was not specifically pointing at someone. But I think even with this, if the person is clearly identified, it still might be a "no go" in France.

  8. #28
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Hmm you sure on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    If they rather you not shoot it, that is their right and the law will protect them for it.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Paparazzi

    but the reader like to read and see


  10. #30
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Hmm you sure on this?
    You sure you are not? Better to err on the side of caution then to be caught in a situation that you could have so easy avoid. When you are shooting, got caught or notice and you can not give a satisfying answer as to why you shot it, anyone have the right to asked it. To call on the police at the very least to query why you did it if things gets out of hand. It does not matter to me if you shot the picture because it was nice and it was for just part of your hobby or whatever but if I ask you nicely and you refuse to even entertain me with a answer or refuse to delete it. While you are trying to exercise whatever you can to get away with it. I WILL also exercise what ever rights I have to make sure I get an answer from you if I so choose to.

    Being in public might bring about some public ruling that differ from privacy clauses within your own home or private premises. But people still have certain privacy rights that protects them in some way in the public domain as well. If there was no such thing as personal privacy or rights, are you to say that once a girl leaves the safety of her home, anyone can rape her, harass or steal from her? If I have propable cause or suspicion of your intention for not telling me why you shot a picture of me, building or personal belonging and I have been in goodwill gave you the courtesy and oppoturnity to explain yourself and you refuse? I will exercise my right to performance a citizen's arrest if it come to that and I do observe all the ruling and justify my action, contact the Police and wait till they arrive to settle the issue. I will do everything in my power to keep you at the scene or follow you around while I make the call so I can keep trasck of you. So you want to get into that situation or you rather just show me what you shot and just tell me why? How hard would that be to avoid that scenario then to let it come to some dramatic legal BS just so you can feel good about have got away with some "casual pictures" . You can not be quick to infringe on people's right of privacy just because you feel like it but turn around and cry BLUE MURDER because now you got found out and the role is reverse. This is a situation that only you can start not them. It is not just about law or rule, it is about simple human decency and courtesy. What? Buy camera means you can go around town pretending to play Paparazzi? Or some crime fighter or photo journalist now? Comon. We are just a bunch of god damn photo hobbists. Why make people view us photo hobbist with such bad reputation and contempt. Yes, I have seen a lot of those black sheeps around and have cursed a few too. Sorry if my words do seem harsh and loud here it is NOT directed anyone one in specific. I am just going with the flow of the thread.

    Want to know for sure if what I say is true or backed by fact?...this much I am sure personally if I am the shooter. If I have nothing to hide why should I be making it so difficult to answer others why I shot the pictures or for what reason? Just because someone caught me shooting them, corners me and aske me why... straight away I now feel my rights as a camera totting person is violated? Rebel without a cause? heheh...comon. Use some common sense...think on your feet and respect others as you would want others to respect you for what you do. If you just can not shoot some scene or person or you are stopped from doing so by the owner? Accept it. Not shooting it will not lose you money, life or is the end of the world. There is alway something else to shoot.

    There are some battles in life that are worth fighting for. This is not one of them. And if you do..I would say to those who feel this way....give up photography and get a real life. You take yourself too seriously for all the wrong reasons....and worst for the sake of a hobby.

    There will always be those here who will contest what I say and will curse me for it. Fine. We all live by our own rules. These are mine. Flaming me would not change that but you are welcome to have your say. And no this is my last word on this, I don't have the heart to turn this into a flaming right or wrong slap-down war.
    Last edited by sammy888; 3rd January 2006 at 04:49 PM.

  11. #31
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Without expressing any view on the moral stand (ie "simple human decency and courtesy")that you have sought to put forth, my comments are as follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    You sure you are not?
    If you wish to take action against the photographer, you would need to rely on rights prescribed under law. It is difficult for anyone to prove a negative (ie that no laws exist), but since you're sure, perhaps you could enlighten us on what laws/rights you are seeking to enforce against the photographer. Case law or statutes would be most helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    While you are trying to exercise whatever you can to get away with it. I WILL also exercise what ever right I have to make sure I get an answer from you.
    Again, I'd ask what is the "whatever right I have" that you are referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    If there was no such thing as personal privacy or rights, are you to say that once a girl leaves the safety of her home, anyone can rape her, harass or steal from her?
    For the analogies you have provided, these are offences prescribed under for e.g., Sections 375 or 378 or 390. As before, we would all be grateful if you could let us know the specific laws which you say prescribes against photography in the situation under discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    I will exercise my right to performance a citizen's arrest if it come to that and I do observe all the ruling and justify my action, contact the Police and wait till they arrive to settle the issue.
    Do you know under what are the criteria before a "citizen's arrest" is allowed? Is photography in the situation above an offence on which a "citizen's arrest" is allowed? Perhaps you can refer to Section 34 of the Criminal Procedure Code.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    I will do everything in my power to keep you at the scene or follow you around while I make the call so I can keep trasck of you.
    Do note that you may be liable to an action for "false imprisonment" if you indeed do not have the right to detain any person.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Want to know for sure if what I say is true or backed by fact?...this much I am sure personally.
    Let us have the answers to the questions above if possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    And no this is my last word on this, I don't have the heart to turn this into a flaming rifht or wrong slap-down war.
    You might want to clarify on the above before putting your last word - lest people get confused over your (mis?)statements.

    By the way, the above is only intended to clarify the basis of your statements in your posts - I do not express any view taken on the acts discussed in this thread.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by lightning
    BTW, Eikin, you stay in Punggol? I just setup a forum for punggol residents...hope to get people into that forum to keep each other inform about the happenings in punggol. Check out http://www.punggol.org
    Wow, you set up a website and hosted it for the residents in Punggol! Won't you have to pay for hosting the website and for registering the name?

  13. #33

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    It appears Vince is well-informed about the laws here, which is good.

    So many people in S'pore are ignorant of their rights under the law, of the police's powers under the law, and live under all kinds of imagined restrictions and fears.

    Same as Vince, this is not about moral stand (ie what is right or what is wrong), but about what is legal and what is not. To the extent that the laws of the land affect us as photographers, we should understand our rights and obligations, so that we do not live under imagined restrictions and fears.


    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Without expressing any view on the moral stand (ie "simple human decency and courtesy")that you have sought to put forth, my comments are as follows:



    If you wish to take action against the photographer, you would need to rely on rights prescribed under law. It is difficult for anyone to prove a negative (ie that no laws exist), but since you're sure, perhaps you could enlighten us on what laws/rights you are seeking to enforce against the photographer. Case law or statutes would be most helpful.



    Again, I'd ask what is the "whatever right I have" that you are referring to.



    For the analogies you have provided, these are offences prescribed under for e.g., Sections 375 or 378 or 390. As before, we would all be grateful if you could let us know the specific laws which you say prescribes against photography in the situation under discussion.



    Do you know under what are the criteria before a "citizen's arrest" is allowed? Is photography in the situation above an offence on which a "citizen's arrest" is allowed? Perhaps you can refer to Section 34 of the Criminal Procedure Code.



    Do note that you may be liable to an action for "false imprisonment" if you indeed do not have the right to detain any person.



    Let us have the answers to the questions above if possible.



    You might want to clarify on the above before putting your last word - lest people get confused over your (mis?)statements.

    By the way, the above is only intended to clarify the basis of your statements in your posts - I do not express any view taken on the acts discussed in this thread.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    If she requested nicely, I'll prolly smile and delete it. And den swap CFs so dat I can retrieve using image recovery software later.

    But if she demanded and ordered me to delete it? Sorry, I'm no taking orders from anyone especially a woman. Even if she's in military uniform with strips and crabs on her collar lapel and threaten to charge me for some unknown charge. She can go ahead and see if she can charge me.
    heh...so sneaky if you plan to undelete the photo then might as well be upfront about it and politely turn down her request.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Hey man.No offend but.....

    I don't want to "rain on your parade" But I notice you have wrote another times about the same thing of shooting in public and you feel you got a bad rap about it.

    But have you ever considered...that buying a camera may allow you to take pictures but that does not give you the right to infringed on people privacy in whatever form people define as personal and private. Buying a car does nto mean I can drive into anyone's property or buying a meal at a restaurant means I am entitled to walk into the admin office and look around where the staff and management work...etc.

    You might think you are just shooting a cool looking car but life is NOT that simple bro. She could be a mistress, she could be just sensitive (modesty)to people taking her photo (being a woman), she might think you were shooting into the car and aiming at certain portions of her body but pretend to be shooting the car, she might not be posing too decently from within the car..it could be a number of reasons but whatever that reason might be, that is his/her perogative and perception at that moment you starting aiming your camera at her. She might not even think it has to do with the car. You feel she has infringed on your "privacy" to use your personal equipment to photograph her and the car? You can not have your cake and eat it by yourself if you feel they don't have the right to question your motive. It works both was. Fact: People or management may not want you to take pictures of them. Full stop. It is their given right and given right to stop you if need be. They pay for the property, object or simply about being photo themselves..whatever. If they rather you not shoot it, that is their right and the law will protect them for it. Just like you have the right to owning your own camera and not let anyone touch it, borrow it, take it away from you with your permission or photograph you using it. There is not right or wrong here...it is all about respect, privacy and rights to property. And expect people to react nicely to you, smile and ask you politely to delete the pictures when you infringedon their rights??? Tell me...if you repeat those commands to yourself 100 times. Does it make any god given sense?
    You walk out of a department store with a load full of unpaid things and the store security pulls you back into the store and ask you why you did not pay for the items before leaving the store. So you going to expect the security staff to smile at you and talk nicely to you if not you will not give them back the goods or pay for it? That might not be the best analogy but you get my picture right? You poke someone hard in the rids and the victim should be happy you did it and not be offended if not you will not say sorry?

    I have shot alot of stuff in the last 20+ yrs and alot are for my own viewing pleasure. If I choose to use any of the picture in one of my advertisement project, I would choose things that has no people in them or if they do and I could contact them, then have them sign a release note...especially if there is monetary gain. When money or profit is involve good will can turn bad very fast and people will start to sue you for a part of the profit. Any professional photographer will testify to that for a fact. Every person has their rights to privacy and if they choose to, they can exercise it legally against you. They don't know you from Adam and here you go shooting off a few shots of their car..what did you expect them or anyone else to think? Put yourself in their position and I hope you will NOT use the excuse of " I am only just shooting the pictures because I like the car or for your own use only mah. Prove to me and everyone how you could have visually indicated or have some flashing sign above you telling others your shooting of their car was really all innocent and do not mean to surprise or shock them with your intention? You shot the car and walk off.

    Let me tell you how I shoot people or buildings and I have never once got anyone turn me down. I normally will ask them for their permission. 95% will say yes and they will personally move off as they are too shy to be included in the picture. They say they not good looking, too old or not dress proper..etc. Fine. The thing is they let me shoot. After I shot what I need, I thank them and walk away. Sometime they ask me for pictures if I could spare them. I will try to give them some prints if I did ( in the past with film, now with DSLR , I email them..and sometime made a friend and also I get to go back to shoot again.)

    Just a friendly advice brudder....please consider it over and be sensitive to other's privacy and feeling. Just becasue they come out of their house into public area does not means they are fair game for your photographic adventure.
    i agree that we should not be using our camera to invade other ppl's privacy. but in this instance, we are talking about a car on orchard rd. i dont think invasion of privacy applies in this case. besides...what if the car is travelling in the middle of the rd? how to ask for permission?

  16. #36
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    To the extent that the laws of the land affect us as photographers, we should understand our rights and obligations, so that we do not live under imagined restrictions and fears.
    I couldn't agree more.

    If taking photos of a car in a busy public road which happens to contain someone's mistress at the back seat is an offence, I feel very sorry for the citizens of the country.

    We are well informed about the usage of photos containing private property or clear view of persons. But I haven't encountered a case that an amateur was sued for taking an innocuous photo in a public place for his hobby. You really need to stretch the definition of "invasion of privacy" in a case like this. I am not the only one here like to see it contested in the court of law.

    If we let "imagined restrictions and fears" rule our photography, the many great street photography taken with reflex and on impluse which we had seen and enjoyed would disappear. We would be all the poorer because of it.

  17. #37
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    I really love this quote by Waileong, and would repeat it here again:

    "So many people in S'pore are ignorant of their rights under the law, of the police's powers under the law, and live under all kinds of imagined restrictions and fears."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    We are well informed about the usage of photos containing private property or clear view of persons.
    Actually, it is also doubtful that action can be taken against photography of private property of "clear view of persons" per se (not counting defamatory use).

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    I couldn't agree more.

    If taking photos of a car in a busy public road which happens to contain someone's mistress at the back seat is an offence, I feel very sorry for the citizens of the country.

    We are well informed about the usage of photos containing private property or clear view of persons. But I haven't encountered a case that an amateur was sued for taking an innocuous photo in a public place for his hobby. You really need to stretch the definition of "invasion of privacy" in a case like this. I am not the only one here like to see it contested in the court of law.

    If we let "imagined restrictions and fears" rule our photography, the many great street photography taken with reflex and on impluse which we had seen and enjoyed would disappear. We would be all the poorer because of it.
    Sion's right..It's just a darn Silvia.What's the big deal?

    Lady, you're a mistress?Your guy's car has illegal mods?Well, ain't that too bad.You were on a public road and in this case, common sense and fair game takes precedence over whether you want extra exposure for your car.

    As I've said, if you don't want your car spotted on record, don't drive it out.Are you going to hunt down every single member of the public who probably has taken a photo of your car on their camera phones or did you chase after the threadstarter because he was using a visible camera?
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  19. #39
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs
    i agree that we should not be using our camera to invade other ppl's privacy. but in this instance, we are talking about a car on orchard rd. i dont think invasion of privacy applies in this case. besides...what if the car is travelling in the middle of the rd? how to ask for permission?
    Well okay if you want to put it as that..maybe this is not so much an issue of photography alone but am matter of social interaction. Suffice it is to say some might not mind or just get a bit ticked off and drive on and not think of it any further. But you have to allow for the fact that if someone is not comfortable about it and actually stopped to ask why, it is within their rights to do so. The question here now will be how you as the photographer then handle it? Do you choose to make matters worst off or will you be willing to compromise? It might not be an invasion of privacy as per say. Maybe me or anyone else might have over use this term here over this talking point. But you can say it can be term as modesty in the case of the girl? For one reason or anther if she felt that your aiming a camera at her direction is disturbing and warrant an explanation from you it is within her rights. Remember the infamous website " SIngaporegirl.com" or something like that where these guys took picturess of girls in various manner and post them up for all to lewd at. When this come to light, how did you think some women reacted to that? If we want to really get into it...somany variables comes into play in real life instances. The thing is what line of action are we willing to take each time we go out to shoot and borderline situation like this crops up. The question is not the camera you hold and aim at someone but what people worry is the person holding that camera aiming at them. They are not sure of his motive.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Can we take photos on the street?

    To me it is a sad day when the feeling/concern of the subject is subjugated to the "rights" of the photographer.

    There is an interesting observation on the types of words used in photography: "Aim", "Shoot", "Capture".

    So aggressive!

    This is an attitude that is so prevalent in certain societies - and appears to me a catalyst/cause for many unhappy neighbourhood quarrels.

    I am no lawyer nor am I familiar with whatever sections of the laws.

    I like street photography and like to photograph people on the streets. To me, "my rights" is totally immaterial if the subject is uncomfortable with me pointing my camera at him/her.

    In my viewpoint, what is that picture anyway? I am but an amateur photographer amusing myself. Why do I consider my personal amusement more important than the other person's discomfort? Is it really that important?

    In this particular instance - is the "principle" of "rights" so very important?
    Last edited by student; 4th January 2006 at 11:17 AM.

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