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Thread: What on earth?!

  1. #21
    vince123123
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Sounds like a good idea, but first we need to know which restaurant has this rule :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Astin
    Lets go for a dinner and take photos at different hours, different days, and everytime get someone else to call up the security, until the security realize that taking dinner photos is the norm, not the exception.

  2. #22

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    they are just like ken rockwell:

    KUKU

  3. #23
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99
    bugis?
    MacKenzie Road

  4. #24

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Normally ppl ask whether I am reporter Those who have been shooting with me... do I look like one?

  5. #25
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzotint
    hi redstone!

    I think I know where were you shooting at. I went there on 26 Dec Monday afternoon and there were 2 Chinese workers nailing boards for the hoarding of the old shophouses. I went into one of the corner shop houses which is really badly in shape i.e. broken ceiling.

    Then one of the Chinese workers, believed to be the foreman, called out at me and said it's dangerous to go into the house, the ceiling might tumble down. I smiled and apologised. I asked him abt the whole place. He answered that the whole place will be demolished by next year and some "residents" here will move out by end of the year. Then he walked off.
    Was he quite young (like 30s)?

    The foreman I met was Singaporean.

    Yup, the corner house in the alley is structurally very unsafe.

    The corner 2 houses by the main road is structurally EXTREMELY unsafe.
    It is leaning towards the road!!!!!
    Also no roof and floor. Only walls.

    You can hardly see any more houses like this here.

    The State Property sign I've seen, at the patch of grass by the alley right?
    I think it refers only to that patch. It's been up there for quite some time liao.

  6. #26
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    What I really want to know is, is it legal to take pics of govt owned (but not govt occupied) buildings from outside of the property for personal usage?

  7. #27

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Hi redstone,

    Having met you, I admire your interest, enthusiasm and motivation.

    All it takes is for someone named Osama to cause so much discouragement to you, and inconvenience to the world.

  8. #28

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone
    Was he quite young (like 30s)?

    The foreman I met was Singaporean.

    Yup, the corner house in the alley is structurally very unsafe.

    The corner 2 houses by the main road is structurally EXTREMELY unsafe.
    It is leaning towards the road!!!!!
    Also no roof and floor. Only walls.

    You can hardly see any more houses like this here.

    The State Property sign I've seen, at the patch of grass by the alley right?
    I think it refers only to that patch. It's been up there for quite some time liao.
    The foreman I met was from China based on his Chinese accent. In his late 30s I guess. He frowned and perplexed by my presence but not that rude nor hostile.

    Yes I saw the other old corner shop house with empty roof, the one facing MacKenzie Road. There's a paint-sprayed signboard from the previous shop owner who wanted to inform his customers or friends that he has had moved to another location. At that time there was a broken black metal folding chair leaning on the wall next to the signboard. I found it pretty interesting as the broken chair symbolizes "waiting" or "living" in contrast with the signboard message. So I took a shot.

    Regarding the State Property signboard, I think I feel safe to go back there for some night shootings. But in stealth. Hahaha...

  9. #29

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jemapela
    Hi redstone,

    Having met you, I admire your interest, enthusiasm and motivation.

    All it takes is for someone named Osama to cause so much discouragement to you, and inconvenience to the world.
    I totally agree, man!

    Since 9/11 incident, taking street pictures is becoming more sensitive and questionable by the authority, not to mention doing night photography.

    Well the only solution to this kinda barrier is to apply for the appropriate permit to take pictures on certain buildings or areas from the authority. That way, you save yrself the trouble from questioning by police patrol or security guards. Well personally I think taking pictures freely on the street is not illegal, which of cuz we must know where we are at the time of shooting. We can always avoid certain places that are forbidden. Just need to know our rights well.

  10. #30

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    It's legal to take picture of anything when you are in a public place.

    However, in US there are privacy laws, which basically state that there are certain places where a person is entitled to privacy (eg in their homes) and so taking pictures of people in their homes, even if you are on a public street, intrudes upon their privacy and thus gives them grounds to sue you.

    Don't know about the situation here-- you may want to ask a lawyer or check out the AGC website.

    Taking pictures of buildings is not a legal problem per se. However, it is a security problem for some people, who may run over to you and check you out the moment you raise a camera. In some cases, these people wear badges and carry guns, and can make life very difficult for you (eg by interrogating you, asking you to report to a police station, etc).

    What's worse are those who don't wear badges or carry guns, but are dressed in white and wear sunglasses with earpieces stuck in their ears. Those guys are hard to mess with, and there isn't much of a civil rights movement here.

    Just remember we also have the infamous ISA, which allows the govt to detain anyone without trial, simply on suspicion that the person is endangering the security of Singapore. If taking pictures of certain buildings gives rise to such suspicions, and you have to go through so much risk just to take pictures, you have to ask if the picture is worth it.

    Remember-- this is not America, there are no civil rights organisations or free press here to fight for anyone's wrongful arrest.

    Translation: nobody is going to organise public protests for you even if you are wrongly arrested or detained or tortured.

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by redstone
    What I really want to know is, is it legal to take pics of govt owned (but not govt occupied) buildings from outside of the property for personal usage?

  11. #31

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    It's legal to take picture of anything when you are in a public place.

    However, in US there are privacy laws, which basically state that there are certain places where a person is entitled to privacy (eg in their homes) and so taking pictures of people in their homes, even if you are on a public street, intrudes upon their privacy and thus gives them grounds to sue you.

    Don't know about the situation here-- you may want to ask a lawyer or check out the AGC website.

    Taking pictures of buildings is not a legal problem per se. However, it is a security problem for some people, who may run over to you and check you out the moment you raise a camera. In some cases, these people wear badges and carry guns, and can make life very difficult for you (eg by interrogating you, asking you to report to a police station, etc).

    What's worse are those who don't wear badges or carry guns, but are dressed in white and wear sunglasses with earpieces stuck in their ears. Those guys are hard to mess with, and there isn't much of a civil rights movement here.

    Just remember we also have the infamous ISA, which allows the govt to detain anyone without trial, simply on suspicion that the person is endangering the security of Singapore. If taking pictures of certain buildings gives rise to such suspicions, and you have to go through so much risk just to take pictures, you have to ask if the picture is worth it.

    Remember-- this is not America, there are no civil rights organisations or free press here to fight for anyone's wrongful arrest.

    Translation: nobody is going to organise public protests for you even if you are wrongly arrested or detained or tortured.

    Wai Leong
    ===
    I agree. You're so right.

    With regards to privacy laws, US and Australia have Privacy Acts. I'm sure UK would have theirs too. As best as I know, Singapore doesn't have a Privacy Act at all, and it's a shortcoming.

    In Australia, the Privacy Act appears to cover circumstances of video surveillance in lifts, trains, stores, etc., giving building authorities, transport companies, store management, etc. the right to video-record all patrons, customers, passers-by without being sued for intrusion of privacy.

    If there's an intrusion of privacy in S'pore, such as in the case of a peeping-tom photographing from his flat window into your flat opposite his, there isn't a Privacy Act which you can use to protect yourself and sue the culprit with. Instead, some other law from another Act is used. (If I'm not wrong.)

  12. #32

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone
    What I really want to know is, is it legal to take pics of govt owned (but not govt occupied) buildings from outside of the property for personal usage?
    generally, yes unless you're stop by a police officer. nowadays, certain buildings and places of dwelling are deemed "sensitive" hence taking pictures there could get you an interview with ISD. so you've to thread along carefully. most importantly, don't go about taking pictures covetly. be open about it. give the officers (if any) an opportunity to stop you, not arrest you.

  13. #33

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    It's legal to take picture of anything when you are in a public place.
    Oh be careful of this statement. While in most cases it is "legal", if you take "suggestive" photographs of the fairer sex and get reported doing it, the police can actually charge you for misconduct.

  14. #34
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    MacKenzie Road is just a few metres away from the most guarded house in Singapore, the Istana!

    Even the windows of flats nearby are turned away or partially blocked. Like those in Little India.
    Also, there's a height limit over the whole area.

    ....BUT
    The old shophouses at MacKenzie are not sensitive property or some big secret.
    No terrorist in his right mind would bomb those old empty houses.

  15. #35

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Misconduct of what? Be careful of what you say. Get the law straight before you mislead people.

    Possession of porno materials is illegal, we know that, but that is not the same as taking pix.

    Of course, upskirt photos will get you into trouble-- that is outrage of modesty.

    Quote Originally Posted by michhy
    Oh be careful of this statement. While in most cases it is "legal", if you take "suggestive" photographs of the fairer sex and get reported doing it, the police can actually charge you for misconduct.

  16. #36

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    The point is there is no "generally" involved, if there is a law against photography, the police must be able to recite it chapter and verse, and charge you for breaking it. They cannot just suka suka say you can do this or you cannot do this.

    That is the basis of a democratic society and the rule of law-- governed by written laws which are passed by the people through their elected representatives in Parliament, not arbitrary laws made up by dictators or their underlings as and when they like.

    The principle of a society governed by the rule of law is that anything is legal unless there is a law against it. So if there no law against taking a picture of a govt building from a public road, the police cannot stop you. Theoretically.

    However, post-911 situation is such that even in the US, security forces will stop people from taking pictures, even when they don't have the right to do so (eg people have been stopped from taking pictures of bridges, even from public roads). In S'pore, you know what the situation is, I described it in my earlier post.

    It's up to you whether you want to stand up for your legal rights. In the US, there is the ACLU to help you, if you are wrongly arrested. There are lobby groups, there is the media, people will write songs about you, hold candelight vigils, write to their congressman, there are human rights lawyers willing to represent you for free, to take on the govt because they believe in your cause. And if you win, you might even sue for wrongful arrest, violation of your constitutional rights, maybe even get on the Tonight show, score a book deal.

    There is nothing like that here. So you decide whether it's worth your while to fight for your rights, whether that govt building is worth it.

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by nova_nebula
    generally, yes unless you're stop by a police officer. nowadays, certain buildings and places of dwelling are deemed "sensitive" hence taking pictures there could get you an interview with ISD. so you've to thread along carefully. most importantly, don't go about taking pictures covetly. be open about it. give the officers (if any) an opportunity to stop you, not arrest you.
    Last edited by waileong; 30th December 2005 at 11:36 PM.

  17. #37
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by michhy
    Oh be careful of this statement. While in most cases it is "legal", if you take "suggestive" photographs of the fairer sex and get reported doing it, the police can actually charge you for misconduct.
    as long as you don't use the images illegally, you can't be charged for misconduct. if not, i don't think there'll be many street shooters around
    eat. drink. shoot

  18. #38
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Klose
    Normally ppl ask whether I am reporter Those who have been shooting with me... do I look like one?
    Hmmmm... Don't think so. Must be your big lens...

    But you're not the only one who gets that question. Strangely, everyone seems to think that anyone with a DSLR is a reporter. Wonder where that came from...

  19. #39
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremyftk
    Hmmmm... Don't think so. Must be your big lens...

    But you're not the only one who gets that question. Strangely, everyone seems to think that anyone with a DSLR is a reporter. Wonder where that came from...
    I'm using prosumer....

    I'll say I'm doing "photography" instead of "taking pictures"

  20. #40

    Default Re: What on earth?!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Which restaurant was that? lets go try try hehhehehe
    I've no idea. I'm assuming its Suntec City itself.

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