sigma sd9

[chaotic]

I am just curious.. are there any buyers out there interested in the new SD9 by sigma? i wonder if there are any in singapore already.

The SD9 isn't available for purchase yet, though it certainly made quite a splash at Photokina 2002. We'll have to wait and see.

[Klause]

the multiplier of 1.7x is pretty huge.. little/no chance to take super wide angle shots already

[roygoh]

Quote: Originally posted by Klause the multiplier of 1.7x is pretty huge.. little/no chance to take super wide angle shots already

You would have to use Sigma lenses with this camera anyway. I guess Sigma should be coming up with super-duper wide angles to go with this camera. 14~50mm zoom for the full-frame equivalence of 24~85mm, maybe?

[Klause]

Quote: Originally posted by roygoh You would have to use Sigma lenses with this camera anyway. I guess Sigma should be coming up with super-duper wide angles to go with this camera. 14~50mm zoom for the full-frame equivalence of 24~85mm, maybe?

I hope so. If they don't, I think need to use 14mm prime. heh.

[chaotic]

Here is the URL to some samples on dpreview.com. Looks not too bad to me and it's probably the cheapest DSLR besides the Exx from Olympus.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read....essage=3722296

Quote: Originally posted by chaotic Here is the URL to some samples on dpreview.com. Looks not too bad to me

I think that's an understatement. I personally think the quality of the output from the new Foveon sensor is simply scintillating; it definitely far exceeds anything we've ever seen from a Bayer-pattern sensor of equivalent resolution. So perhaps all the previous hype was indeed justified. More pixels would certainly be appreciated, though, especially in light of the massive megapixel numbers being posted by the newest series of D-SLRs. While I am not so sure whether it would be worth getting the SD9, I daresay that future cameras with Foveon sensors will definitely be worth a long, hard look.

[denizenx]

try steve's digicams LOL.. his shots are quite consistent, so can guage the image vs other cams...

[Jed]

Quote: Originally posted by Midnight More pixels would certainly be appreciated, though, especially in light of the massive megapixel numbers being posted by the newest series of D-SLRs. While I am not so sure whether it would be worth getting the SD9

My own $0.02 is that the Sigma SD9 is here and now. And it's cheap. Yes the SD9 doesn't have the world's greatest number of pixels, but it has better pixels than any other 35mm based digital SLR camera out there at the moment. It comes down to, how big do you need to go? Do you really need all that resolution? Conventional wisdom has it that the X3's 3.3mp gets you to about 6 million bayer pixels. Yes there are going to be better cameras somewhere down the line. Do you need those better cameras?

Put it this way, I would certainly buy one at the price, if only I could use my lenses on it, and for me, that's a major sticking point.

[Larry]

Quote: Originally posted by roygoh You would have to use Sigma lenses with this camera anyway. I guess Sigma should be coming up with super-duper wide angles to go with this camera. 14~50mm zoom for the full-frame equivalence of 24~85mm, maybe?

doesn't sigma already produce a 15-30mm ultra-wide?

Quote: Originally posted by Jed Put it this way, I would certainly buy one at the price, if only I could use my lenses on it, and for me, that's a major sticking point.

agree with you there Jed... the lens mount i think is the major obstacle for the SD9... i would seriously consider the SD9 IF i could use my existing lenses on it, but switch completely to Sigma lenses? i think not...

wonder if Sigma is listening to market feedback... so many reviewers and users have been telling them, make a Nikon/Canon mount... hope that's in the works soon. a Foveon-equipped Nikon/Canon DSLR would certainly be a major contender...

Quote: Originally posted by Jed It comes down to, how big do you need to go? Do you really need all that resolution? Conventional wisdom has it that the X3's 3.3mp gets you to about 6 million bayer pixels. Yes there are going to be better cameras somewhere down the line. Do you need those better cameras?

Excellent point, Jed, and one that certainly deserves to be brought to the attention of the legion of "equipment collectors" out there. I fully agree with your perspective; my own take on this whole issue has always been that photography equipment is but the means to the end, and thus the extent of the means you require will obviously depend on the end you are trying to achieve.

Having said that, however, I also perceive the whole digital photography industry to be in a state of great flux right now, with new "standards" and better mousetraps appearing over the horizon in an apparently ceaseless stream. Yet cease it eventually must; personally, I would like to wait for the dust to settle down and for general standards (vis-a-vis sensor sizes, sensor resolutions, perhaps even lens mounts at long last) to emerge before picking up anything else new. As already mentioned, of course, one's mileage will vary. Photographers who need additional "power" right now have lots of options at their fingertips; for the rest of us right now, however, it may be more prudent to simply wait and see.

[chaotic]

just out of curiosity, anyone using the sa9 or sa7 at the moment? it's a good chance to go sd9! :-)

[Jed]

In the mess that was just now, I forgot to add. It's a 3.3mp chip which yields results similar to 6 million bayer pixels. But at the file sizes of a 3.3mp image, at least initially before you interpolate up.

Do not underestimate this, as a digital user who must have shot over 100k images now and is dealing with them on a daily basis. Smaller file sizes means smaller flash cards, faster write times, more images in HDD, more images in CD, more images in DVD, faster read times from those devices (which when you have 1000 to trawl through in thumbnails, every little bit helps). Etc.

I said about a year ago when I got my current crop of cameras, before the X3 was announced, that 6 million real pixels would keep me very happy. This was before the current crop of two-digit-megapixel cameras. I haven't changed my tune, because I still don't want to be juggling bigger than 6mp files.

Midnight makes an excellent point that the digital market is in a state of evolution at the moment. Wait and see is certainly a very good attitude to adopt. However it does swing back also to what I said in my first post - if the SD9, or D60, or D1 as in that new thread, is good enough for you now, then it will be good enough for you even when the 42mp EOS 1Dstuv is released. Unless you become a far more serious photographer, but in which case, that's not the technology's fault, and you'd be upgrading even if you were using film.

What I'm saying is, if you don't make larger than 8x10s now, don't wait for a newer camera because you feel you might want to do 16x20s in the future. That's akin to buying an EOS1v because you might want to shoot sport in the future but don't do so at present. But then again, some people do that...

[nicholas1986]

jed said that the sd9 is better than some dslr in quality. but what is the quality? does it means that it may have better contast than the d60 or d100? i still don't get to see why is the sd9 is so good beside it sensor that i dunno what is it for.

[Bluestrike]

Quote: Originally posted by nicholas1986 jed said that the sd9 is better than some dslr in quality. but what is the quality? does it means that it may have better contast than the d60 or d100? i still don't get to see why is the sd9 is so good beside it sensor that i dunno what is it for.

Have you seen the sample images as compared to the other DSLR?

Maybe that why you have not seen why the SD9 is so good abt.

[Goondu]

Quote: Originally posted by nicholas1986 jed said that the sd9 is better than some dslr in quality. but what is the quality? does it means that it may have better contast than the d60 or d100? i still don't get to see why is the sd9 is so good beside it sensor that i dunno what is it for.

I think Jed is referring to the pixel quality compared with the current crop of DSLR.

I have read somewhere before in dpreview regarding the differences between the Foveon chip and the CMOS and CCD sensors.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Foveon sensors is able to pick up 3 primary colours per pixel instead of the current crop of CCD and CMOS sensors.

Try to do a search regarding the Foveon technology.

[Jed]

I think he knew what I meant, he was just wondering how is the pixel quality better.

Basically, as Goondu has said, the X3 sensor is able to pick up red, green and blue values on each photosite, which results in a proper pixel. In essence what happens with conventional CCDs and CMOS sensors that only see in one colour per photosite, is that groups of photosites are grouped together to pick up, individually, red, green and blue values, and thereafter interpolated together to product an RGB value.

What this means is, a "conventional" 6 million pixel camera actually only sees about 2 million red pixels. (Ignoring Bayer-bias to simplify calculations) And only 2 million green pixels, and only 2 million blue pixels. So for example if you took a picture of a red piece of cloth, your conventional digital camera would serious struggle to pull the full detail out of it.

Again, this has been one of the reasons why scanning or three shot backs produce far better output quality than single shot backs. Obviously there are other reasons such as multiple sampling to increase dynamic range and reduce dark current noise.

[roti]

thinking if sigma will come out with a digital body with diff mounts just like their lens........

[SianZronG]

so around how much will this system be retailed at? any guesses?

Quote: Originally posted by SianZronG so around how much will this system be retailed at? any guesses?

According to press releases before Photokina 2002, the expected retail price for the SD9 body will be US$1800, which is much cheaper than what most people expected for such "cutting-edge" technology. Definitely a good buy worth considering if you're entering the market for a D-SLR.