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Thread: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

  1. #21

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    FYI, did a little digging.

    TS is no newbie, probably he shoots longer than most people here.

    .
    Dear Moderator,

    If you allowed me to say, you need not bring home the point to mention the above. Just felt by mentioning these become somewhat less impartial as a moderator.

  2. #22

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    FYI, did a little digging.

    TS is no newbie, probably he shoots longer than most people here.

    I know many of photographers like him, shooting the same things same style for many years.

    Nothing wrong with that, but just sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by divinemoment View Post
    Dear Moderator,

    If you allowed me to say, you need not bring home the point to mention the above. Just felt by mentioning these become somewhat less impartial as a moderator.
    imho, if you want to quote someone, need to quote the message in its entirety, otherwise the meaning is not fully received by in your selected parts. I find the message fair and in line with the sub forum's mission of promoting healthy growth for the photography occupation.

    Do deeds that is frowned upon, get discussed and criticized by peers, simply just cause and effects. Feel free to praise him too if feel that he is doing good to the industry, no problems, people have opinions.
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  3. #23
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by divinemoment View Post

    Dear Moderator,

    If you allowed me to say, you need not bring home the point to mention the above. Just felt by mentioning these become somewhat less impartial as a moderator.
    Please note that moderators are people too, and also part of the photography community. Moderators do not hav the obligation to be impartial. Moderators can have opinions as well. Thank you.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    I learned not long ago in this world if you will clean toilets for 9 bucks an hour then that is what you will be paid. And you'll never be without enough work. LOL
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  5. #25
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    FYI, did a little digging.

    TS is no newbie, probably he shoots longer than most people here.

    I know many of photographers like him, shooting the same things same style for many years.

    Nothing wrong with that, but just sad.
    Thanks for your compliment, but I think you should do more digging.
    Nevertheless, "If" I am shooting the same things same style for many years, that must be a miracle to survive for so many years.
    I am just a cheap photographer; don't know how to make big buck from my client. Neither do I charge extra because I categorise myself as "Professional" nor short change my customers. I just work within their budget and needs.
    I work with many photographers and suppliers; I never owe anyone a single cent or delay any payment. Please contact me if you think that I owe you money.
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  6. #26

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Please note that moderators are people too, and also part of the photography community. Moderators do not hav the obligation to be impartial. Moderators can have opinions as well. Thank you.
    I see very often moderator suddenly close a thread, sometimes at a point of interesting discussion. Ok, discussion could be running out of direction of its intended purpose. Obviously I understd the role of moderator is to ensure all comments are civic and serve the purpose, but at times I see that the enforcement of closing the thread is quite unnecessary.So if moderator has opinion which you mentioned he is entitled to (and for the stated comments I just felt it served no purpose), isn't it he shld equally give some leeway for readers when his out of pt when replying instead of closing it abruptly?
    Last edited by divinemoment; 31st August 2016 at 11:46 AM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member sykestang's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by tanslr View Post
    Moderation note: This thread was created from the posts moved out from http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1630098

    Please continue the discussion here

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    $200 for 800 edited images?? What do you think the photog is? Cheap robotic slave?? Come on... Be reasonable..!even if it's a children graduation ceremony, it is still effort on the photographer to take the pictures.. U want 800 edited images??? Why don't you try and take that many and edit it yourself.. And do the mathematics on effort versus cost versus reasonableness (is there such a word?)

    I am curious, why do you need 800 images???


    Gosh...
    Why 800 images... it is simple. The images for Children concert is to sell back to the parents. The more photos means can sell more.

    I used to contract to shoot for 'certain child care' (not to be named) for free for a few years. And also provide studio graduation photography for the graduating students as well. The school will have a cut in selling the nice studio mugshot photo where I even custom print designed a photo folio to hold the mugshot + classphoto.

    And I'll cover the event photography for the graduation concert FOC and my fees will be based on the no. of photos ordered and sold to the parents, just place a few albums at the school after the event with a few order forms. Also up a website for photo selection. Guess what, every concert I get an average net profit of over a thousand dollars on photo orders itself, back then I only charge parents $0.70/photo. Have been doing this for 5years until later the school change management and the new management wanted a cut in the graduation concert orders which I no longer find it worth to do anymore.

    So that's explain the 800 photos. More photos means more selections = to more orders. Typically each photo can sells for $1.00 - $1.20 (current market price). So you can imagine how much the TS can ripped from the photographers by giving them a wage of $30/hr. This is total exploitation!!! The TS just sits there and collect money!!!

    Please, fellow photographers, do not fall for this scam!
    Visit me at my studio: http://www.studiospace.com.sg

  8. #28
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    If 30 bucks an hour is exploitation then it must be that it is getting hard to live/survive in Singapore.

    You bros seem really disappointed that TS figured out a lucrative scheme before you did. A little envy maybe? I'm just saying...

    If I were a mod I think I would let this thread continue to run as it is somewhat amusing. The only thing I have a problem with is the name calling earlier but then again I suspect a warning shot across the bow of that poster was conducted privately as it should be.

    At any rate like I said before do it for 3000 per image and that is what you'll get...if you don't starve first. Hehe

    Since the beginning of time...


    PS. CS moderators some of the best I have ever seen and I have been on boards since 1999.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Everyone knows about beating dead horses right?

    How about solutions instead of bitterness? Yes it would be nice for everyone to get paid hundred or hundreds per hour to shoot but this is not realistic. Think about it.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 31st August 2016 at 12:09 PM.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    How about solutions instead of bitterness?
    You have one? I like to hear it.

  11. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by divinemoment View Post
    You have one? I like to hear it.
    Market forces. Let them play out on their own. I think it really is a case of differentiating your product well enough.

    If your product is good enough, you will get the business.

    If you lose business, it's because someone else is cheaper and/or better than you.

    Same thing for a direct customer engaging a photographer or a main photographer who is looking to subcontract others.

  12. #32

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by sykestang View Post
    Why 800 images... it is simple. The images for Children concert is to sell back to the parents. The more photos means can sell more.

    I used to contract to shoot for 'certain child care' (not to be named) for free for a few years. And also provide studio graduation photography for the graduating students as well. The school will have a cut in selling the nice studio mugshot photo where I even custom print designed a photo folio to hold the mugshot + classphoto.

    And I'll cover the event photography for the graduation concert FOC and my fees will be based on the no. of photos ordered and sold to the parents, just place a few albums at the school after the event with a few order forms. Also up a website for photo selection. Guess what, every concert I get an average net profit of over a thousand dollars on photo orders itself, back then I only charge parents $0.70/photo. Have been doing this for 5years until later the school change management and the new management wanted a cut in the graduation concert orders which I no longer find it worth to do anymore.

    So that's explain the 800 photos. More photos means more selections = to more orders. Typically each photo can sells for $1.00 - $1.20 (current market price). So you can imagine how much the TS can ripped from the photographers by giving them a wage of $30/hr. This is total exploitation!!! The TS just sits there and collect money!!!

    Please, fellow photographers, do not fall for this scam!
    thank you sir for the very informative sharing.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanSelvaraju View Post
    Market forces. Let them play out on their own. I think it really is a case of differentiating your product well enough.

    If your product is good enough, you will get the business.

    If you lose business, it's because someone else is cheaper and/or better than you.

    Same thing for a direct customer engaging a photographer or a main photographer who is looking to subcontract others.
    Ok, market forces, blah bla. I hv heard all these before. Nothing new.

  14. #34

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    Everyone knows about beating dead horses right?

    How about solutions instead of bitterness? Yes it would be nice for everyone to get paid hundred or hundreds per hour to shoot but this is not realistic. Think about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by divinemoment View Post
    You have one? I like to hear it.
    Quote Originally Posted by divinemoment View Post
    Ok, market forces, blah bla. I hv heard all these before. Nothing new.
    In the same fking thread you will see people sharing their methods and teaching people how to do it (SkyvesTang, much appreciated sir), and you will see people accusing others of being bitter. Have it ever occur to you that the people you like to accuse of being 'bittter' might be successful photographers doing well for themselves but just irked by people exploiting photographers and have something to say.

    And of course, the usual people who accept market forces, demand supply, etc, etc. Why do people accept low pay hard work and making others rich? I don't know. Maybe that's why in this world there are employees, employers, and the self employed. Their feelings and words used their language give a hint of who they are and will be.
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by sykestang View Post
    Why 800 images... it is simple. The images for Children concert is to sell back to the parents. The more photos means can sell more.

    I used to contract to shoot for 'certain child care' (not to be named) for free for a few years. And also provide studio graduation photography for the graduating students as well. The school will have a cut in selling the nice studio mugshot photo where I even custom print designed a photo folio to hold the mugshot + classphoto.

    And I'll cover the event photography for the graduation concert FOC and my fees will be based on the no. of photos ordered and sold to the parents, just place a few albums at the school after the event with a few order forms. Also up a website for photo selection. Guess what, every concert I get an average net profit of over a thousand dollars on photo orders itself, back then I only charge parents $0.70/photo. Have been doing this for 5years until later the school change management and the new management wanted a cut in the graduation concert orders which I no longer find it worth to do anymore.

    So that's explain the 800 photos. More photos means more selections = to more orders. Typically each photo can sells for $1.00 - $1.20 (current market price). So you can imagine how much the TS can ripped from the photographers by giving them a wage of $30/hr. This is total exploitation!!! The TS just sits there and collect money!!!

    Please, fellow photographers, do not fall for this scam!
    Sad, someone need to pickup the **** that you left behind. You do it for "FREE" and find no longer worth to do anymore. and I pay photographer to do it and you make so much noise? Since you have the experience to do it, I can give you the contacts for you to sit there and have thousands dollars of net profit. Now you can collect money. Please remember, You do it for "FREE".
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by sykestang View Post
    Why 800 images... it is simple. The images for Children concert is to sell back to the parents. The more photos means can sell more.

    I used to contract to shoot for 'certain child care' (not to be named) for free for a few years. And also provide studio graduation photography for the graduating students as well. The school will have a cut in selling the nice studio mugshot photo where I even custom print designed a photo folio to hold the mugshot + classphoto.

    And I'll cover the event photography for the graduation concert FOC and my fees will be based on the no. of photos ordered and sold to the parents, just place a few albums at the school after the event with a few order forms. Also up a website for photo selection. Guess what, every concert I get an average net profit of over a thousand dollars on photo orders itself, back then I only charge parents $0.70/photo. Have been doing this for 5years until later the school change management and the new management wanted a cut in the graduation concert orders which I no longer find it worth to do anymore.

    So that's explain the 800 photos. More photos means more selections = to more orders. Typically each photo can sells for $1.00 - $1.20 (current market price). So you can imagine how much the TS can ripped from the photographers by giving them a wage of $30/hr. This is total exploitation!!! The TS just sits there and collect money!!!

    Please, fellow photographers, do not fall for this scam!
    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    thank you sir for the very informative sharing.

    There is no secret in this business. Below is a Standard Concert of a Childcare Centre with about 60+ Children.

    Cost Collection
    Photographer X 1 $200.00
    First Print 300 X $0.30 $90.00
    Orders 500 X $0.30 $150.00 $600.00
    Display Staff 2 X 3 Hrs X $10.00 $60.00
    School Commission 20% X 500 X $1.20 $120.00
    Others (Envelopes, Orders Form, etc) $10.00
    Sub Total $630.00
    Reuse from first print (Estimated) 200 -$60.00
    P&L $570.00 $600.00
    Time spent on Sorting, Delivery Free

    If I am the photographer, I get the $200.00 service fees. Anyone interested?
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  17. #37
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by divinemoment View Post
    I see very often moderator suddenly close a thread, sometimes at a point of interesting discussion. Ok, discussion could be running out of direction of its intended purpose. Obviously I understd the role of moderator is to ensure all comments are civic and serve the purpose, but at times I see that the enforcement of closing the thread is quite unnecessary.So if moderator has opinion which you mentioned he is entitled to (and for the stated comments I just felt it served no purpose), isn't it he shld equally give some leeway for readers when his out of pt when replying instead of closing it abruptly?
    I would encourage you to read the rules and regulations of this forum. As long as the they are not violated, threads will not be closed. What the moderators do on a volunteer basis, is to ensure that rules and regulations are adhered to. You can read it here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63921

    Also, moderators do not just read and delete threads as they like it. Believe it or not, discussions within the mod/admin teams do happen before threads gets deleted and users banned.

    BTW, this issue you mentioned has no correlation whatsoever to what opinions any moderators have.

    If you feel that any part of the rules and regulations are unfair, please take it up with the Admins.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 1st September 2016 at 06:48 AM.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by divinemoment View Post
    You have one? I like to hear it.
    How about do what one does and don't worry about what others do? Be a working photographer or be an advocate against exploitive labor practices.

    You can go back to magazines from 70s 80s 90s and find this exact same discussion...you can go on the way back machine and see this same discussion on a photo board in 2000...my point is as long as someone is hungry many times they will work for peanuts always has been always will be. So why not relax and not fight even though it can be construed as possibly damaging the industry to some degree (maybe maybe not).

    I can give you a decent analogy I think. I am an auto trimmer fairly high skilled. Work at a long established shop get payed on the higher end of the national average prevailing wage for the trade/craft. In many ways it is like photography...a craft an art a skill design execution etc. Am I worried about all the foreigners and newbie locals moving in on my territory? Would it do me any good to b!tch moan and complain about them? No I don't pay them no mind whatsoever. I pay attention to me. I am one of the best at what I do. I do not lack for work in fact probably have to much work.

    My opinion and yes bros I realize many have a different opinion and that is okay too. If one wants to be Don Quixote tilting at windmills hoping or expecting a different result than the last time have at it...none of my business anyway.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 1st September 2016 at 11:22 AM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  19. #39

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Hi ,ladies and gentlemen .

    Who move my cheese?

    Move and change with the times is the only way to survive .

    Market forces decides who survives !

    I'm not in this industry . But it's all the same .

    Open your hearts and minds to except changes.

    Or fail like a stubborn old master who lost this customers to a ever changing disciples !

  20. #40

    Default Re: [Discussion] Freelance Event's Photographer (Children Graduation Concert)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    FYI, did a little digging.

    TS is no newbie, probably he shoots longer than most people here.

    I know many of photographers like him, shooting the same things same style for many years.

    Nothing wrong with that, but just sad.
    Is it this one?

    https://www.yelp.com.sg/biz/photo-mark-singapore

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