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Thread: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

  1. #81

    Default Re: 5 bucks a day

    Quote Originally Posted by soma
    You never served NS? WHy?

    Sweat yes but can forget about the blood la, the tears of wasting 2 freak year yes.
    u go ard assuming ppl never served NS ah...why?
    Last edited by zaren; 22nd November 2005 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #82
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    Thumbs down Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    After I read the article on the newspaper, I am damn pissed off!
    Just becoz he is talented, he can escape serving the NS with $5000?
    Next time when ppl AWOL like him, they can show the judge the newspaper article and he just have to pass the fine and fark off, rite? Like that everyone also no need to serve in army liao, rite?

  3. #83
    Senior Member roadrunner_552's Avatar
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    tulan siaa. SAF double standard 1 lar. Rich can tok, poor better keep quiet.

    that is the life in singapore under ***. sad

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by skinnylatte
    And I'm sorry to have riled you on the point about the hypothetical son (since erm, for me to have a son in the first place, it would mean I would have to be away from Singapore and I'm not allowed to get married here, if you know what I mean). Let's just say this system isn't conducive to people who can't help but still believe in individual liberty.
    I don't mean to be rude, but i'm glad if you have to have a son, you have to be away from Singapore and that you're not allowed to get married here.

    I just hope the rest of the mothers here do not have the same thinking as you as in helping their sons to skip NS to realise their dreams.

    Thoughts like this are dangerous for our country.

    For those who had read our MM's memoirs would recall how he wrote many letters to many countries to request for help to build our army but only one country responded. How our soldiers were "kicked out" of their barracks while foreign army simply su ka su ka took over their bunks. That is an insult to our nation.

    Today, this will not happen becos we have built our own army due to the NS system.

    How would you feel if some bugger simply su ka su ka come into your house and refuse to leave? Will you like it?

    This man skipped NS to pursue his own dreams abroad. That is very selfish of him and yet has the cheek to come back. And yes, $5000 is nothing and is an insult to those who had lost their lives when serving their NS.

    I've had guys who went to DB becos they AWOL.They come from poor families and need to work to support their family. They struggled their way thru NS, in and out of DB just to keep their families alive. Is this fair to them? Is the act of pursuing one's dream more noble than a man who endure and suffer for his family?

    I cannot deny i'm very pissed off by the sentence. But when i think of my friend who died, one who lost his arm and the other who became a vegetable while serving the nation and this bugger comes back and kenna fined $5000, i got very very very upset and pissed off !

    Think i need a smoke now......

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Sigh....

    that's spore for you

    Though spore's still myhome, it's times like this that make me glad i'm working here in ang moh land.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Actually I think the practice of shooting deserters during wartime is rather extreme. Anyway if I were to desert and I know I'm going to get shot, I'll shoot them the officer first hehe The men have no authority to shoot me anyway.



  7. #87

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    I think the sentence is too light and needs to be updated

    BUT

    you guys missed out the end of the news article which quoted a lawyer saying that in his experience, no one has ever gotten a jail term for the same offense.

    Don't be so quick to jump to conspiracy theories lah.

  8. #88

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    oh please, have you not seen anyone ever do into a Correction or Detention Barracks just bacause he/she AWOL? i have seen 6 cases over my 2 year saint

    That sentence is just so fake! that lawyer must have been serving his/her duties in mumuland!

  9. #89

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belle&Sebastain
    oh please, have you not seen anyone ever do into a Correction or Detention Barracks just bacause he/she AWOL? i have seen 6 cases over my 2 year saint

    That sentence is just so fake! that lawyer must have been serving his/her duties in mumuland!
    AWOL cases are a regular sight in the office I worked in during NS.

    However you're referring to the military court, which is totally different. The military court only comes in if the offender is in the army. Chicken and egg issue, get it?

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by melnjes
    AWOL cases are a regular sight in the office I worked in during NS.

    However you're referring to the military court, which is totally different. The military court only comes in if the offender is in the army. Chicken and egg issue, get it?
    So... am I right to say that;
    if U wan to avoid NS, avoid it entirely. Dun even report to MPB for the call-up. This only carriers a max fine of $5k.
    If u served half way through, AWOL, U go into DB.

    I'm going to keep a copy of the Sunday's ST papers. Who knows, I may need it for my 'future' son huh? He may becomes a reowned photographer. $5k can't even get a 5D or D2X.
    Get a P&S/Webcam for him & save the rest of the mola to pay that $5k fine.
    Last edited by evq; 23rd November 2005 at 09:30 AM.

  11. #91

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by evq
    So... am I right saying that;
    if U wan to avoid NS, avoid it entirely. Dun even report to MPB for the call-up. This only carriers a max fine of $5k.
    If u served half way through, AWOL, U go into DB.

    I'm going to keep a copy of the Sunday's ST papers. Who knows, I may need it for my 'future' son huh? He may becomes a reowned photographer. $5k can't even get a 5D or D2X.
    Get a P&S/Webcam for him & the rest use to pay that $5k fine.
    If my understanding is correct, yes. But don't hold me to it, I'm no expert.

    If I had my way, we would have public shaming for such folks, jail term and fine equivalent to 2 years' worth of last drawn pay.

  12. #92
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    I think he is not a man. A man will not shrink away from his responsibility. Anyway, i see his face, he looks 'soft'

    I was bitten by a 30cm long centipede, burned by empty cartriages (Got scar) and almost got a 5.56mm M16 round rip right thru my body and still i enjoyed my time there. I din tell my mom about it till i ORD.

    Yes, i believe his punishment is too leinent but i think they took into the account that his parents are old and need him.

    And skinnylatte, if you're borned in a 3rd world country, i am sure you will be singing a different tune.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    What really pissed me off is not that $5k, it that National Art Council invited him back.
    Probably they already worked everything out for him before inviting him. Who know's he dun even have to use his own $5k. It may be tax-payer's mola.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by melnjes
    AWOL cases are a regular sight in the office I worked in during NS.

    However you're referring to the military court, which is totally different. The military court only comes in if the offender is in the army. Chicken and egg issue, get it?
    Excerpt from SAF Act;

    "3. The following persons shall be persons subject to military law and this Act shall, subject to such exclusions or variations in relation to non-uniformed servicemen as may be prescribed, apply to them:

    (a) regular servicemen and full-time national servicemen in the Singapore Armed Forces from the time their liability to report for enlistment or service arises until such time as they are lawfully discharged or released;" (underline added for emphasis)

    this means that he should be subject to military law because his liability for enlistment or service arose and he was never lawfully discharged or released as long as he was in the UK.

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    wa lau, now got 2 thread on this topic.. i think uncle zaren need to close the other thread.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by skinnylatte
    I never said it was right for the pianist to have been 'let off', especially when I know one of my closest friends might be sent straight to another Changi should he set foot at Changi airport, and I don't agree with having allowed this pianist to have 'gotten off so lightly'. But I don't believe that this was because he was 'rich' or accomplished or whatever; in the same way, for example, if the law says someone who steals is likely to be sentenced to a fine of $10 000 or 2 years' jail or both, in the sentencing of people who have stolen, some are likely to have been fined up to $10 000, others simply jailed, others slapped with both. But it is still all within the law and up to the discretion of the judge of the specific case. One person 'getting away' with a $6000 fine, while somebody else had to do time, is not a comparison in this case; and so it shouldn't in the case of AWOL-ing, either. It's just an emotional issue for most people because of their own personal experience in having to serve NS, while only a number of people will ever have the same experience with theft..
    Ok, you want to discuss nuance of legal interpretation. Fair enough, I do not disagree with your points. My sister is a lawyer, and as I understand it, justice is justice, and the law is the law, and they are often not the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by skinnylatte
    And I'm sorry to have riled you on the point about the hypothetical son (since erm, for me to have a son in the first place, it would mean I would have to be away from Singapore and I'm not allowed to get married here, if you know what I mean). Let's just say this system isn't conducive to people who can't help but still believe in individual liberty.
    People like to talk about individual "liberty", but only when it benefits them. If you feel that you have no duty or obligation to the state, then why should the state have any obligation or duty to you? Why should they care to provide potable water to your house, lighting, electricity? Why set up an emergency medical response system to help you in case you fall and hurt yourself? Why have a intelligence service to pre-empt terrorist acts? All for you? Someone who cherishes individual liberty above duty to country? I don't just mean you personally but all those whingers out there. You don't feel in the least that you should be giving something back? All these things happen in the background and are transparent to you, therefore it is taken for granted. When push comes to shove, the strident call goes out; "Oh, I cherish individual liberty!". IMO, just a cover for plain narrow-mindedness and selfishness.

    That pianist was selfish, plain and simple. The fact that he got off so lightly (and so publicly) just made it much harder for parents to justify to their sons why it should be an honourable duty to give 2 years to the country.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    Excerpt from SAF Act;

    "3. The following persons shall be persons subject to military law and this Act shall, subject to such exclusions or variations in relation to non-uniformed servicemen as may be prescribed, apply to them:

    (a) regular servicemen and full-time national servicemen in the Singapore Armed Forces from the time their liability to report for enlistment or service arises until such time as they are lawfully discharged or released;" (underline added for emphasis)

    this means that he should be subject to military law because his liability for enlistment or service arose and he was never lawfully discharged or released as long as he was in the UK.
    Thanks! This is very useful.

    In any case, the newspaper only reported the civil case. The civil court has no right to send the guy to DB.

    We don't know how the military court handled the case and probably will never know.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    People like to talk about individual "liberty", but only when it benefits them. If you feel that you have no duty or obligation to the state, then why should the state have any obligation or duty to you? Why should they care to provide potable water to your house, lighting, electricity? Why set up an emergency medical response system to help you in case you fall and hurt yourself? Why have a intelligence service to pre-empt terrorist acts? All for you? Someone who cherishes individual liberty above duty to country?
    Well said.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    Firstly I would like to say I am no supporting of the ruling party nor did I exactly love my National Service or my current reservist.

    However to be fair when Singapore first obtained independence, we were pretty much a lost cause. The British had pulled out, the rest of the world ignored our pleas for assistance. And in the end three countries who were basically pretty much like us isolated and abandoned children of the world got together and provided us with military assistance in the form of training and other classified items.

    In fact during our first two years of independence an invasion from our neighbours would have met with almost no resistance and we would now be part of some other country had they decided to do that.

    National Service was and still is the only way to build up a credible deterrent against foreign forces. Some may say, we have USA as our "big brother" or as some may noticed perhaps China from the way we are steering our foreign policy in favour of them. However as history has shown, one can depend on no one but one's own self. We can never totally depend on others as once policy changes in other countries or we are deemed to be no longer of strategic value, we would be left to suffice for ourselves. With our Armed Forces now, we may not be the biggest or the strongest but we can guarantee any aggressor a very hard fight with possibility heavy losses and make them think twice about an incursion into our borders.

    During the decline of the Chinese Empire, a powerful nation was brought to its knees by 8 superpowers of that time and made to pay out humilating "compensations". This will happen to any country that is weak and can't defend itself. An recent example would be Kuwait.

    We all have dreams to live for, but we must first understand this. Do we want to go pursue the dream and abandon our duty NOT to the Government not to even the country but to our families. Because National Service is not serving the Ruling Party or even the Flag.... for me when I serve, I know its protecting my family and keeping them safe.

    Anyway for the case of the panist, there is nothing we can do actually. If you guys haven't noticed, he is no longer a Singaporean. He is a British Citizen now...... At most we can do is not have him on the Jury of the Art Council Event

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Awol For 30 Years And Only Got $5000 Fine?

    I noticed that most who sided this Melvyn are mostly female, who did not go through NS, and most likely did not realise how important NS is. The rest, well, maybe ignorance abt the threats around us.
    Just look at the Hanging of Australian who was caught with 396g of drug at Changi.
    If SAF is filled with 'Melvyns', Australia will definitely send their troop over, walk into Changi Prison & take him away. What can we do? Yes, we can play a few pieces of Piano Concerto for them to enjoys.....
    "What u cannot protect, does not belong to U"
    If he can plays his piano to contribute to the security of S'pore, by all means, made him a Hero.

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