F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue

bpribadi · 18th November 2005

Hi, I just got my FinePix F11 yesterday, my first FinePix, have shot over 240 pictures. I like this camera, very fast operation, good auto white balance, and low noise.

But just recently I saw specific image quality issues, vertical banding on all medium dark areas, especially in ISO 800 and 1600. I can also see it in ISO 80, but the vertical banding problem is much less prominent in Low ISO.

Is it just me that have bad F11, or others also see same problem in dark areas, especially high ISO? Should I return the camera?

Thanks for any comments!

Here is a 100% zoom crop of ISO 800 that clearly shows the vertical banding:

bpribadi · 19th November 2005

Bump....

Is it normal to have that vertical banding? Anyone...?

ziploc · 19th November 2005

Hi bpribadi,

The crop looks quite normal to me, don't think your camera is having any problem. You can compare it to mine in this thread.

bpribadi · 19th November 2005

Originally Posted by ziploc

Hi bpribadi,

The crop looks quite normal to me, don't think your camera is having any problem. You can compare it to mine in this thread.

Thanks Zip, so do you often see the vertical banding also on your high ISO shots? Normally you can see it on medium dark areas.

megascriler · 19th November 2005

I can see the banding too. Maybe it's the noise reduction alogorithms that cause this?

bpribadi · 19th November 2005

Originally Posted by megascriler

I can see the banding too. Maybe it's the noise reduction alogorithms that cause this?

Do you mean, you have F11, and can see the vertical banding from your F11 pictures?

If that's the case, I don't have to go back to MS Color to compare mine with other F11, and assumed that this is one of F11 weakness.

megascriler · 19th November 2005

No from the picture you provided.

ziploc · 19th November 2005

Originally Posted by bpribadi

Thanks Zip, so do you often see the vertical banding also on your high ISO shots? Normally you can see it on medium dark areas.

Yes I do see them in some areas. I won't exactly call them "banding"; they are just noise patterns caused most probably by the noise reduction algorithm. I can't see them if the picture is scaled down to full screen on my 17" LCD monitor, which is already large then A4 print size. Unless you often need to print 2-storey high posters, I really don't think it matters. But if you do need to print 2-storey high posters, you probably won't be using this camera anyway.

bpribadi · 20th November 2005

I have tried F10 and have some samples of the ISO 800, better than my F11

No banding.

Mine is bit too much and too often, a bit irritating. Will try to check other F11 in MS color tomorrow, hopefully if other F11 has better performance I can change mine (still within 7 days shop warranty).

Another sample, gamma increased by 1.7 too make it easier to see the banding:

wiz23 · 20th November 2005

If u're uncomfortable with it, I guess u should do a check and get it changed ...

Do keep us updated

bpribadi · 21st November 2005

Originally Posted by wiz23

If u're uncomfortable with it, I guess u should do a check and get it changed ...

Do keep us updated

I'm very uncomfortable with it, here is another very bad sample:

I don't really mind noise, as long as it looks random and natural, not 'lines' like that

kajun_liu · 21st November 2005

Originally Posted by bpribadi

I'm very uncomfortable with it, here is another very bad sample:

I don't really mind noise, as long as it looks random and natural, not 'lines' like that

S2Pro also have this problem...
but it's visible when brighten up the shadow or increase exposure via RAW on under expose image...
shoot with high ISO image don't show any banding problem...

ultrazoom · 21st November 2005

Originally Posted by bpribadi

I don't really mind noise, as long as it looks random and natural, not 'lines' like that

I definitely agree, and the lines are really very obvious and distracting.

Do keep us updated whether your changed set gives the same problem.

sulhan · 21st November 2005

Hiee...

Noise(colourful dots) can not be avoided but the information can be masked or put through a nearest neighbours check algorithm to replace the "actually there" colorful dots with some colors that are real within nearby areas. SOme also mask off with dark color bits (black?)...
All these techniques will relsult in a systematic banding at times....

So we customers are the one usually sold at the "low noise" feature that is actually not that "low noise after all"..

rgds,
sulhan

Wai · 21st November 2005

no banding on my F10 even at ISO1600

Wai · 21st November 2005

ISO1600, 100% crop

bpribadi · 21st November 2005

Originally Posted by Wai

Thanks Wai! Your pic's noise looks natural, not like mine. Will go to MS color to verify it, I have SMS them, they said ok, can check

FYI, the banding is more obvious on bright LCD panel, not really obvious on my office CRT which brightness is lowered.

Will update you guys later.

Wai · 21st November 2005

Originally Posted by bpribadi

FYI, the banding is more obvious on bright LCD panel, not really obvious on my office CRT which brightness is lowered.

Will update you guys later.

That was a 100% crop taken at ISO1600

no banding on my LCD

Drudkh · 21st November 2005

yup, not on my F10 also. diff CCD on the F11?

gooseberry · 21st November 2005

These are some shots from my F11.

Only saw the vertical banding in one shot - not really bothered by it, but probably need to do some tests to see under what conditions it occurs - seems to be only under the Chrome colour option with severe underexposure.

ISO 1600 - colour option is normal

ISO 400 - colour option is chrome

18th November 2005	#1
bpribadi Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 253	F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue Hi, I just got my FinePix F11 yesterday, my first FinePix, have shot over 240 pictures. I like this camera, very fast operation, good auto white balance, and low noise. But just recently I saw specific image quality issues, vertical banding on all medium dark areas, especially in ISO 800 and 1600. I can also see it in ISO 80, but the vertical banding problem is much less prominent in Low ISO. Is it just me that have bad F11, or others also see same problem in dark areas, especially high ISO? Should I return the camera? Thanks for any comments! Here is a 100% zoom crop of ISO 800 that clearly shows the vertical banding: Last edited by bpribadi; 18th November 2005 at 09:40 PM.

19th November 2005	#2
bpribadi Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 253	Re: F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue Bump.... Is it normal to have that vertical banding? Anyone...?

19th November 2005	#3
ziploc Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Snoopyland Posts: 3,351	Re: F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue Hi bpribadi, The crop looks quite normal to me, don't think your camera is having any problem. You can compare it to mine in this thread.

19th November 2005	#5
megascriler Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 385	Re: F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue I can see the banding too. Maybe it's the noise reduction alogorithms that cause this?

19th November 2005	#7
megascriler Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 385	Re: F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue No from the picture you provided.

20th November 2005	#9
bpribadi Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 253	Re: F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue I have tried F10 and have some samples of the ISO 800, better than my F11 No banding. Mine is bit too much and too often, a bit irritating. Will try to check other F11 in MS color tomorrow, hopefully if other F11 has better performance I can change mine (still within 7 days shop warranty). Another sample, gamma increased by 1.7 too make it easier to see the banding:

20th November 2005	#10
wiz23 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bukit Panjang Posts: 2,939	Re: F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue If u're uncomfortable with it, I guess u should do a check and get it changed ... Do keep us updated __________________ My PBase Galleries

21st November 2005	#14
sulhan Advertiser Join Date: May 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 4,055	Just their Algorithm Hiee... Noise(colourful dots) can not be avoided but the information can be masked or put through a nearest neighbours check algorithm to replace the "actually there" colorful dots with some colors that are real within nearby areas. SOme also mask off with dark color bits (black?)... All these techniques will relsult in a systematic banding at times.... So we customers are the one usually sold at the "low noise" feature that is actually not that "low noise after all".. rgds, sulhan

21st November 2005	#15
Wai Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Pole with Penguin Posts: 5,185	Re: Just their Algorithm no banding on my F10 even at ISO1600 __________________ We are HDD of PC & FT are MB add to storage; so PC never hangs with enormous storage capacity - LKY

21st November 2005	#16
Wai Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Pole with Penguin Posts: 5,185	Re: Just their Algorithm ISO1600, 100% crop Last edited by Wai; 21st November 2005 at 01:52 PM.

21st November 2005	#19
Drudkh Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: lulu island Posts: 6,053	Re: Just their Algorithm yup, not on my F10 also. diff CCD on the F11? __________________ Where on earth did you ask? I got mine for 750.

21st November 2005	#20
gooseberry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central West Posts: 1,925	Re: F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue These are some shots from my F11. Only saw the vertical banding in one shot - not really bothered by it, but probably need to do some tests to see under what conditions it occurs - seems to be only under the Chrome colour option with severe underexposure. ISO 1600 - colour option is normal ISO 400 - colour option is chrome ISO 400 - colour option is chrome