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Thread: Camera valuation based on shutter count

  1. #1
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    Default Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Hi guys,

    What is the rule of thumb when it comes to evaluating second hand cameras based on shutter count? Let's say consumer camera's are rated 100k, semi pro 150k and pro 200k. What would you consider as "like new", "mint", "8/10" etc...whats the max s.c. you'd be happy with in relation to % of price of new camera?

    For semi-pro cameras (say d750 nikon or eos 5d mk2) it would be: "like new" is s.c. 0-100 and up to 90% original price, "mint" is s.c. < 1k and shld be ard 80% original price, 9/10 s.c <10k and ard 75% original price, 8/10 s.c. < 20k and 60-70% price. Would you agree?

    Plus, should there be some official guidelines regardng this on the marketplace - sticky note?

    Cheers,

  2. #2
    Senior Member shierwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    I doubt such rule of thumb and guidelines regarding shutter count can be made. And make it a sticky!!!
    Item for sale is between willing buyer and seller. If you feel uncomfortable with the shutter count, then don't deal.

    Will you feel comfortable buying a 5 year old pro body with shutter count of only, say, 1,000?
    Last edited by shierwin; 12th July 2016 at 04:43 PM.

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    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek View Post
    Hi guys,

    What is the rule of thumb when it comes to evaluating second hand cameras based on shutter count? Let's say consumer camera's are rated 100k, semi pro 150k and pro 200k. What would you consider as "like new", "mint", "8/10" etc...whats the max s.c. you'd be happy with in relation to % of price of new camera?

    For semi-pro cameras (say d750 nikon or eos 5d mk2) it would be: "like new" is s.c. 0-100 and up to 90% original price, "mint" is s.c. < 1k and shld be ard 80% original price, 9/10 s.c <10k and ard 75% original price, 8/10 s.c. < 20k and 60-70% price. Would you agree?

    Plus, should there be some official guidelines regardng this on the marketplace - sticky note?

    Cheers,
    your theory is base on everyone will follow these rules, but in real life nobody give a hoot to such thing, so how to enforce it?
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    your theory is base on everyone will follow these rules, but in real life nobody give a hoot to such thing, so how to enforce it?
    catchlights:
    You can't reset shutter count so cheating is out of question. Just take one shot and look at exif data and you get s.c.

    shierwin:
    depends on circumstances (say a backup body or appliation-specific one or yes perhaps other issues involved)! I'd be careful there but wouldn't trash the offer right away...

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek View Post
    catchlights:
    You can't reset shutter count so cheating is out of question. Just take one shot and look at exif data and you get s.c.
    Shutter count will be reset by service center upon shutter replacement. It is possible, the question is about what it takes.
    Regardng your initial question:
    The Buy & Sell guidelines state that "Mint" refers to unused items, that have been unpacked at maximum but not used. Now, we know that any camera BNIB has some shutter actuations (except 1 series, I heard). So with only a few clicks items can go as Mint.
    Secondly: we are talking about consumer electronics. This stuff drops in price quite quickly, additionally impacted by market sentiments, new models etc. So any flat pricing rule based only on shutter count will fail. In addition, if one has to sell quickly to make money then any price at the upper edge is somewhat useless, regardless how low the shutter count is.
    Last edited by Octarine; 12th July 2016 at 07:21 PM.
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    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek View Post
    catchlights:
    You can't reset shutter count so cheating is out of question. Just take one shot and look at exif data and you get s.c.

    shierwin:
    depends on circumstances (say a backup body or appliation-specific one or yes perhaps other issues involved)! I'd be careful there but wouldn't trash the offer right away...
    shutter actuation just an indication, it does not imply cameras with low shutter actuation won't fail. If you buy a used camera, you won't just look at the shutter actuation only.

    btw, take a look at this, they don't even mention shutter actuation in their grading system.

    https://www.keh.com/shop/grading-system

    anyway, my point is no one will follow whatever guideline closely. Seller set a price, buyer make an offer, if both party agree than the deal is ON.
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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Shutter count will be reset by service center upon shutter replacement. It is possible, the question is about what it takes.
    Regardng your initial question:
    The Buy & Sell guidelines state that "Mint" refers to unused items, that have been unpacked at maximum but not used. Now, we know that any camera BNIB has some shutter actuations (except 1 series, I heard). So with only a few clicks items can go as Mint.
    Secondly: we are talking about consumer electronics. This stuff drops in price quite quickly, additionally impacted by market sentiments, new models etc. So any flat pricing rule based only on shutter count will fail. In addition, if one has to sell quickly to make money then any price at the upper edge is somewhat useless, regardless how low the shutter count is.
    Just to add on, nikon cameras all come with 0 shutter count brand new out of the box. Olympus comes with a fair number of shots on the shutter count brand new out of the box. Fuji cams there is no way to check shutter count. Not sure about others.

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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default

    And as for what is a good shutter count, really depends on feel. An exceptionly low shutter count on an older cam is also a red flag. Either shutter has been replaced, or it has not been used regularly. Something that is seldom used over a long time will likely have more problems.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Shutter count is just a factor for consideration.

    Basically, it is all depends on demand and supply. Also, what price does a seller selling.

    Will you worry about shutter counts for this deal?

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1623396

    Apparently, the seller was willing to sell very cheap, way below the market. In this instance, I doubt that that buyer who bought from him is concerned about shutter counts, etc.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    there are actually alot of people selling cameras with less then 5k sc.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Hi

    Was talking to a camera expert/repair technician 2 weeks ago on this topic. The maximum shutter actuations on a Nikon DSLR he had seen was 9XX,XXX. Yes that is close to 1 million on a rated 150,000 shutter actuation camera. So the rule is never change the shutter mechanism just because it is getting high (say 100,000 actuations) because the new mechanism may go dead after 50,000 while the old mechanism may actually has another 100,000 life span. Change only when the shutter mechanism is dead.
    For mirrorless cameras, not too sure what is the lifespan for shutter cos they work very differently from DSLRs.

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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    I agree with most of the opinions here.. Definitely shutter count is just one factor. What it tells me is how heavy the camera has been used within a period of time. And in this context replacing the shutter (and resetting the count) should not do the trick since by the time shutter fails there would probably be other marks of usage on the camera so it would be hard to sell it as "new". What annoys me is when people call their merchandise as "mint" adding sth like "only 5k s.c.". That obviously is not mint. So I was thinking of shutter count in terms of a necessary but not sufficient condition. So if you want to call it mint you cant have more than x number of releases etc...thanks for discussion

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek View Post
    What annoys me is when people call their merchandise as "mint" adding sth like "only 5k s.c.". That obviously is not mint. So I was thinking of shutter count in terms of a necessary but not sufficient condition. So if you want to call it mint you cant have more than x number of releases etc...thanks for discussion
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek View Post
    I agree with most of the opinions here.. Definitely shutter count is just one factor. What it tells me is how heavy the camera has been used within a period of time. And in this context replacing the shutter (and resetting the count) should not do the trick since by the time shutter fails there would probably be other marks of usage on the camera so it would be hard to sell it as "new". What annoys me is when people call their merchandise as "mint" adding sth like "only 5k s.c.". That obviously is not mint. So I was thinking of shutter count in terms of a necessary but not sufficient condition. So if you want to call it mint you cant have more than x number of releases etc...thanks for discussion

    I rated mine as 6 and people also ask why 6? So sometime very difficult to rate also. Best to see the product yourself and decide. Of course if you rate as 10, it cannot be 5 lah.

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    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    I look for burnt pixels in a test shot myself. More worried about sensor than shutter.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 22nd July 2016 at 10:05 AM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

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    Senior Member richiemccaw1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek View Post
    I agree with most of the opinions here.. Definitely shutter count is just one factor. What it tells me is how heavy the camera has been used within a period of time. And in this context replacing the shutter (and resetting the count) should not do the trick since by the time shutter fails there would probably be other marks of usage on the camera so it would be hard to sell it as "new". What annoys me is when people call their merchandise as "mint" adding sth like "only 5k s.c.". That obviously is not mint. So I was thinking of shutter count in terms of a necessary but not sufficient condition. So if you want to call it mint you cant have more than x number of releases etc...thanks for discussion
    I do see where you are coming from.

    It's like how someone can say the item is brand new when he also mentions there's tens or hundreds of shots taken over just the few days or weeks he's owned the camera. Assessment and valuation of one's camera is unfortunately very subjective given the propensity for us to be more emotionally attached to gear than should be the case. Or the classic 'unfilled warranty card' for a camera that could have been bought more than a year ago.

    The best defence I guess is to sift through some of the smoke (whether intentionally added or not) and see what are the real dealbreakers for yourself. You cant control how others advertise anyway. A small scratch can really mean different things to different sellers.

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    Moderator nitewalk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    I totally love it when someone once wrote "Almost BNIB".

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    Senior Member shierwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by nitewalk View Post
    I totally love it when someone once wrote "Almost BNIB".
    ...except for a small scratch on the glass surface in the front of the lens; otherwise the lens is in mint condition...

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    Senior Member richiemccaw1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camera valuation based on shutter count

    Quote Originally Posted by shierwin View Post
    ...except for a small scratch on the glass surface in the front of the lens; otherwise the lens is in mint condition...
    And that scratch has no impact on image quality whatsoever. Thumbs up for the upfront honesty though seriously. For every such revelation, there are many other cases where you only realise that upon viewing the lens in person because the seller neglected to mention it as part of a 9.5/10 rating.

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