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Thread: Seven years to repair trains???

  1. #21
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    From the former Chief Editor of Today on the PR fiasco...

    https://sg.news.yahoo.com/comment-sm...013927667.html

  2. #22
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    a sad fact of our political sense of the population in general. Contributed in part by a very one sided political landscape for many years as well as a one dimensional education system.
    Which is the native fuel for conspiracy theories and rumours.
    "Rumours are halfway around the world before Truth has got its boots on." (Terry Pratchett, Truth)
    And for many, rumours are simply more entertaining. That one is really sad.
    EOS

  3. #23
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Which is the native fuel for conspiracy theories and rumours.
    "Rumours are halfway around the world before Truth has got its boots on." (Terry Pratchett, Truth)
    And for many, rumours are simply more entertaining. That one is really sad.
    It reflects a overall skepticism about our system and processes. Could eventually lead to bad results if trust is not reestablished. Hence the need for transparency.

  4. #24

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    Part of the reason for need for transparency is the LTA is using tax payers money (a lot of money) and should be accountable to the people.

    Are we getting good value for the money given that so many trains are defective?

    Cost of transport, which should be a public service and not profit drive, keeps increasing and there is them concern that this will pass on to consumers indirectly?

    Did the people involved make the right decision to buy more trains from the same vendor? The willingness to fix a problem is not a plus point to me.

    Transport is a sensitive issue given the many breakdown which "people" are not able to resolve and buying defective trains will surely not help.

    I agree that we need more people to stand up and question the decision makers and ensure accountability. Too often the SG system fails as people in charge are not accountable.

  5. #25
    Senior Member richiemccaw1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    I think it shows that we are not getting enough value for our votes. There is still not sufficient push factors to make the government of today change its ways. It is appalling that they think they can get away just by not being more upfront and not letting the local media get the scoop.

    Not sure if they feel embarrassed that foreign journalists were able to get so much evidence on our home soil and outscoop our world class media?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by lkf73 View Post
    Part of the reason for need for transparency is the LTA is using tax payers money (a lot of money) and should be accountable to the people.

    Are we getting good value for the money given that so many trains are defective?

    Cost of transport, which should be a public service and not profit drive, keeps increasing and there is them concern that this will pass on to consumers indirectly?

    Did the people involved make the right decision to buy more trains from the same vendor? The willingness to fix a problem is not a plus point to me.

    Transport is a sensitive issue given the many breakdown which "people" are not able to resolve and buying defective trains will surely not help.

    I agree that we need more people to stand up and question the decision makers and ensure accountability. Too often the SG system fails as people in charge are not accountable.
    yes, ACCOUNTABILITY. That is the word. Fully agree with what you said.

    Like the example of the HDB Lift problem. They should be accountable for the safety of the people using the lift, which is a daily necessity for people living in highrise buildings.

  7. #27
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by can100D View Post
    yes, ACCOUNTABILITY. That is the word. Fully agree with what you said.
    Like the example of the HDB Lift problem. They should be accountable for the safety of the people using the lift, which is a daily necessity for people living in highrise buildings.
    Accountability has been removed from corporate culture long time ago. The final nail in the coffin was the Enron scandal and subsequentally introduced corporate control mechanisms, where control processes, prodedures and approval chains are put in charge of corporate decisions. No chance to blame a single person. If something does not work it is the process.
    It is the perfect biotope of administrators and average midlevel managers with with moderate career plans and longrunning credit lines and pension plans. Leaders and innovation grow elsewhere.
    EOS

  8. #28
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Accountability has been removed from corporate culture long time ago.
    “Instead of naming the individuals and developing a blame culture in our healthcare institutions, we need to encourage a learning culture to make our hospitals as safe as possible for the patients.” – Health Minister Gan Kim Yong (2016)

  9. #29
    Senior Member shierwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    We may reflect on the ministerial responsibility at the time when the deal was contracted; one should not blame the present incumbent.

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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Accountability of the gov to the people. Since the people has given them the mandate.
    The gov as a whole. The whole process. Not individuals.

  11. #31
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Many folks seems to have missed the fact that SMRT is a company in the private sector...

  12. #32

    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Many folks seems to have missed the fact that SMRT is a company in the private sector...
    You are right. Many people are still living in disillusion.

    Our government is very smart that it privatised or corporatised many GLCs years ago.

    With such set up, not only that it can raise funds but also most decisions will be in the hands of the coroprate management instead of the government. However, the second point may not hold water as the government definitely has influence over any management decisons. On the flip side, when things go wrong, we can't point our fingers directly to the government because they are not in the management. A clever way indeed.

  13. #33
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Many folks seems to have missed the fact that SMRT is a company in the private sector...
    According to Kawasaki, http://www.khi.co.jp/news/detail/20120829_1.html, the trains were purchased by LTA, I.e., taxpayers of Singapore.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    According to Kawasaki, http://www.khi.co.jp/news/detail/20120829_1.html, the trains were purchased by LTA, I.e., taxpayers of Singapore.
    LTA buy on behalf of SMRT? or

    LTA buy and lease to SMRT? so ownership is still with LTA or

    LTA sponsors x quantities of trains to SMRT in order to address the operational issues.
    Last edited by Jedi; 12th July 2016 at 10:49 AM.

  15. #35
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
    LTA buy on behalf of SMRT? or LTA buy and lease to SMRT? so ownership is still with LTA or LTA sponsors x quautities of trains to SMRT in order to address to operational issues.
    http://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/...-Singapore.PDF

    "Under the 2010 revision of the rail-financing framework mentioned earlier, the government would own all operating assets and associated risks for major capital—a significant change from previously where the operators had to pay for the historical cost of replacement assets. Under the new framework, LTA would collect a licence charge from the operator in exchange for the right to run and generate returns from the revenue service. This change enabled the LTA to directly make the decisions on replacing existing trains and operating assets, and on investing in new trains and operating assets—which were decisions previously made by the PTOs. The LTA thus gained more ability to directly respond to changes in demand and public expectations."

  16. #36

    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    http://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/...-Singapore.PDF

    "Under the 2010 revision of the rail-financing framework mentioned earlier, the government would own all operating assets and associated risks for major capital—a significant change from previously where the operators had to pay for the historical cost of replacement assets. Under the new framework, LTA would collect a licence charge from the operator in exchange for the right to run and generate returns from the revenue service. This change enabled the LTA to directly make the decisions on replacing existing trains and operating assets, and on investing in new trains and operating assets—which were decisions previously made by the PTOs. The LTA thus gained more ability to directly respond to changes in demand and public expectations."
    So it is the second arrangement. LTA buy and lease to SMRT. Ownership is with LTA.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Read and understand....

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...s/2935514.html

    PS.... most factories/ship yard, doesn't sit around waiting for customer to send trains back for repair or modification.... they actively built something for a living... meaning they may not have empty slots in the factory line to repair large amount of return trains. Also, each train is custom made... therefore most of the bodies of the trains have to be custom built too... all this take time.
    It's too easy for us to forget that:

    "罗马不是一天建成的."

  18. #38
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    http://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/...-Singapore.PDF

    "Under the 2010 revision of the rail-financing framework mentioned earlier, the government would own all operating assets and associated risks for major capital—a significant change from previously where the operators had to pay for the historical cost of replacement assets. Under the new framework, LTA would collect a licence charge from the operator in exchange for the right to run and generate returns from the revenue service. This change enabled the LTA to directly make the decisions on replacing existing trains and operating assets, and on investing in new trains and operating assets—which were decisions previously made by the PTOs. The LTA thus gained more ability to directly respond to changes in demand and public expectations."
    So it becomes confusing... SMRT never disclose the train recalls. But since LTA owns the trains and leased to SMRT, SMRT should have disclosed the recall to LTA... so now comes the questions:
    1. did SMRT report the discovery of cracks to LTA immediately? If yes, then why LTA (as a govt entity) did not disclose this in a timely fashion?
    2. if SMRT did not report the discovery to LTA, then SMRT did not do its job to report to the LTA.

    Either way, both scenarios looks bad for both SMRT and LTA...

    We can talk till the cows come home actually... but nothing will change. It will brushed under the carpet and forgotten till the next election. Most singaporeans will talk with passoion, but then times come for action, they will be indifferent. I have long given up....
    Last edited by daredevil123; 12th July 2016 at 10:08 AM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Seven years to repair trains???

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    We can talk till the cows come home actually... but nothing will change. It will brushed under the carpet and forgotten till the next election. Most singaporeans will talk with passoion, but then times come for action, they will be indifferent. I have long given up....
    Election is a totally different ball game. There are 101 reasons why majority of Singaporeans gave the government a strong mandate.

  20. #40

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    Minister mention that information on the cracked trains were not reported to public to avoid causing unnecessary fear to public.

    Would you withhold bad news to your boss to avoid him being unnecessarily concern?!!!! What kind of attitude and reply is that?

    There are ways to communicate bad news without causing unnecessary fear. If not, can go back to school to learn.

    Also, it shows how the garmen is treating tax payers money. Remember the Brompton bike issue? Who is checking to make sure that all the contracts and tenders are properly managed?

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