Friend's wedding with KM gear (impressions)

[Timber Wolf]

Hello there! I'm not sure where to post this, but since I covered the wedding with KM gear I'll post my experience and impressions here

Wedding was yesterday at Hotel Grand central
Lighting was adequate/moderately bright, about 1/15th f/2.8 ISO 400 (you do the math)
My equipment consisted of:
D7D (mounted 24-70)
D5D (Thanks Zengyu) (mounted 17-35)
KM 17-35 f/2.8-4 (Thanks DCA)
Sigma 24-70 f/2.8
Tokina 80-200 f/2.8 (Thanks MadAnt)
5600HSD flashgun (Thanks DCA)
Lightsphere II original (Thanks DCA)
Compactdrive PD70X with 40GB hard disk (Thanks Drumma)
Lowepro belt and various cases to keep the stuff in.

Impressions:
D7D vs D5D:
I find the cameras both very similar in performance, and if not for the build material, I would go for the 5D. While i'll miss the dials of the 7D and its LCD, the Fn. Dial on the 5D is not bad, and coupled with the weight savings, it's easier to manage during the shoot.

For some reason I find the AF on the 5D to be more confident (i.e. locks focus and stops rather than shifting about) than the 7D. Maybe cos it's noisier, but it inspires confidence when I use it. I have had shots where the 7D beeps, but the pix are slightly out of focus. The 5D was spot-on all the time.

KM 17-35 f/2.8-4
THANK GOD (though i'm a freethinker lol) that DCA lent me this lens for the wedding. It focuses quickly, allowed me to go in close, and most importantly, allowed me to shoot the group table shots (yam seng and etc). My 24-70 was not wide enough. Even then, I was forced to the wall sometimes, just to get the shot. 16mm fisheye next?

Sigma 24-70 f/2.8
Focuses fast and is very sharp, useful for medium-range shots/closeups. I had problems with frontfocusing with my 7D (despite sending for service twice, maybe i'll send it to Sigma for checkup) but was spot-on with my 5D. Great for isolating people (bride/groom etc) and catching candids.

Tokina 80-200 f/2.8
Did not use during wedding at all (as predicted by DCA) BUT very very useful for the outdoor shoot. I love the perspective this lens gives (clean background and compressed). Bokeh is lovelylovelylovely and I'm in love with this lens. Pity it doesn't have a lens hood, cos when focussed to minimum distance, it's prone to flare as the front element is very close to the end of the lens barrel.

5600HSD Flashgun
Lovely. Even without the external battery pack the flash recycles fast enough for my uses. Metering is consistent with the 7D and 5D (though I had a problem at the start with the 7D with severe underexposure. It cleared itself up after 5 shots, thankfully.) With the 5D I had to experiment with the power settings on the flash (Level) to achieve a good ambient/flash balance. The press-release system meant that I could change flash from the 7D to 5D whenever I needed it. I wanna get one, or the new flash to be released next year. Anyone has a 5600 from the MO that he/she doesn't want and wants to sell from less than $400?

Lightsphere II diffuser
OMG it rox! No shadows, no ugly face-oil glare. I'll get one along with the 5600HSD

Compactdrive PD70X
Works as promised. I'm very impressed. Card copying speed was in the range of 7-9mb/s depending on what kind of card is used. Batteries lasted throughout ceremony with 12gb of transfers (4 shooters) and still read full after that. Operation can be performed one-handed and is very convenient. However, the supplied case had a rather flimsy "sliplock" system and I was rather scared that it would drop. It has 2mm aluminium though. =)
Another thing: The CF card sticks out when copying files. I was scared that I might bump into sth and break the card. Nothing bad happened though (touchwood)


Ok, done with the equipment.
Stuff to note:
1. Set exposure to manual mode. That way you won't get wonky exposures when you point at black suit/white dress. Flash metering normally will take care of itself.

2. During march-in, SET CAMERA TO MANUAL FOCUS as the room will be extremely dark. I missed the march-in shot because my 5D hunted for focus as i pressed the button. Recommend pre-focusing, then setting to manual focus. Luckily my friend got the shot.

3. Go in close. It creates a more "personal" feel to it, like the photographer is actually part of the action/event.

4. Bring a backup camera and if possible, accessories. My 7D started backfocusing with the 24-70 in the middle of the ceremony (nervous mah. like me) so I switched to the 17-35 on the 7D and 24-70 on the 5D. Worked perfectly after that.

5. While shooting, use your other eye to monitor the situation around you. Not so much to identify potential shots (though that's impt too) but to look out for yourself in a crowded situation. My friend nearly backed off the ceremonial stage! No shot is worth your life.

6. Work fast/work smart. My group had a personal assistant to arrange the next table when we were shooting table shots. She really really extremely rawks. We were able to shoot 22 tables in 14 minutes this way.

7. Coordination could be improved. We worked largely alone. With 4 photogs, can arrange for teams of 2 to be active while the other two take a break. My stamina was quite strained during the shoot.

8. Realise that no-one is perfect. I nearly cried after I missed the march-in shot (see above about manual focus). But after sleeping over it, I realised that we do make mistakes sometimes, and since my friend got the shot, there's nothing to worry about. Maybe it's about personal responsibility or sth, but I thought (during the dinner) that I had failed. Sometimes we get the shot, sometimes we don't. No point bashing yourself over missed shots.

Okae. Done. Whew. Thanks for reading my vehvehveh long post! =)
Post comments kae? I'm not allowed to post the pix on the internet as I haven't got the couple's permission.

Cheers
QX

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

got comments... when u returning my stuff? hehehee...

anyway, like i told u, the 17-35 for D7D or D5D is most essential for wedding photography... thats until they make FF sensors...

[Timber Wolf]

Anytime you need it bro =)
Just sms me or sth!

QX

[MadAnt]

Wow, you actually used the 80-200!
Flare problems? Maybe because my lens is dirty? =P

There shouldn't be a need to use manual focus, with your focus assist beam from the flash, it should be able to focus pretty well.
Maybe you should aim to focus at high contrast area ( i.e Not the bride's grown )

I am surprised that you guys only got one shot at the walk in.
I would have thought the couple would have walked pretty slow.
Maybe next time you could have communicated with the bride and groom to slow down a little bit while they see you photographers infront of them.
Is the red carpet that short? Not enough time to run towards the stage for one more try?
Always try to create chances for more than "one shot".

4 photographers!?
That's ermm... quite a lot...
I think you are tired because of all the gears you are carrying!
Nay, you look pretty fit... Must be because of the stress...

By the way, are you using F2.8 in your shots? The shots might come out a bit soft, not so sharp.
1/15sec might be a tad too slow to capture the "action".
It seems rather ermm.. funny ( for the lack of better words ) that your lens can kanna front/back focus in the middle of event?
Try using the focus chart to check the lens out.
Also, focusing with wide angles and large aperture can be tricky.

To get a good ambient light balance, you should be playing with the ISO, aperture and shutter speed rather than the flash compensation?? ( reference to comments in 5600HSD section )

And no, don't use fisheye lens or even the wider lens ( ~12mm ) to take group photos!

To me, it is ok for long post as long as they are informative, constructive, comment worthy and properly structured ( like yours )
I am gulity of long posts too often

Cheers,
P.S. I lost your number when I flashed my phone...
Just drop me a msg or call me.
Anyday except thursday, before next week please.
Might have a shoot coming up =)

[lumen]

hey timberwolf... sounds like you had lotsa fun

i'm not a techie but you did mention that your 7D started to backfocus... don't think that is really a backfocus problem bcos your 7D wld have consistently backfocus throughout the shots.

i guess the prob you face with the 'backfocus' is the same as mine... the 7D autofocus, well, doesn't work that fast... and even worse in low light conditions... i think sometimes we 'gan-jiong', then wanna capture the moment, we just fast fast press down the shutter when actually not focused properly (and we no time to double check carefully in viewfinder). i'm not sure if i'm right though... perhaps the rest of users wanna comment

(BTW i really really really wish the 7D can autofocus much faster!!! it's my BIGGEST gripe about this camera... i miss my Dynax 7 film version man... it's so fast... but of cos we can manual focus lah...)

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Originally Posted by lumen hey timberwolf... sounds like you had lotsa fun i'm not a techie but you did mention that your 7D started to backfocus... don't think that is really a backfocus problem bcos your 7D wld have consistently backfocus throughout the shots. i guess the prob you face with the 'backfocus' is the same as mine... the 7D autofocus, well, doesn't work that fast... and even worse in low light conditions... i think sometimes we 'gan-jiong', then wanna capture the moment, we just fast fast press down the shutter when actually not focused properly (and we no time to double check carefully in viewfinder). i'm not sure if i'm right though... perhaps the rest of users wanna comment (BTW i really really really wish the 7D can autofocus much faster!!! it's my BIGGEST gripe about this camera... i miss my Dynax 7 film version man... it's so fast... but of cos we can manual focus lah...)

aiya, u guys hor, dun forget that D7D have AS lor... and for all i know to use D7D for this kind, we set the aperture down to get DOF, then since AS allow us to handheld longer, we use this to compensate lor... my regular setting, f5.6-f8, shutter speed 1/20, den lightsphere all the way up...

[lumen]

Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt aiya, u guys hor, dun forget that D7D have AS lor... and for all i know to use D7D for this kind, we set the aperture down to get DOF, then since AS allow us to handheld longer, we use this to compensate lor... my regular setting, f5.6-f8, shutter speed 1/20, den lightsphere all the way up...

oooohh ahhhhh... can try this next time

anyway... i want a better AF i don't care hahahaha... good AF good AS... combine equal steady go beep beep camera.

[jsbn]

17-35! How does it fight against the kit 18-70 lens in low light situations?

I've got a ROM to cover next month. Who wanna lend it to me to have a go?

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Originally Posted by jsbn 17-35! How does it fight against the kit 18-70 lens in low light situations? I've got a ROM to cover next month. Who wanna lend it to me to have a go?

17-35 is f2.8-4 leh... yours how 2 fight?

anyway the best is still the 17-35 f3.5 G... or change system to Nikon... 17-55f2.8... woot... 2k for this lens...

[Drudkh]

sigma also have 18-50 f/2.8 for KM mah.

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Originally Posted by Drudkh sigma also have 18-50 f/2.8 for KM mah.

17!!!! 55!!!!

hehehe....

[Drudkh]

Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt 17!!!! 55!!!! hehehe....

you are so dead!

[TME]

Hi Timber Wolf, glad u got your gear and had fun... actually 4 photographers per wedding dinner is a little overkill??? I did one wedding dinner all one my own - about 35 tables.

I like 1/30sec f/5.6 when I was using the Dynax 7 on Fuji Superia 400... these days can go down to 1/20 so that every shot is still sharp...

Actually I am surprised that u missed the march-in... I actually walked out of the restaurant with the couple and briefed them to walk slow... before the wedding, I identified where I wanted to shoot the couple walking in... just pre-focus on people nearby and then when they come in, focus on the most contrasting part of the couple, like the groom's collar (black against white) I use only the centre focus sensor. I also put my camera on continous mode... once focus lock shoot ar! Then cherry pick lor... anyway, u're on digital...

Need to familiarise yourself with the carpet, stage and position of the tables around the stage... like that can change place very easily without missing any action... I arrived like 30 minutes before and starting snapping test shots with all my lenses at various points and focal lengths to understand and feel the reach of my lenses in the restaurant first... like that easier u give yourself some fallback plan if u get caught out...

Sorry for the long post as well but yours was very interesting...

[TME]

Originally Posted by Drudkh you are so dead!

What's the deal?

[forbytes]

shoot jpeg or raw?

[Drudkh]

Haha, my sister's wedding 1 year ago, also got 4 photographers! including me.

JPEG! of course! 2000 frames in total!

[Timber Wolf]

Hihi! Wow, i'm surprised at the response and the tips! Thanksthanks! =D

Madant
Well, yup. General loss of contrast, and that's even after I cleaned it. At botanical gardens, the 70-200 was sharp wide open, but had quite abit of ghosting, gone at f/3.5. Fine detail was nicely rendered, and frankly for portraits I quite welcome that lil bit of ghosting. Almost like a soft-focus effect.
My 7D started consistently misfocusing, even after the beep was given. At tele it's perfect, as you zoom out it starts progressively frontfocusing. The 5D does not exhibit this problem.
Rgd. Flash balance, I did settle on 1/20, f/4.5 ISO 400, which gave a nice background which was slightly darker.
I agree, 4 photogs was abit overkill, but what to do. No experience mah, so with 4 pple, there's a chance that one of us will get a gd shot And also to give my xiaodis some experience on event photog.

Lumen
Yes I had lots of fun on hindsight, but believe me, when you're doing it for the first time, no amount of reading up or equipment tests can prepare you for The Day Itself. =P My flash started underexposing 3-4 stops before the couple arrived, and if you ask my friends, the look on my face was very scary, somewhere between "ohshitohshitohshit" and "screw up die liao". Luckily the problem resolved itself after 10 shots.

Rgd gan-jiong hmm... I'm not sure. My cameras were set to release priority, so perhaps that could be a factor. But I remember that I heard the beep before I pressed the shutter. Maybe during that time the subject moved (I had very shallow DoF) and went out of focus.

I tried DCA's 7, and the focusing was lovely. Save money for the 7DII with hyperfocus! =)

jsbn
Didn't use the 5D kit lens, left it at home ^_^ But I've tried it on another occasion. I find it an extremely good walkaround lens. Sharpness is very good, and sometimes due to the extra DoF at 70mm f/5.6, it seems sharper than my 24-70. Focusing speed on the 5D is very fast, but I elected to leave it at home as I didn't have any other space, and I thought that the low light and small aperture would hinder focusing.

TME
Thanks man. The ballroom was extremely small, and the couple were a little nervous (who wouldn't be? Inexperience is a good thing ) and walked in faster than normal. I only got that one shot because I panicked. Felt like bashing myself then.

The ballroom was like an obstacle course. 22 tables in such a small space. I had to squeeze like siao, and almost no space to shoot the group shots. If there had been a fire it'd be hard to get everyone out >_<

Forbytes
I shot RAW + JPEG(L) for the 7D, and RAW for the 5D, owing to the 5D's ability to magnify RAW files. One thing I noticed is that the 5D takes ages to magnify a RAW file if you don't save a JPEG along with it. Maybe it's debayering the RAW?
The 5D's battery life is very very good, and though I used it as my main camera, the battery level remained at full, whereas I went through a 7D battery.
In all, I generated 3gb of data including JPEGs, with 297 images, 140 chosen for inclusion to the CD. The Compactdrive was used to backup the files on the go, and performed admirably.


Okie. Whew. Another long post =D
Anyone wanna sell 5600HSD?

QX

[jsbn]

Originally Posted by Timber Wolf jsbn Didn't use the 5D kit lens, left it at home ^_^ But I've tried it on another occasion. I find it an extremely good walkaround lens. Sharpness is very good, and sometimes due to the extra DoF at 70mm f/5.6, it seems sharper than my 24-70. Focusing speed on the 5D is very fast, but I elected to leave it at home as I didn't have any other space, and I thought that the low light and small aperture would hinder focusing.

I'm covering for a friend's ROM next month. Whilst I had done my friend's wedding once in a ballroom, I had the luxury of owning a 17-40L. I had covered low-light stuff with an 18-55 f/3.5 - 5.6 lens as well. But then again, its an ROM we're toking abt, so I'm personally not very sure abt low-light handling of the 5D kit lens.

But I do agree. Having 18-70mm focal length is definitely a good walkabout lens. From landscapes to portraits in travels.