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Thread: Viewing photos at 1:1

  1. #1

    Default Viewing photos at 1:1

    Hi

    I just got a D750 with kit lens and 50mm 1.8, but I feel that the photos that I shot is not really that sharp with 1:1.

    I shot landscape and I will view the photos 1:1 in the light-room.


    Regards
    Last edited by ErikaT; 30th May 2016 at 05:42 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    It will be much easier if you can put up some 1:1 sample shots (non-edited) and the used settings for folks here to help. There's tonnes of things that could lead to a non sharp photo.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by CamInit View Post
    It will be much easier if you can put up some 1:1 sample shots (non-edited) and the used settings for folks here to help. There's tonnes of things that could lead to a non sharp photo.
    Hi
    These are the photos that I have taken. These photos have being processed in term of color
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/139490...737903/sizes/l
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/139490...029025/sizes/l

    This first photo is taken at 1/125 and the 2nd one is at 1/500.

    I feel that my hand is not stable, which may be one of the cause of it
    Last edited by ErikaT; 30th May 2016 at 10:33 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    First one f/11, 1/125s at 24mm seems okay to me.
    Second one you are shooting at f/4, 1/500s at 92mm and hence look softer. Why not stop down a bit?

    If you are referring towards the edges, I suppose is normal for the particular lens? Maybe folks who uses that lens can comment. Though in the first photo, the left side does seems slightly softer than the right. A bit of de-centering? Hard to tell with just one photo. Personally, if for web-use, I wouldn't bother so much.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikaT View Post
    I feel that my hand is not stable, which may be one of the cause of it
    Possible, can try using a tripod.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    If you are shooting jpegs you may need to crank up the sharpness setting in camera. Shoot in RAW and you will be able to see how that sharpness setting works. It has been claimed by many on the net that factory camera settings on Nikons are soft (maybe for video?) and generally speaking I have found that to be true. Another thing is maybe a need for lens calibration software. When you are talking that many pixels sub par technique and equipment and set up etc will definitely show up big time. Be patient and work through it you will eventually discover how to make the camera sing like it should.

    I would add maybe handhold shoot at a min shutter speed at least twice maybe even three times the focal length used. Also bear in mind most really good landscape shooters use a tripod.

    Keep on you'll get there soon...

    Elbows in camera firmly on cheek lean against something if you have too...
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 31st May 2016 at 09:15 AM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  7. #7

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikaT View Post
    Hi

    I just got a D750 with kit lens and 50mm 1.8, but I feel that the photos that I shot is not really that sharp with 1:1.

    I shot landscape and I will view the photos 1:1 in the light-room.


    Regards
    A few observations:
    Your initial post was asking about the D750 with a 50/1.8 but your example photos were shot with the 24-120 f4 (VR?). Maybe you can clarify which lens you're having trouble with, or both?

    Your examples do seem to be not particularly crisp even though the shutter speeds seem adequate. Best way is to try and eliminate some variables with a bit of testing.
    As suggested, try some tripod tests to find out just how sharp your copy of the lens is. Then with good hand held technique and adequate shutter speeds you should be able to get similar results. If not, then there's something about your technique.

    Are you using VR? If so, don't use VR for shots above 1/500s (which I know you haven't in your examples but this is just a general rule for Nikon VR). Also when using VR, let the VR engage for a second and stabilise with a half press before full press to trigger the shutter. I don't own the 24-120 but some Nikon lenses have different VR modes so make sure you're in the right mode for the occasion.
    I'd generally leave VR off unless my shutter speeds are starting to approach the 1/FL rule then I'd engage it for some insurance.

    In terms of your two examples, the first one at 24mm has some issues in the corners with smearing and CA but that could just be the limitation of the lens. To me the left side is worse than the right, possibly indicating a little decentering of the lens.

    In the second example, only the central portion is in focus. The rest is out of the DOF of the aperture chosen. But even for the central portion, it appears the 24-120 lens is not particularly strong at the tele end anyways:
    http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/574...f4vrff?start=1

    The possible lens optical issues coupled with possible technique issues may indeed result in images looking quite soft when viewed up close eg. at 1:1.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post
    A few observations:
    Your initial post was asking about the D750 with a 50/1.8 but your example photos were shot with the 24-120 f4 (VR?). Maybe you can clarify which lens you're having trouble with, or both?

    Your examples do seem to be not particularly crisp even though the shutter speeds seem adequate. Best way is to try and eliminate some variables with a bit of testing.
    As suggested, try some tripod tests to find out just how sharp your copy of the lens is. Then with good hand held technique and adequate shutter speeds you should be able to get similar results. If not, then there's something about your technique.

    Are you using VR? If so, don't use VR for shots above 1/500s (which I know you haven't in your examples but this is just a general rule for Nikon VR). Also when using VR, let the VR engage for a second and stabilise with a half press before full press to trigger the shutter. I don't own the 24-120 but some Nikon lenses have different VR modes so make sure you're in the right mode for the occasion.
    I'd generally leave VR off unless my shutter speeds are starting to approach the 1/FL rule then I'd engage it for some insurance.

    In terms of your two examples, the first one at 24mm has some issues in the corners with smearing and CA but that could just be the limitation of the lens. To me the left side is worse than the right, possibly indicating a little decentering of the lens.

    In the second example, only the central portion is in focus. The rest is out of the DOF of the aperture chosen. But even for the central portion, it appears the 24-120 lens is not particularly strong at the tele end anyways:
    http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/574...f4vrff?start=1

    The possible lens optical issues coupled with possible technique issues may indeed result in images looking quite soft when viewed up close eg. at 1:1.
    Thanks for your reply.

    I will try to get something like a tripod this weekend to do the test out.

    In your reply, you recommend to turn off the VR when shutter speed is faster than 1/500, but the 24-120 cannot switch the VR off like the canon.

    Or is it to do with the lens calibration?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikaT View Post
    In your reply, you recommend to turn off the VR when shutter speed is faster than 1/500, but the 24-120 cannot switch the VR off like the canon.
    ?







    via: http://nikonasia-en.custhelp.com/app...vr-user-manual

  10. #10

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    WOW you are very efficient. I will go home and have a look of my lens, I am really a noob

  11. #11

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    See Kandinsky's reply and take note of the 'Notes on using vibration reduction' on Pg 16.
    Second bullet point: halfway press, wait for image to stabilise before pressing the rest of the way down.
    Keep the mode on normal for most cases.
    Second last bullet point on Pg 17: When you get a chance to test on a tripod, turn VR off. Even if its not on a tripod but you've rest the camera/lens on a stable surface, eg. a balcony, then turn VR off for those shots.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post
    the first photo, the left side does seems slightly softer than the right. A bit of de-centering?

    To me the left side is worse than the right, possibly indicating a little decentering of the lens
    Hi all, I found that most of the pics that the 24-120 lens produced are softer on the left side. Do anyone thinks that the decentering problem is big here that I need to go down to nikon centre to fix it?

    These are the other photos that I have taken
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/139490...57665233393733

    and I will test the lens with flat surface during the weekend and see how it goes
    Last edited by ErikaT; 1st June 2016 at 10:01 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikaT View Post
    Hi all, I found that most of the pics that the 24-120 lens produced are softer on the left side. Do anyone thinks that the decentering problem is big here that I need to go down to nikon centre to fix it?

    These are the other photos that I have taken
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/139490...57665233393733

    and I will test the lens with flat surface during the weekend and see how it goes
    I'd probably not worry about decentering at this stage and small amount of decentering are not uncommon with many lenses. I see bigger issues with your general technique to be quite honest.
    Anyways, decentering is best tested at infinity so finding a scene where all the detail is far away is best.
    Testing is best done on tripods too and if you haven't already done so, also check your AF accuracy.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post
    I'd probably not worry about decentering at this stage and small amount of decentering are not uncommon with many lenses. I see bigger issues with your general technique to be quite honest.
    Anyways, decentering is best tested at infinity so finding a scene where all the detail is far away is best.
    Testing is best done on tripods too and if you haven't already done so, also check your AF accuracy.
    I agree with you that my technique is not there yet.

    and how do i check the AF accuracy of my d750 in a more simple way? the websites that demonstrates the AF test is too complicated

  15. #15
    Senior Member shierwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    I don't think you can get simpler than this:

    http://bobatkins.com/photography/tec...s_testing.html

  16. #16

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by shierwin View Post
    I don't think you can get simpler than this:

    http://bobatkins.com/photography/tec...s_testing.html
    I have did the test with my 2 lens.

    The 50mm is very fine with manual or Auto focus; While the 24-120, I cant really test it as the aperture is @ 4( the whole paper is sharp)

    I found that both lens produce sharp test pics when i use the table as a tripod.

    However, I see that the pics from my 24-120, seems to be softer on the (far)left side than the right. Will it be a major issue if I print it A3+ size ?

    and i have read somewhere that all lens will have some kind of de centralised issue. Is that true?


    Regards

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikaT View Post
    I have did the test with my 2 lens.

    The 50mm is very fine with manual or Auto focus; While the 24-120, I cant really test it as the aperture is @ 4( the whole paper is sharp)

    I found that both lens produce sharp test pics when i use the table as a tripod.

    However, I see that the pics from my 24-120, seems to be softer on the (far)left side than the right. Will it be a major issue if I print it A3+ size ?

    and i have read somewhere that all lens will have some kind of de centralised issue. Is that true?


    Regards
    As swifty metioned, I think there are more things to be concerned about rather than the de-centralised issue.

    Don't worry about printing A3++ sizes. Even if it's going to be printed at large size, people will be also standing further away to view it and not scrutinize pixel by pixel on the print.

    The decentralizing issue does occur, but usually, that is after years of usage (or abuse), due to movements via walking or "knocking" in the bags on in the vehicle etc... .. ..

    On another note, when shooting at wide open, don't expect that the image will be sharp edge to edge. Frankly, when exported and uploaded online (500px, flickr, facebook etc.), no one can tell the difference. If anyone could tell the differences when uploaded via those channels, I think it's also time to send to the service center for a long overdue checkup.


    ** Viewers are less likely to notice any minor flaws as compared to the photographer who shot it.
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  18. #18

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    As swifty metioned, I think there are more things to be concerned about rather than the de-centralised issue.

    Don't worry about printing A3++ sizes. Even if it's going to be printed at large size, people will be also standing further away to view it and not scrutinize pixel by pixel on the print.

    The decentralizing issue does occur, but usually, that is after years of usage (or abuse), due to movements via walking or "knocking" in the bags on in the vehicle etc... .. ..

    On another note, when shooting at wide open, don't expect that the image will be sharp edge to edge. Frankly, when exported and uploaded online (500px, flickr, facebook etc.), no one can tell the difference. If anyone could tell the differences when uploaded via those channels, I think it's also time to send to the service center for a long overdue checkup.


    ** Viewers are less likely to notice any minor flaws as compared to the photographer who shot it.
    Thanks for your comforting replies. I will do more shoots with my set ups

  19. #19

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    I'll echo some of skystrike's advice. Don't get too bogged down with minor detail. Focus (pardon the pun) on the big picture and getting the basics right.
    In terms of AF fine tuning, it can be extremely simple or very difficult depending on how pedantic you want to be. But a quick explanation: for Nikon cameras you can only have one fine tune value per lens regardless of zooms or prime. The trouble is some lens may need different values at different focal lengths and focus distances.
    Fortunately lenses don't tend to vary that wildly and unless you're photographing very close subjects with very large apertures, the DOF tends to hide any inaccuracies.
    So if you're photographing a target chart (do it at the widest aperture with the central AF point) at a close-ish distance and it is sharp, then your stopped down results photographing subjects at a distance shouldn't have enough focus issues to cause problems.
    So your soft results are coming from elsewhere.
    Later when you're comfortable with the basics, then go back to properly fine tune your lenses and you'll find your results may improve even more. Then try tripods, mirror-up, remote trigger, EFC etc. and results may continue to improve from the basics.
    I guess what I'm saying is eliminate your largest source of error first, then work on the finer detail later.

    So what are some of the basics. Your shutter speed and hand holding technique. The 1/FL guide for shutter speed is only a guide. People often recommend 1/2*FL or 1/3*FL for shutter speeds especially with high MP cameras.
    This assumes you're holding the camera and triggering the shutter correctly. Nikonzen reminded you of this earlier in this thread.
    The triggering part I've already talked about, especially if you're utilising the lens VR but also its a soft press and not a stabbing press that I see a lot of people do. On longer lenses, make sure you're supporting the lens with the left hand, actually I recommend you always support the lens with your left hand, elbows tucked in. Just get in the good habit.

    Making sure the camera locks focus on what you want it to focus on (solid green dot confirmation). Which means you may need to find areas of higher contrast within the same plane of focus, AF lock then recompose. Or shift your AF point. If you're letting the camera choose your AF points, you may want to start controlling the AF points yourself. Make sure you're in the right AF mode of course.

    Knowing the effects of aperture and its relationship with DOF. So things will only be considered reasonably sharp within the DOF. DOF also relates to viewing distance which relates to viewing your images at 1:1 or fit to screen or printed to x size and viewed from y distance etc. Know that lens perform differently at various apertures and focal lengths. And you get diminishing returns stopping down further as diffraction effects start to set in beyond a certain point.

    I won't go on cos I've probably already blabbered on too much but I think you get the idea

  20. #20

    Default Re: Viewing photos at 1:1

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post
    I'll echo some of skystrike's advice. Don't get too bogged down with minor detail. Focus (pardon the pun) on the big picture and getting the basics right.
    In terms of AF fine tuning, it can be extremely simple or very difficult depending on how pedantic you want to be. But a quick explanation: for Nikon cameras you can only have one fine tune value per lens regardless of zooms or prime. The trouble is some lens may need different values at different focal lengths and focus distances.
    Fortunately lenses don't tend to vary that wildly and unless you're photographing very close subjects with very large apertures, the DOF tends to hide any inaccuracies.
    So if you're photographing a target chart (do it at the widest aperture with the central AF point) at a close-ish distance and it is sharp, then your stopped down results photographing subjects at a distance shouldn't have enough focus issues to cause problems.
    So your soft results are coming from elsewhere.
    Later when you're comfortable with the basics, then go back to properly fine tune your lenses and you'll find your results may improve even more. Then try tripods, mirror-up, remote trigger, EFC etc. and results may continue to improve from the basics.
    I guess what I'm saying is eliminate your largest source of error first, then work on the finer detail later.

    So what are some of the basics. Your shutter speed and hand holding technique. The 1/FL guide for shutter speed is only a guide. People often recommend 1/2*FL or 1/3*FL for shutter speeds especially with high MP cameras.
    This assumes you're holding the camera and triggering the shutter correctly. Nikonzen reminded you of this earlier in this thread.
    The triggering part I've already talked about, especially if you're utilising the lens VR but also its a soft press and not a stabbing press that I see a lot of people do. On longer lenses, make sure you're supporting the lens with the left hand, actually I recommend you always support the lens with your left hand, elbows tucked in. Just get in the good habit.

    Making sure the camera locks focus on what you want it to focus on (solid green dot confirmation). Which means you may need to find areas of higher contrast within the same plane of focus, AF lock then recompose. Or shift your AF point. If you're letting the camera choose your AF points, you may want to start controlling the AF points yourself. Make sure you're in the right AF mode of course.

    Knowing the effects of aperture and its relationship with DOF. So things will only be considered reasonably sharp within the DOF. DOF also relates to viewing distance which relates to viewing your images at 1:1 or fit to screen or printed to x size and viewed from y distance etc. Know that lens perform differently at various apertures and focal lengths. And you get diminishing returns stopping down further as diffraction effects start to set in beyond a certain point.

    I won't go on cos I've probably already blabbered on too much but I think you get the idea
    Thanks for your detailed reply.

    yea, practise makes perfect.

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