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Thread: Airbus or Boeing?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    I suspect that Airbus will be proven right. Air travel has been increasing exponentially since the 80s. In the near future, you will need big aircraft to carry the huge amount of passengers. They cannot afford to use many smaller aircraft because airports are already quite full and cannot accommodate a large amount of aircraft. So the solution is bigger aircraft that carries more passengers but takes up only one slot at the airport.

    For Boeing's plan to work, the smaller cities will need to increase their small municipial airports to a size capable of handling narrow bodies instead of the current turboprops and business jets. I find it impossible that all the smaller cities would be willing to spend the kind of money to do that. Boeing's so called "small planes" isn't that small at all.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    Both the ultra big aircraft (A380 style) and smaller but ultra long range aircraft (777-200LR, A340-500) has a role to play in the future. Its all a matter of simple demand and supply. Granted there will be growth in airtraffic and many major airports are reaching full capacity, but ultimately, only the popular airlines plying major routes will be able to fill the A380s. As for ultra long range aircraft, due to the very high cost of operating (fuel), the breakeven load factor is very high. Think of it, most major routes in the world are not that far enough to need a ultra long range ac, so I think the demand here is limited. What will really sell i think is aircraft which has the best fuel efficiency and has the best of both worlds (reasonable capacity and range).

  3. #23

    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    it is really upto each individual airlines to mix around with their fleets, can't really judge

    which is right or wrong, if an airline's fleet management did not elect their aircraft type with

    right route most likely they going to end up in a loss

    SIA's fleet combination is quite efficient and effective.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    Each has their own market.....the advantage of A380 is obvious...for highly dense country like China, India or even Japan etc....one A380 will equal to almost 2 747-200.....but for business traveller...less means more and they could afford to pay permium for the direct long haul route to save travelling time and fatigue......besides less crowded plane means privacy

    One advantage of A380 is it can reduces the seat count and increases the space for premium class travelling....while the Boieng is physically not viable to increase it's capacity.....as for the fuel efficientcy and range.....with the advancement of engine technology...somedays later A380 might have the same engine to fly direct city to city like Boeing claimed....so in long run I think A380 has the advantage, but in short term....Boeing still have a chance

  5. #25
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    Beoing? Beo who? Chio mah?

    It will depend on the governments, airlines and airports. SG government will not want to lose our hub status. So Airbus it is!

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    I'm taking the contrary stand to the majority here. Some facts first: the Boeing 777 has a capacity of about 300-350 while the A380 has the capacity of 500-800 depending on configuration.

    Who here likes fewer flights per day or per week? Who here likes to change planes? That is the consequence of the hub model. With larger planes, it cost more to buy, more to run. In order to achieve profit point, you need to have more people per flight. So in that way, you have fewer flights. Eg, say SIA operates one A380 to Melbourne. Now there are 3 flights a day, with it, it would be reduced to once per day in order to fill it up. It means that 1) the passenger have fewer flights; missed it, wait for the next day or too bad if you don't like the time.

    The hub model is also pain for the passenger. Say that you want to fly from Bangkok to say, Seattle. With the hub model, you fly BKK->SGP->LAX->SEA. With the direct light, you could fly BKK->SEA, or at least BKK->LAX->SEA, reducing the stop-over by 1. The reason is simple: again, you need enough traffic for the bigger plane, so need to aggregate the traffic. You fly less direct, and this increase a whole lot of issues like lost luggage, delayed flight, etc.

    In US or EU, it is even less convenient. They have been operating on the hub and spoke model for the past 30-40 years, with major hubs at places like NYC, LAX, DEN, CHI. Say that you are living in Pittsburg and you want to go Sacremento (which is the capital of California, btw). You would have to take a flight to DEN or CHI, change a plane and fly to SEA or LAX and then change to another plane. The direct flight can mean that you fly direct.

    IMO, A380 and 777 will both be in the arsenal of SIA. The reason is that the flights that SIA fly is best suited for both models. Flights in Austrasia will be better with more frequent flights with the 777 while direct flights to hubs like LAX, NYC and CHI will be best by A380. The ironic fact is that SIA can open direct flights to less popular location like Las Vegas, Washington DC in US or Madrid, Barcelona, Edinburgh or Oslo in EU from Singapore. Or a direct flight from SYD to CHI.
    Last edited by Watcher; 12th November 2005 at 08:16 PM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    Boeing receive huge order from Emirates, 42 Boeing 777s + options to purchase 20 more 777s

    Boeing is still in good shape.

    A strong buy for Boeing share, US$67 is still a fair value ~~

    Last time bought at US$49 then sold at US$54.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised
    Who will be proven right in the next decade?
    Airbus believe that the future for air travel will be BIG planes to big cities.
    Beoing believe that the future will be SMALL planes DIRECT to little places.
    Your statement isn't quite accurate. Boeing recently had a change in its outlook. With the official launch of the 747-8, they are back in the large airliner market. Essentially a heavily reworked version of the 747-400, it incorporates many of the innovations for the 787, along with heavy use of composites in its structure, brand new wings and advanced avionics/systems. It is poised to be even larger than the current versions of the 747, with a longer operating range. While not quite the size of the A380, the 747-8 has been stretched to accomodate about 450 passengers, as opposed to the 555 of the A380. Still a very large airplane by any measure.

    Along with the launch of the 747-8, Boeing has quite a competitive product line up for the next decade, covering many different segments of the airliner market. One interesting development of late has been the introduction of ultra long range aircraft like the Airbus A340-500 to operate point to point services which were not possible before. Boeing is banking its hopes on the 777-200LR to compete with the A340-500 and additionally, it will also have a smaller capacity ultra long range aircraft in the form of the 787-9.

    IMO, the current outlook favors Boeing in the long term. They do have a better product line in the works and their long term goals seem to be more achievable than those set by Airbus.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    The 747 is now more than 30 years old. Aviation is a research-intensive and high tech industry. It is amazing to me that the 747 has got no competitor for so very long.

    So, with the A380, we now have some competition in the jumbo jet category. Also, it has given the Europeans some pride as well. If history is anything to go by, and if the A380 model could last even 10 years in production, it would definitely bring in huge profits to Airbus.

    On the other hand, I think Boeing has rested on its laurels for far too long. Ask yourself this question - no new product for the last 30+ years in that category, just some little upgrade here and there.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?


  11. #31
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    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    The 747 is now more than 30 years old. Aviation is a research-intensive and high tech industry. It is amazing to me that the 747 has got no competitor for so very long.
    There are the 757s and 767s. There has been no competition as the aviation industry is very expensive. As for having 30 year old technology, what about military aircraft? How long ago was C130s designed? When did the first F-16 (prototype or actual in use) come out?
    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    So, with the A380, we now have some competition in the jumbo jet category. Also, it has given the Europeans some pride as well. If history is anything to go by, and if the A380 model could last even 10 years in production, it would definitely bring in huge profits to Airbus.
    The big contention is that the company that produced the Airbus is a consortium by the various EU countries. The reason it was created was solely because of nationalistic pride that western Europe did not produce any planes so the Eurofighter and Airbus was thus born.

    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    On the other hand, I think Boeing has rested on its laurels for far too long. Ask yourself this question - no new product for the last 30+ years in that category, just some little upgrade here and there.
    There have been improvements. But there is little incentive commercially for making hugh changes

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Airbus or Beoing?

    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    On the other hand, I think Boeing has rested on its laurels for far too long. Ask yourself this question - no new product for the last 30+ years in that category, just some little upgrade here and there.
    I'm not sure if what you're saying is all that accurate. The 777 has about the same capacity as the earlier 747 versions but with much more efficient technology and higher operating ranges. The 747 has continually been improved upon as subsequent versions were released. From the 747-100 to the current 747-400ER, there have been enough changes to make the first and current models 2 different types of airplanes altogether.

    I don't think Boeing can be characterised as resting on their laurels at all. The "upgrades" you mentioned are hardly "little" and "here and there". Engine thrust has almost doubled and with much increased efficiency. The avionics in the current model are generations from the first model. The wing has undergone an almost complete redesign. Composite materials have been introduced into parts of its structure. Much improved cabin amenities and not to mention a much higher level of passenger comfort in the form of new seats, in flight entertainment, on board wireless internet servers etc...

    The aviation market has undergone dramatic changes since the introduction of the 747 in the 1960s and Boeing has addressed the demands from many different segments of the airline industry. There has been a move for lower capacity airplanes (as compared to the 747), aircraft like the 777-200ER have become a popular choice for first tier operators and its longer 777-300 sister seats almost as many as the 747. With the introduction of the 787 and newly announced 747-8, their product lineup in many ways outshines that of Airbus.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Airbus or Boeing?

    Another huge order for Boeing

    "Qantas Chooses Boeing 787 Dreamliner

    Qantas announced today that the airline has selected the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and plans to buy up to 115 787s for renewal and expansion of its long-haul fleet...."

    Support Boeing

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