View Poll Results: What would u do in this case of indignity?

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  • Swallow your pride, accept the humiliation. Accept the money and shoot for them. Money talks.

    14 48.28%
  • I'd rather die den to shoot for him! I have my pride and artistic integrity to uphold!

    15 51.72%
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Thread: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    I won't ask for too much.....but $3,500-$5,000 a day would be nice. Work for 15 days a month. The next 15 days counting the money.......

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    In my 8 yrs in advertising, I learnt 1 thing, no matter how crap your client's idea or direction is, just make it look good. Thats the least I can do as a art-based creative.

    I guess same applys here.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    will i guess when u need the money,you just have to take the sh*t that been throw at you....

    "Only money can put the food on the table"
    Last edited by chris wong; 9th November 2005 at 02:02 AM.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex
    Not a problem. Give the customer what he wants. I will take the money and shoot for them.
    By the way, what makes you think that your artistic interpretation is the correct one?
    What if they are right and many years later you voluntarily agree that your previous artistic ideas were crap ? You are a Pro, right? Pros do not impose their own idea of art on their customers.
    Hmm.... Maybe I din phase it deep enuff.

    Ok, lets say if the client wants some ultra-childish thing, he know nuts abt everything, something which u swear will never work and ppl will gawk at it (and puke their guts out) at the very mere mention of the product (or shoot, whatever).
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  5. #45

    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    IMHO let him have it that way then. It's his decision. He wants you to shoot crap, just shoot it the way he wants it lor, then when pple puke, nobody can blame you =P Though it might be a good idea if your client didn't acknowledge you in the advertisement

    Haiyah, got money can liao. He's paying you to get a shot that he wants. If he wants your ideas, then charge more lor. At least now you've got a very good idea on the shot to take (sometimes shooting without constraints is -muchmuchmuch- harder than if directions are given.)

    Rgd all the insults, well, I won't be happy about it, but I won't stoop to their level to insult/curse them back. If I do a paid shoot, then i'm technically a professional, and how I carry myself as a photographer (with dignity and integrity) matters alot to me. I have lots of love and respect for this craft, and don't wish to ruin others' impressions of photogs in any way. The most, after I collect the $ and hand over the pics, I don't contact them anymore lor. =)

    Cheers
    QX

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf
    IMHO let him have it that way then. It's his decision. He wants you to shoot crap, just shoot it the way he wants it lor, then when pple puke, nobody can blame you =P Though it might be a good idea if your client didn't acknowledge you in the advertisement

    Haiyah, got money can liao. He's paying you to get a shot that he wants. If he wants your ideas, then charge more lor. At least now you've got a very good idea on the shot to take (sometimes shooting without constraints is -muchmuchmuch- harder than if directions are given.)

    Rgd all the insults, well, I won't be happy about it, but I won't stoop to their level to insult/curse them back. If I do a paid shoot, then i'm technically a professional, and how I carry myself as a photographer (with dignity and integrity) matters alot to me. I have lots of love and respect for this craft, and don't wish to ruin others' impressions of photogs in any way. The most, after I collect the $ and hand over the pics, I don't contact them anymore lor. =)

    Cheers
    QX
    Well said!!!
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  7. #47

    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    At the end of the day "artistic integrity" can't feed your stomach nor pay bills. Also when you are not famous, what is artistic integrity? Its a term reserved for those who have made it.... not referring to photos but to modern art, how many times have we seen some piece of modern art with some fancy name and the commentary is as such "I wanted to express the inner most feelings of the modernism man etc etc etc etc" and what we see is a swirl of paint poured over canvas? Not saying that its not good, just that I can't understand it and dont know if hundreds of thousands are paid for the painting or the fact that you own a piece created by a famous painter...

    Swallowing pride for 10k, I would do it as its money and besides as the saying goes "sticks and stones can break you, but words do nothing to you" Scold me for all you care... but at the end of the day I pocket the money which I earned by honest means. Have seen individuals throw up tantrums and even be abusive in my line of work. But well end of the day, its our job to smile and make sure the job gets done.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    At the end of the day "artistic integrity" can't feed your stomach nor pay bills. Also when you are not famous, what is artistic integrity? Its a term reserved for those who have made it.... not referring to photos but to modern art, how many times have we seen some piece of modern art with some fancy name and the commentary is as such "I wanted to express the inner most feelings of the modernism man etc etc etc etc" and what we see is a swirl of paint poured over canvas? Not saying that its not good, just that I can't understand it and dont know if hundreds of thousands are paid for the painting or the fact that you own a piece created by a famous painter...

    Swallowing pride for 10k, I would do it as its money and besides as the saying goes "sticks and stones can break you, but words do nothing to you" Scold me for all you care... but at the end of the day I pocket the money which I earned by honest means. Have seen individuals throw up tantrums and even be abusive in my line of work. But well end of the day, its our job to smile and make sure the job gets done.
    Add to that, since he know he can get things done HIS WAY and throw his tantrum with you, next time he'll throw another $10K your way. That's ANOTHER $10K IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT!!!

    Work with him 6 times a year and you can rest for 359 days a year. Not a bad deal at all.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  9. #49

    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Scenario
    Someone wants u to shoot for them, a wedding or a product for example. They're rich and they have an attitude towards u. And whatever u shoot, they put it down like was some low-life art and tell YOU to shoot in such and such a way to the point where u no longer recognise the photo as YOUR WORK and a piece of art but rather a piece of nonsensical crap which u swear that a 3yr old kid holding a point-&-shoot disposable camera can do better.

    What would u do?
    how do u end up getting to know this kind of crappy people in the first place

  10. #50

    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    At the end of the day "artistic integrity" can't feed your stomach nor pay bills. Also when you are not famous, what is artistic integrity? Its a term reserved for those who have made it.... not referring to photos but to modern art, how many times have we seen some piece of modern art with some fancy name and the commentary is as such "I wanted to express the inner most feelings of the modernism man etc etc etc etc" and what we see is a swirl of paint poured over canvas? Not saying that its not good, just that I can't understand it and dont know if hundreds of thousands are paid for the painting or the fact that you own a piece created by a famous painter...

    Swallowing pride for 10k, I would do it as its money and besides as the saying goes "sticks and stones can break you, but words do nothing to you" Scold me for all you care... but at the end of the day I pocket the money which I earned by honest means. Have seen individuals throw up tantrums and even be abusive in my line of work. But well end of the day, its our job to smile and make sure the job gets done.

    Generally true, but there are exceptions, as always.

    I do know of at least two photographers who REALLY stuck to "artistic integrity". One is relatively famous. At least his images are collected by museums. The other is worse off. It is felt that he probably will become famous after he died!

    But both of these photographers paid the price for their artistic integrity. The first one is now booted out of his house and had to keep his darkroom things in boxes. He spends his time now catching up with all his writing. The other sleeps in his van.

    I know of others who also stuck to their artistic integrity. They are better off, but able to survive by good advertisement, selling prints, and conducting workshops.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    I'll just do it. Worst thing is only that you cant put it in your portfoilio. Maybe you can also put in the contract that the client must not disclose who the photographer was

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    If the client wants to put my name on the work, he'll have to get my consent first ( my name is my copyright ). I'll politely decline.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  13. #53

    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Hehe or else you'll lose future jobs =D
    "Walao, yqt shot this! Must cancel my pending job with him!"


  14. #54
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf
    Hehe or else you'll lose future jobs =D
    "Walao, yqt shot this! Must cancel my pending job with him!"

    Yarlor. But if he/she is comfirm using me 6 times a year at 10K I'll gladly let him use my company name and logo.............................















    ..............................after that, go and register another company for my other clients/jobs
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by user111
    how do u end up getting to know this kind of crappy people in the first place
    Nah... Not a personal encounter.

    The other day I was wondering abt the words "Artists live & die poor and live a rich life after their deaths" thus.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    The other day I was wondering abt the words "Artists live & die poor and live a rich life after their deaths"
    So far which one has come back from hell and tell us that?

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Between Artistic Integrity & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Hmm.... Maybe I din phase it deep enuff.

    Ok, lets say if the client wants some ultra-childish thing, he know nuts abt everything, something which u swear will never work and ppl will gawk at it (and puke their guts out) at the very mere mention of the product (or shoot, whatever).
    well, this is called fresh idea.
    what is wrong with childish?
    look at Japan they use [childish] very well in marketing
    doreamon, hellokitty?, lots of cutie pie stuff sell, sell, sell.
    it is a billion $ [childish] marketing concept here

    do not be closed to fresh ideas.
    do not dismiss the client as "know nuts abt everything"

    long ago in the 1960s
    the bosses of a record company (was it Decca or some other?)
    laughed and rejected the Beatles after an audition
    because the recording company bosses
    thought the Beatles' music cannot sell
    maybe they thought it was childish.......

    well, many hundreds of millions of records later, the recording company bosses lived to regret writing people off like that and rejecting fresh ideas

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