What is photography?

[hoclim]

I have recently bought myself a D50 which is a 'Entry Level' Camera... I just cant help but ask myself the following questions

1) 'expensive equipment take better pictures'...is that so...? I got the impression that this is the case... Whenever I go to a shop to ask about cheaper equipement and lens, the people seems to give me the impression that I can do little if I just get a G lens or something cheap...and when I get my first external flash SB 600, the person said..'Dun expect to do much or take as good pic as a SB 800'...It makes me feel that photography is about buying expensive equipment and no longer about creativity and presenting a person's unique perspective...... I believe that manufacturere are capitalising on this perception of 'expensive equipment take better pictures' and charging extremely high price for equipments. And where is the true spirit of photography?

2) If point 1 is true than issit photography a rich man's hobby?

3) Why is everyone paying thousands of dollars for a few pieces of glass? is it really worth that much? I mean, a VR lens cost $3000plus, it can buy me top of the line IT products like the best desktop, the best entertainment system.... If you argue that camera manufacturer need years of research, extensive cost and extreme precision to come up with the lens or body, then doesnt the manufacturer of sophisticated IT products require such research, cost and time? Furthermore, should "Economies of scale' set in? I mean, havent they Nikon or Canon, etc...cover their research cost...and until this day still pass it on to the consumer?

Just my 2 cent worth.......

[bumortic]

just make full use of your stuff. i dont even have a VR lense or even a speedlight.. keeping quiet and fronting with your pics is much better than complaining like this.. sorry if any of my words offend you.

bum

[bumortic]

and in fact please look at our thread.. we'r all using cameras which dont even hit the $150 mark.. hahaha http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=141943

[zaren]

Originally Posted by hoclim I have recently bought myself a D50 which is a 'Entry Level' Camera... I just cant help but ask myself the following questions 1) 'expensive equipment take better pictures'...is that so...? I got the impression that this is the case... Whenever I go to a shop to ask about cheaper equipement and lens, the people seems to give me the impression that I can do little if I just get a G lens or something cheap...and when I get my first external flash SB 600, the person said..'Dun expect to do much or take as good pic as a SB 800'...It makes me feel that photography is about buying expensive equipment and no longer about creativity and presenting a person's unique perspective...... I believe that manufacturere are capitalising on this perception of 'expensive equipment take better pictures' and charging extremely high price for equipments. And where is the true spirit of photography? 2) If point 1 is true than issit photography a rich man's hobby? 3) Why is everyone paying thousands of dollars for a few pieces of glass? is it really worth that much? I mean, a VR lens cost $3000plus, it can buy me top of the line IT products like the best desktop, the best entertainment system.... If you argue that camera manufacturer need years of research, extensive cost and extreme precision to come up with the lens or body, then doesnt the manufacturer of sophisticated IT products require such research, cost and time? Furthermore, should "Economies of scale' set in? I mean, havent they Nikon or Canon, etc...cover their research cost...and until this day still pass it on to the consumer? Just my 2 cent worth.......

this is a well travelled road.....just do a search on previous threads about this issue.

[+evenstar]

Originally Posted by hoclim Furthermore, should "Economies of scale' set in? I mean, havent they Nikon or Canon, etc...cover their research cost...and until this day still pass it on to the consumer?

OT: Can see that you're an Econs student..

Don't forget that they're always having new research, coming out with new products, and their patents can last for 10-20 years ?

[hoclim]

New reasearch and new advertisment with top models and actresses

[Astin]

U can have the same satisfaction with a cheapo 50mm lens vs a $3k VR lens, seriously.

[smallaperture]

In photography, you have the choice:
1 new sophisticated dSLR and expensive pro glass and other accessories
2 used simple film body and 50mmF1.8 lens and you can produce award winning shots.

Shops and many CSers here tend to promote "cool" stuff".

I suggest you read Ken Rockwell site - he promotes sensible equipment for amateurs, not top of the range expensive stuff that you do not need at all.

[hoclim]

I totally agrees with the fact that good photgraphy doesnt require expensive equipments...

[ob1canob]

Have you ever read from any good photography books emphasizing only on using expensive lenses and equipments to take better pictures than about techniques, framing, perseverance and etc to improve your photo shots? Buying an expensive car won't make you a better driver will it?

[fatjp]

Originally Posted by hoclim I have recently bought myself a D50 which is a 'Entry Level' Camera... I just cant help but ask myself the following questions 1) 'expensive equipment take better pictures'...is that so...? I got the impression that this is the case... Whenever I go to a shop to ask about cheaper equipement and lens, the people seems to give me the impression that I can do little if I just get a G lens or something cheap...and when I get my first external flash SB 600, the person said..'Dun expect to do much or take as good pic as a SB 800'...It makes me feel that photography is about buying expensive equipment and no longer about creativity and presenting a person's unique perspective...... I believe that manufacturere are capitalising on this perception of 'expensive equipment take better pictures' and charging extremely high price for equipments. And where is the true spirit of photography? 2) If point 1 is true than issit photography a rich man's hobby? 3) Why is everyone paying thousands of dollars for a few pieces of glass? is it really worth that much? I mean, a VR lens cost $3000plus, it can buy me top of the line IT products like the best desktop, the best entertainment system.... If you argue that camera manufacturer need years of research, extensive cost and extreme precision to come up with the lens or body, then doesnt the manufacturer of sophisticated IT products require such research, cost and time? Furthermore, should "Economies of scale' set in? I mean, havent they Nikon or Canon, etc...cover their research cost...and until this day still pass it on to the consumer? Just my 2 cent worth.......

Hi to a fellow D50 user.

1)The sales person maybe trying to sell his stuff. Or you had visited some not so good shop, which they themself dont know anything about photography.

3) Technology need a price to pay. Good things == Expensive. Distortion level, the optic

Jus shot is the spirt we must have.

[kensh09]

Originally Posted by hoclim I have recently bought myself a D50 which is a 'Entry Level' Camera... I just cant help but ask myself the following questions 1) 'expensive equipment take better pictures'...is that so...? I got the impression that this is the case... Whenever I go to a shop to ask about cheaper equipement and lens, the people seems to give me the impression that I can do little if I just get a G lens or something cheap...and when I get my first external flash SB 600, the person said..'Dun expect to do much or take as good pic as a SB 800'...It makes me feel that photography is about buying expensive equipment and no longer about creativity and presenting a person's unique perspective...... I believe that manufacturere are capitalising on this perception of 'expensive equipment take better pictures' and charging extremely high price for equipments. And where is the true spirit of photography? 2) If point 1 is true than issit photography a rich man's hobby? 3) Why is everyone paying thousands of dollars for a few pieces of glass? is it really worth that much? I mean, a VR lens cost $3000plus, it can buy me top of the line IT products like the best desktop, the best entertainment system.... If you argue that camera manufacturer need years of research, extensive cost and extreme precision to come up with the lens or body, then doesnt the manufacturer of sophisticated IT products require such research, cost and time? Furthermore, should "Economies of scale' set in? I mean, havent they Nikon or Canon, etc...cover their research cost...and until this day still pass it on to the consumer? Just my 2 cent worth.......

1)It is common sense that a salesman will push u the more exp stuff so that he can earn more. Just do a research on the equipment you are buying and your own budget then you will know what you realli need. SB800 is definitely more powerful than SB800 but ask yourself do you really need it?

2)I nvr think photography is a rich man hobby. Btw how old and what work are you doing or are you still a student. My friends all like to mod their cars and a simple sound system or I.C.E in their car already cost >5k, some of them have over 10K sound system. What about moding engine,suspension, exhaust etc? They cost a lot more also. Is that consider a millionaire hobby then?

3)Manufacture place such a premium price for their top end glass and its up to ppl to want to buy or not. They are not forcing any1 to buy. U shld blame yourself for making your pocket empty if you cant resist the temptation. Economies of scale doesnt really works in all aspects of this modern world. What scale can there be when a certain product can reach an economies of scale but manufacturer keep on investing $ in new product. So you want economies of scale, go and buy those old product. They shld cost u cheaper than when they are 1st launch. Remember, business man open shop is to make $, that is always the top priorty.

1 more thing you shld know is that those high end glasses are meant for professional use. Professional are able to cover back their investing cost after doing a few projects. Some of them could even cover all the cost after doing 1 project only! So ask yourself how long you need to cover back all your investment. Then you will know the answer whether these equipments are worth the value or not.

[Astin]

Everyone should learn the difference between "wants" and "needs", then he would live happily thereafter.

[swhyge]

Originally Posted by Astin Everyone should learn the difference between "wants" and "needs", then he would live happily thereafter.

But I constantly want my needs; and wants and needs seems to be the complementary quantum states in my mind. Life is so difficult to live ever after! How about you, seriously??

[student]

Originally Posted by swhyge But I constantly want my needs; and wants and needs seems to be the complementary quantum states in my mind. Life is so difficult to live ever after! How about you, seriously??

I can meet my needs - an "ordinary" car to ferry me from A ->B

But I cannot meet my wants - BMW M3

Therefore I do not think about my wants.

My wants do not bug me because I can't have them anyway!

And the problem does not exist.

Peace! And tranquility.............

[Astin]

Originally Posted by swhyge But I constantly want my needs; and wants and needs seems to be the complementary quantum states in my mind. Life is so difficult to live ever after! How about you, seriously??

When I was poor I also had many wants, but no choice, closed my eyes and every night went to bed dreaming. After working hard for many years, now I can afford those things I want. (well almost, I still want a full head of hair but money cannot buy)

[Stefen]

most of us will never realise the full potential of our own equipment, as these cameras nowadays are so advanced they can handle most requirements; that is if we read the instructional manuals enough.

having said that, the time when you need to upgrade your equipment is when your technique has reached a level when your current gear is unable to satisfy you. i.e more frames per second, sharper focus on zooms, or even more creative control. We can leave that to the pros.

[waileong]

1. Yes, but only if you know how to use the expensive equipment. Modern entry-level cameras are so good nowadays that it should not make a difference to the amateur.

2. No relationship. Everyone can have the same hobby, it depends on how much you want to spend, that's all. Just like jogging or basketball, you can run or play basketball with cheap shoes or with the latest/greatest expensive Nikes, but it's still jogging or basketball that's the hobby, the shoes don't change the hobby, unless collecting shoes becomes the hobby.

3. They are expensive because they are better in all ways. At $3k for a lens and more, how many lenses do you expect them to sell? How much economies of scale do you expect them to get? And economics terms, they want to get as much consumer surplus as they can-- why would they want to lower prices unless they have to. Bear in mind too that the resale value of a $3k lens is much superior and more stable than the resale value of a $3k computer or a $50k car...

Wai Leong
===

Originally Posted by hoclim I have recently bought myself a D50 which is a 'Entry Level' Camera... I just cant help but ask myself the following questions 1) 'expensive equipment take better pictures'...is that so...? I got the impression that this is the case... Whenever I go to a shop to ask about cheaper equipement and lens, the people seems to give me the impression that I can do little if I just get a G lens or something cheap...and when I get my first external flash SB 600, the person said..'Dun expect to do much or take as good pic as a SB 800'...It makes me feel that photography is about buying expensive equipment and no longer about creativity and presenting a person's unique perspective...... I believe that manufacturere are capitalising on this perception of 'expensive equipment take better pictures' and charging extremely high price for equipments. And where is the true spirit of photography? 2) If point 1 is true than issit photography a rich man's hobby? 3) Why is everyone paying thousands of dollars for a few pieces of glass? is it really worth that much? I mean, a VR lens cost $3000plus, it can buy me top of the line IT products like the best desktop, the best entertainment system.... If you argue that camera manufacturer need years of research, extensive cost and extreme precision to come up with the lens or body, then doesnt the manufacturer of sophisticated IT products require such research, cost and time? Furthermore, should "Economies of scale' set in? I mean, havent they Nikon or Canon, etc...cover their research cost...and until this day still pass it on to the consumer? Just my 2 cent worth.......

[ratboy]

i just like to point out that you are comparing higher end ( VR lens $3000 plus )
with consumer entertainment system < ==== if you can get it at $3000

The real high end entertainment systems can range up to $300K and higher

[shinken]

Photo - The word has its origins from the word "light"
graphy - a form of record which originated from the word graphic, which is has its meaning in drawing pictures.

Some romantics thus see photography as "painting/drawing with light". Other more scientifically inclined see it as "recording visual images with the use of light".

That's it. Not meant to be an etymology lesson. but what photography is all about. The latest most updated equipment merely allows you to have more conveniences to do things in an easier way. And conveniences come with a price. Not just photography, but all other aspects of this material civilisation. If you can live without these conveniences, you can record just a great image the way an expensive equipment could.

Way before through-the-lens metering, autofocus, image sensors and other electronic what nots, photographers of the past had already been recording images in such inspiring way that many photographers of today still find hard to match despite equipped by the conveniences of modern technology.

Rich man's hobby? Really depends on how you look at it. The rich can afford more conveniences that much is true. But it wouldn't do a lot of good if they are unaware of how to exploit these conveniences. Reverse holds true for the poor man.

That's the ideal scenario of course. Most people in reality choose to believe their ability to produce images are handicapped by the level of convenience they can afford. And many times it's true. When it is true, these people already know what money can buy and how to use it.