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Thread: Do I need a kit lens in this scenario? And also some Canon 70D questions.

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    Default Do I need a kit lens in this scenario? And also some Canon 70D questions.

    I've been watching Casey Neistat for a few months now, and developed an interest in cinematography. Recently, I began to toy with the idea of being a content producer instead of just being a consumer. This led to me trying to learn about iso, F-stop values/ aperture sizes, shutter speed, what kind of lightings are there etc, and am reading "Bryan Peterson - Understanding Exposure " now. All this had me itching to get a camera and try it out in real life, and my short-term goal is to shoot a short film, some vlogs and pretty photos in Japan during the sakura season next year.

    The camera and lenses I've picked out are:

    Body : Canon EOS 70D
    Lens 1 : Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (kit lens)
    Lens 2 : Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
    Lens 3 : Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM

    I also plan to get:

    Tripod : Joby GorillaPod Focus with Ballhead X
    Battery : Canon / 3rd party
    Microphone : Rode Videomic Pro

    In this situation, I'm not sure if I really need to spend on the 18-135mm kit lens if I'll already be getting the 50mm and 10-18mm lenses. For wide shots, I can use the 10-18mm, and the 50mm for the others. From what I know, the only thing the kit lens is useful for is the zoom function, but I could simply get near to the subject. This is where I need your help, where or how else can I use this kit lens to justify spending money on it? Or is this like comparing apples to oranges, seeing as the lenses are for different purposes?



    I also have some other questions not involving lenses:

    How many minutes of 1080p 24fps footage can I get on a single, fully charged battery?
    What are your experiences with 3rd party batteries and original Canon batteries?
    How large will a 5 minute 1080p 24fps video be (do I need a 32gb or 64gb card)?
    What memory card brand would you recommend?
    Will I be able to benefit from a class 10 card even though I will not be shooting in 4k resolution?
    What tripods would you recommend I get?



    Thank you for bearing with me so far. As you can tell by now, I'm heavily inspired by Mr. Neistat. This will be my first decent camera, as well as quite a significant purchase for a student. I'm trying to do all the research I can before actually making the purchase, and I could not find clear answers for some of these questions. Figured that it would be faster to get the answers from the horse's mouth. Hope to hear from you guys soon!
    Last edited by SMLeir; 28th October 2015 at 10:54 PM.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I need a kit lens in this scenario? And also some Canon 70D questions.

    Welcome to ClubSNAP

    A few answers, others will surely give more.
    1) Zoom of a lens (thus, the resulting focal length used) is different than walking towards your subject. The perspective and the impact on the scene (some called it 'compression') is completely different for different focal length. a simply test you can try: in an open area with some background use any foreground object and shot with different focal length, but keep the size of the foreground object the same within the frame. Observe what happens.
    2) [So far for Canon;] Third party batteries do the same job: providing power. Don't get fooled by fancy capacity figures. In the end, it's roughly the same capacity or slightly less. (There was a case for a different camera brand where the 3rd party battery really had a larger capacity.)
    3) Go for branded memory cards. SanDisk is one of them. Don't try to save on such small items, it kicks back when the card dies in the wrong moment. (Although, there isn't any 'right' moment for it to die ..)
    4) Go for highest class you can afford. You don't want to find out that your camera stops recording due to lower speed class once you are out there shooting.
    5) For tripods, we have articles here and here. Read up first. Also keep in mind, taking videos where you might move the camera (e.g. pan, follow the subject) is different than fixing the cam. That's why there are pan heads and ball heads. I guess pan heads would be more usable for your purpose.
    Last edited by Octarine; 29th October 2015 at 09:58 AM.
    EOS

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    Default Re: Do I need a kit lens in this scenario? And also some Canon 70D questions.

    Glad to see another Casey Neistat fan! I am by no means a professional, just here a give my 2 cents on your question!

    Firstly, I shall direct you to Casey Neistat's video, which I believe you should've seen.
    Casey Neistat's Guide to Filmmaking - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLSUrTxquyE
    I want to stress, it's really not about the gear. Like what you've said, you're a student, so I believe you're on a budget and spending a lot of money on these camera gear not knowing if you'll enjoy being a video producer will be pretty much a waste. You can easily create videos from your smart phone or a simple point and shoot camera. But of course if you have the budget and want to kick it up a notch, then I'll say go for something better. This does not mean your videos will be better of course, you're only limited by your own imagination.

    Secondly, gear (if you choose to get). I know you're going for almost the same thing as what he uses. But it's going to cost you loads for something you can achieve with lesser. Considering that he produces videos watched by millions of people, he does want to put out quality videos for people to enjoy. Since you're starting out, do you really need it all?

    Avg 2nd hand prices of equipment on clubsnap: (Definitely more if you buy new)

    $1000 - Body : Canon EOS 70D
    $350 - Lens 1 : Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (kit lens)
    $100 - Lens 2 : Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
    $350 - Lens 3 : Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM

    I also plan to get:

    $150 - Tripod : Joby GorillaPod Focus with Ballhead X
    $50 - Battery : Canon / 3rd party
    $150 - Microphone : Rode Videomic Pro

    Total: $2150 (JUST AN ESTIMATE)

    You still have to buy memory cards since you'll be taking video, the memory cards will be used up quite fast. Unless you're going to being hard drive for your trip, you'll need a lot of it and the cost will add up for a sufficiently fast memory card..
    And then also a camera bag to hold all these stuff.

    That's a lot of money to spend just for being interested in cinematography isn't it?

    Thirdly, my suggestion.
    $1000 - Body : Canon EOS 70D
    $400-$500 - Change to Canon 650D, 700D or 750D, this is sufficient for video as it has continuous autofocus as well. Or you can also consider mirrorless though battery life may suck badly for video. Saves a bit of weight from the 70D as well

    $350 - Lens 1 : Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (kit lens)
    - I think this is ok for vlogging if you do not require super wide angle, definitely more versatile. You can vlog when you use it at 18mm. I suggest you get this first. Get it as a kit with the body, either second hand or new, to save some money. Then see whether you require really the wideness at 10mm. Because you are going to shoot cherry blossoms as well which means photos and so it's better to have the range of focal lengths. If you do not need such a long range of distances, you should consider the other kit lens as well 18-55mm..

    $100 - Lens 2 : Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
    - Great value lens. But do you need it? 50mm on a crop sensor body is 75mm effectively which is quite "zoomed in". Unless you're taking portraiture, the lens is a bit limiting in situations. Considering it does not have IS as well, you would need a tripod to use it effectively.

    $350 - Lens 3 : Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM
    - Get the kit lens before this to know if you need the extra wide angle at 10mm

    I also plan to get:

    $150 - Tripod : Joby GorillaPod Focus with Bullhead X
    - This is alright to act as a "monopod" for the camera but you kinda need to be strong to hold it out with one arm with the camera and lens on it. Though it may seem like an easy feat for casey neistat, it's definitely not light.

    $50 - Battery : Canon / 3rd party
    $150 - Microphone : Rode Videomic Pro
    - Do you need such high end microphone equipment? You can go with cheaper shotgun microphones.. Just have a google search, I believe you can get decent ones for $50. Check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecs0GWaPtto

    Lastly, just ask yourself, do you really need all this gear? Can you do the same/more with less? If your budget is v high, then go for it buy all that you've planned to. If not, I think you can evaluate and use your imagination to work with the gear you have (the cheaper gear) which can allow you to improve and know what you need/ or are lacking in instead of buying all at one shot! Sorry for the long reply, and hope I didn't offend you in anyway, just my 2 cents!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do I need a kit lens in this scenario? And also some Canon 70D questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Welcome to ClubSNAP

    A few answers, others will surely give more.
    1) Zoom of a lens (thus, the resulting focal length used) is different than walking towards your subject. The perspective and the impact on the scene (some called it 'compression') is completely different for different focal length. a simply test you can try: in an open area with some background use any foreground object and shot with different focal length, but keep the size of the foreground object the same within the frame. Observe what happens.
    2) [So far for Canon;] Third party batteries do the same job: providing power. Don't get fooled by fancy capacity figures. In the end, it's roughly the same capacity or slightly less. (There was a case for a different camera brand where the 3rd party battery really had a larger capacity.)
    3) Go for branded memory cards. SanDisk is one of them. Don't try to save on such small items, it kicks back when the card dies in the wrong moment. (Although, there isn't any 'right' moment for it to die ..)
    4) Go for highest class you can afford. You don't want to find out that your camera stops recording due to lower speed class once you are out there shooting.
    5) For tripods, we have articles here and here. Read up first. Also keep in mind, taking videos where you might move the camera (e.g. pan, follow the subject) is different than fixing the cam. That's why there are pan heads and ball heads. I guess pan heads would be more usable for your purpose.
    Thanks for replying! It was really informative and the comment about the different focal length certainly gave me something to think about

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Do I need a kit lens in this scenario? And also some Canon 70D questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    Glad to see another Casey Neistat fan! I am by no means a professional, just here a give my 2 cents on your question!

    Firstly, I shall direct you to Casey Neistat's video, which I believe you should've seen.
    Casey Neistat's Guide to Filmmaking
    I want to stress, it's really not about the gear. Like what you've said, you're a student, so I believe you're on a budget and spending a lot of money on these camera gear not knowing if you'll enjoy being a video producer will be pretty much a waste. You can easily create videos from your smart phone or a simple point and shoot camera. But of course if you have the budget and want to kick it up a notch, then I'll say go for something better. This does not mean your videos will be better of course, you're only limited by your own imagination.

    Secondly, gear (if you choose to get). I know you're going for almost the same thing as what he uses. But it's going to cost you loads for something you can achieve with lesser. Considering that he produces videos watched by millions of people, he does want to put out quality videos for people to enjoy. Since you're starting out, do you really need it all?

    Avg 2nd hand prices of equipment on clubsnap: (Definitely more if you buy new)

    $1000 - Body : Canon EOS 70D
    $350 - Lens 1 : Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (kit lens)
    $100 - Lens 2 : Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
    $350 - Lens 3 : Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM

    I also plan to get:

    $150 - Tripod : Joby GorillaPod Focus with Ballhead X
    $50 - Battery : Canon / 3rd party
    $150 - Microphone : Rode Videomic Pro

    Total: $2150 (JUST AN ESTIMATE)

    You still have to buy memory cards since you'll be taking video, the memory cards will be used up quite fast. Unless you're going to being hard drive for your trip, you'll need a lot of it and the cost will add up for a sufficiently fast memory card..
    And then also a camera bag to hold all these stuff.

    That's a lot of money to spend just for being interested in cinematography isn't it?

    Thirdly, my suggestion.
    $1000 - Body : Canon EOS 70D
    $400-$500 - Change to Canon 650D, 700D or 750D, this is sufficient for video as it has continuous autofocus as well. Or you can also consider mirrorless though battery life may suck badly for video. Saves a bit of weight from the 70D as well

    $350 - Lens 1 : Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (kit lens)
    - I think this is ok for vlogging if you do not require super wide angle, definitely more versatile. You can vlog when you use it at 18mm. I suggest you get this first. Get it as a kit with the body, either second hand or new, to save some money. Then see whether you require really the wideness at 10mm. Because you are going to shoot cherry blossoms as well which means photos and so it's better to have the range of focal lengths. If you do not need such a long range of distances, you should consider the other kit lens as well 18-55mm..

    $100 - Lens 2 : Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
    - Great value lens. But do you need it? 50mm on a crop sensor body is 75mm effectively which is quite "zoomed in". Unless you're taking portraiture, the lens is a bit limiting in situations. Considering it does not have IS as well, you would need a tripod to use it effectively.

    $350 - Lens 3 : Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM
    - Get the kit lens before this to know if you need the extra wide angle at 10mm

    I also plan to get:

    $150 - Tripod : Joby GorillaPod Focus with Bullhead X
    - This is alright to act as a "monopod" for the camera but you kinda need to be strong to hold it out with one arm with the camera and lens on it. Though it may seem like an easy feat for casey neistat, it's definitely not light.

    $50 - Battery : Canon / 3rd party
    $150 - Microphone : Rode Videomic Pro
    - Do you need such high end microphone equipment? You can go with cheaper shotgun microphones.. Just have a google search, I believe you can get decent ones for $50. Check out this video

    Lastly, just ask yourself, do you really need all this gear? Can you do the same/more with less? If your budget is v high, then go for it buy all that you've planned to. If not, I think you can evaluate and use your imagination to work with the gear you have (the cheaper gear) which can allow you to improve and know what you need/ or are lacking in instead of buying all at one shot! Sorry for the long reply, and hope I didn't offend you in anyway, just my 2 cents!
    Thanks for replying! No offence taken, I enjoy feedback be it good or bad I admit that I got too caught up with all this gear and forgot that I'm still a beginner who doesn't even have experience with this camera yet. However, I'm splurging a little on the mic because from what I read, good audio is really important. I think I will just get the kit lens first, play around with it before actually thinking of getting any new lenses!

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