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Thread: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

  1. #1

    Default Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    Of late, there have been more and more cheapo clients looking for bargain basement photographers. I have gotten jobs from there in the past (not recently), and I too feel the scourge of these bottom feeders.

    But is all this vitriol really constructive? And more importantly, what does it say about photographers, and Clubsnap, as a group?

    I know, I get tired of posting the same old 'constructive statements' again and again. It gets tiring because there are always new ones, and frankly they are ALLOWED by the rules of the forum. But if you have nothing useful to add, and just want to vent, don't do it on their threads (unless I'm mistaken, that is frowned upon by the moderator-Gods).

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1565630

  2. #2
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    correction,
    there are always tons of cheapo clients posting threads of seeking bottom feeders, since day one of ClubSNAP, just that many and many photographers get less and less tolerance towards such craps nowadays.

    previously, we allowed people posting threads for seeking members providing photography services, with or without stating reimbursement, so beside those assignments with genuine interest, we have also seen countless threads of event companies come there to look for free event photographers, brides-to-be come here to look for free wedding photographers, HDB aunties come here to look for free children birthday party photographers, all in the name of portfolio building. And also don't forget there also used to be many XMM models looking for free photographers for their 21st birthday parties, couple dating photos, blogshop business etc.
    you name it, we have seen it.

    only the recent years, our admins and mods team decided to tighten up the rules in service wanted section, all threads must state clear the reimbursement, TFCD term only good for personal usage, seeking volunteer photographers for charity cause need to seek consent from our Admins prior posting thread etc.

    So now, there is only a small numbers of threads get to see the daylight in the service wanted section, but some might slip thru our fingers since we can't monitor the forum 24/7, we seek members' help to report any thread does not comply with the rules.

    as for stating reimbursement, we can't tell everyone here how much is a fair rate, or so call market rate, nobody can. we just leave it for the photographers to decide.

    and as for members posting "feedback" on some of the threads, which is not allowed, if members wish to vent, koptiam is the place.

    and please be reminded if anyone wish to air their buay song on such matters in KPT threads, do not make it personal, and do not bring anyone parents or family members in to the picture.

    thank you for your cooperation.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Francis View Post
    Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?
    Us being bitter isn't going to achieve much.

    Better spend time and energy in how we can transcend beyond the $20 an hour jobs.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    wouldn't it be easier if admin takes away the Photography Wanted section altogether or have it as a moderated thread, one which has to be vetted before the ad goes up.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfoo View Post
    wouldn't it be easier if admin takes away the Photography Wanted section altogether or have it as a moderated thread, one which has to be vetted before the ad goes up.
    It IS vetted - see Catchlights post above.

    Like he said, the mods can police ads that do not state price, but cannot reasonably be expected to determine a fair price and enforce it. No matter how low the pay, there always seem to be takers. I avoid cheap clients because they tend to 'cost' me the most.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    only the recent years, our admins and mods team decided to tighten up the rules in service wanted section, all threads must state clear the reimbursement, TFCD term only good for personal usage, seeking volunteer photographers for charity cause need to seek consent from our Admins prior posting thread etc..
    what i mean is ads to be vetted before it is allowed to be posted. currently i believe they are not vetted and require reporting by members if they do not follow guidelines.

  7. #7

    Default

    Though I really frown upon cheapo clients, I have to say here that its an open free market we living in. No one can dictate the market price.

    No such thing as fixed market price.

    I tell u, there will be photographers who even willing to work for free. Just pay for their transport and meals, they will work for u.

    So who are we to say that no one should work for free? Manpower minister? Even minister also cannot tell people not to work for free

  8. #8

    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    Thank you to the good, intelligence and cheap digital camera.

    No more do we need to limit to the number of rolls of film we need to prepare.

    Just shoot and edit and you will find a good one!

    Sigh!!!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    Pple like to shoot for free, it is their business.

    pple get what they pay for, it is their problem.

    Why meddle with free market mechanism?

    Anyway, it's your forum, your say.

    CS is not so funz anymore for someone who likes photography but not living off it.


    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    correction,
    there are always tons of cheapo clients posting threads of seeking bottom feeders, since day one of ClubSNAP, just that many and many photographers get less and less tolerance towards such craps nowadays.

    previously, we allowed people posting threads for seeking members providing photography services, with or without stating reimbursement, so beside those assignments with genuine interest, we have also seen countless threads of event companies come there to look for free event photographers, brides-to-be come here to look for free wedding photographers, HDB aunties come here to look for free children birthday party photographers, all in the name of portfolio building. And also don't forget there also used to be many XMM models looking for free photographers for their 21st birthday parties, couple dating photos, blogshop business etc.
    you name it, we have seen it.

    only the recent years, our admins and mods team decided to tighten up the rules in service wanted section, all threads must state clear the reimbursement, TFCD term only good for personal usage, seeking volunteer photographers for charity cause need to seek consent from our Admins prior posting thread etc.

    So now, there is only a small numbers of threads get to see the daylight in the service wanted section, but some might slip thru our fingers since we can't monitor the forum 24/7, we seek members' help to report any thread does not comply with the rules.

    as for stating reimbursement, we can't tell everyone here how much is a fair rate, or so call market rate, nobody can. we just leave it for the photographers to decide.

    and as for members posting "feedback" on some of the threads, which is not allowed, if members wish to vent, koptiam is the place.

    and please be reminded if anyone wish to air their buay song on such matters in KPT threads, do not make it personal, and do not bring anyone parents or family members in to the picture.

    thank you for your cooperation.

  10. #10
    Member
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    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    In fact free market can actually help to promote better photography.

    The good ones will remain. There will always be demand of good photographers. It's the mediocre ones that will suffer. Charging for something not worth the result.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    I am a professional automotive upholsterer. I used to be bothered by undercutting FT (Mexican) folks swooping in and setting up shops that buzzed because they were very good. But soon I realized that it didn't matter one iota. I still had more work than I could and can do. So you see it is a stupid mind f-ck to begin with. Don't fall into such shallow thinking about things scoffing at things. Don't begrudge the birds the opportunity of a meal. It just doesn't matter in the grand scope of things. What is is what will be.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is the bitterness on Photographer Wanted thread constructive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    I am a professional automotive upholsterer. I used to be bothered by undercutting FT (Mexican) folks swooping in and setting up shops that buzzed because they were very good. But soon I realized that it didn't matter one iota. I still had more work than I could and can do. So you see it is a stupid mind f-ck to begin with. Don't fall into such shallow thinking about things scoffing at things. Don't begrudge the birds the opportunity of a meal. It just doesn't matter in the grand scope of things. What is is what will be.
    Agree with you wholeheartedly.

    "What is is what will be"

    I have a proper income.

    I do it for the community as it is my passion and at my time.

    I used to meet paid photographers at events and they actually appreciate my presence. We become friends. After most of the shoot, we normally gather for a coffee break and share. They like to show me their new gears and they always allow me to try.

    I enjoy their company.

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