Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: Copyright issue questions

  1. #1
    Account Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jurong West
    Posts
    138

    Exclamation Copyright issue questions

    Lets say I shoot some photos of important landmarks. Eiffel tower, Taj Mahal, Leaning tower of Pizza... I mean Pisa...

    And I wanna sell the photos as stock photos, mouse pads, umbrellas etc... Any copyright issues?

    Lets say I wanna put on the web for a tour agency? Any issues too?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    I've read that stock agencies would not accept images of Eiffel Tower at night because the copyrights belonged to the lighting designer. Many of the historical buildings in U.K. are out of bound too because their national trust owns the copyrights. There are restrictions on the Uluru the most famous landmark of Australia by the aboriginal bodies.

    When you shoot objects stay away from popular brands with distinct designs. Clone out, blur or hide logos and try to keep products generic.

    Good luck.

  3. #3
    Account Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jurong West
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    When you shoot objects stay away from popular brands with distinct designs. Clone out, blur or hide logos and try to keep products generic.

    Good luck.
    How about shooting other countries for use in Tour Guides or for Tour Agencies...?

    Do I need permit from their Government or tourism board ? ? ?

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    East of Singapore
    Posts
    1,750

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    I've shot for a tour agency some time back. As the images to be shot were instructed by them, I include in my invoice, " copyrights to use the images, if there is a need, are to be obtain by the image user " As a CSer once said, it's "cover as* time"
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Quote Originally Posted by arampan
    How about shooting other countries for use in Tour Guides or for Tour Agencies...?

    Do I need permit from their Government or tourism board ? ? ?
    Looks like they are more relax with tourism related usage as there are many such photos in stock agencies.

    If in doubt write to the tourism agency of the country. I was told by the Australian Tourism Board that if you wanted to use an Australian image to promote Australia as travel destination, they were happy to provide such images free. I think by now they would have digitized those images.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    One U.S. agency in fact has banned the photographers from submitting the following subjects for copyrights reasons:

    Barbie (dolls, name or any product)
    Biltmore (Virginia house) and San Simeon Estate
    Cadillac Ranch
    Chevrolet logo/hood ornament
    Chrysler Building, NYC
    CN Tower
    Coca Cola World
    Dartmouth College and the "tower"
    Disney's Epcot Center and Disneyland, (or any character depictions)
    Eiffel Tower
    Emmy and Grammy award trophies
    Empire State Building
    Ferrari Car
    Flatiron Building, NYC
    Grand Ole Opry
    Indy 500
    Japanese Bullet Train
    Las Vegas, (Major hotels, including: Ny,Ny & MGM)
    Londone Eye (Millennium Wheel)
    Louvre & IM Pei's Pyramid
    Major league sports
    Maserati Car
    McDonald's Arches
    Mississippi, Delta Queen and Natchez paddle steamers
    Mustang Horse Logo
    Mystic Marine Museum
    NASCAR images
    New Orleans Superdome
    Newport Mansions
    Olympics Athletes, Logo and torch
    Oscar award statue
    Porche Car
    Pro Sports teams and insignias
    Rock & Roll Hall of Fame
    Rockefeller Center all buildings and sculptures
    Rolls Royce Car and logo/hood ornament
    Sam Houston Statue
    San Diego Zoo
    Sea World, (Florida & California)
    Sears Tower
    Seattle Space Needle
    Swan Boats in Boston's Public Gardens
    Sydney Opera House
    The British Concord
    The Pacific Exchange, The mercantile Exchange,
    The TGV (French high-speed train)
    Thunderbird Logo
    Tupperware Tower
    Universal Studios
    Walk of Stars & Chinese Theater
    Williamsburg and it's re-enactment actors/performers

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    www.whltelightphotographer.com
    Posts
    1,834

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Quote Originally Posted by arampan
    Lets say I shoot some photos of important landmarks. Eiffel tower, Taj Mahal, Leaning tower of Pizza... I mean Pisa...

    And I wanna sell the photos as stock photos, mouse pads, umbrellas etc... Any copyright issues?

    Lets say I wanna put on the web for a tour agency? Any issues too?
    If it is a public place and the general public can access then there no copyright issue here as the copyright of the picture belong to you. There a slight complexation. For example if you are photographing a shopping centre from outside where the general public have access it is ok, but once you are inside the shopping centre. The management have the right to refuse you the right to photograph the inside or the right to the photos you have shot in order to make a profit as it is their place. As they also have the right to refuse people they don't want into the shopping centre . As long the general public is there then you have all right to photograph any thing but people in public places that a different thing all together again.

  8. #8
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Finally, someone who managed to give an more accurate view than most. One small thing though, I'm still doubtful shooting people in public places is against any law.

    Quote Originally Posted by singscott
    If it is a public place and the general public can access then there no copyright issue here as the copyright of the picture belong to you. There a slight complexation. For example if you are photographing a shopping centre from outside where the general public have access it is ok, but once you are inside the shopping centre. The management have the right to refuse you the right to photograph the inside or the right to the photos you have shot in order to make a profit as it is their place. As they also have the right to refuse people they don't want into the shopping centre . As long the general public is there then you have all right to photograph any thing but people in public places that a different thing all together again.

  9. #9
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Taking a photograph of a building does not infringe the copyright in the building under Singapore laws.

    However, whether the stock agency wants to buy it from you is up to their own internal policies - they may be misguided like a lot of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by arampan
    Lets say I shoot some photos of important landmarks. Eiffel tower, Taj Mahal, Leaning tower of Pizza... I mean Pisa...

    And I wanna sell the photos as stock photos, mouse pads, umbrellas etc... Any copyright issues?

    Lets say I wanna put on the web for a tour agency? Any issues too?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Taking a photograph of a building does not infringe the copyright in the building under Singapore laws.

    However, whether the stock agency wants to buy it from you is up to their own internal policies - they may be misguided like a lot of people.
    If I am not mistakened we are talking about usage of the photos not the physical act of taking the photos. To commercially use a private commerical building or some of the public buildings you need a property release.

    The bigger stock agencies have their own in-house legal counsels to make sure they are not "misguided like a lot of people".

    There are also a different set of copyrights issues whether an image is licensed under Royalty Free or under Rights Protected. You could safely licensed a monopoly game photo under RP but potentially risky if it goes under RF.

  11. #11
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    The big stock agencies may be operating under US laws, which may be different from Singapore laws. The stock agencies in Singapore (much like many photographers in Singapore) simply adopt what they see from the US without regard to Singapore law.

    If it is not an infringement to take a photograph of the building, logically speaking it should not be an infringement to use the photograph taken. In fact, this is provided for in the Copyright Act - s64 is the basic provision stating that it taking a photograph of a building does not infringe the copyright of hte building and s66 states that publication of the photograph so taken does not infringe - both are covered.

    Perhaps you could enlighten us on the legal authority on which you base your premise that a property release is required - preferably UK or Singapore statutes or case law would be good.

    In any case, if you feel that you need to get a property release, then go ahead and do it. Its just an additional step in your workflow and a self-imposed restriction

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    If I am not mistakened we are talking about usage of the photos not the physical act of taking the photos. To commercially use a private commerical building or some of the public buildings you need a property release.

    The bigger stock agencies have their own in-house legal counsels to make sure they are not "misguided like a lot of people".

    There are also a different set of copyrights issues whether an image is licensed under Royalty Free or under Rights Protected. You could safely licensed a monopoly game photo under RP but potentially risky if it goes under RF.
    Last edited by vince123123; 15th October 2005 at 11:55 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Perhaps you could enlighten us on the legal authority on which you base your premise that a property release is required - preferably UK or Singapore statutes or case law would be good.
    I don't base my legal interpretation of property release law on any single country. My photos are distributed by the agencies to many countries. I go by the interpretation of copyrights laws by the lawyers of the agencies. Internationally It has to be right for most countries. Otherwise we would be in trouble.

    I don't impose any restriction on my images. But I go by the contracts I signed with the agencies which ultimately shift the liabilities to me - the photographer.
    Last edited by Sion; 15th October 2005 at 12:23 PM.

  13. #13
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Well in that case, I conclude by saying you don't have any direct legal authority but you just go by whatever the agencies tell you.

    For their part, they may be wise to be cautious as they are stocking photos for sale in many countries - hence more is better than less as some countries (like the US) may require them.

    That does not support your conclusion that I can't sell a photo taken of a building in Singapore, say to an ad agency in Singapore, for use in an advertisement in Singapore, without a property release.

    I guess we have now clarified the scope of your initial comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    I don't base my legal interpretation of property release law of any single country. My photos are distributed by the agencies to many countries. I go by the interpretation of copyrights laws by the lawyers of the agencies. Internationally It has to be right for most countries. Otherwise we would be in trouble.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Singscott - what you are talking about is copyright. If you have a recognisable building in the picture, the owner of the building can enforce their right on the property if you use their building to make money. The issue here is property rights.

    Pte owned buildings can be very sticky, governement owened ones iffy - now I guess you will have difficulty even pointing a camera or carrying an exposed on in. Go try the Immigration Building and see what I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by singscott
    If it is a public place and the general public can access then there no copyright issue here as the copyright of the picture belong to you. There a slight complexation. For example if you are photographing a shopping centre from outside where the general public have access it is ok, but once you are inside the shopping centre. The management have the right to refuse you the right to photograph the inside or the right to the photos you have shot in order to make a profit as it is their place. As they also have the right to refuse people they don't want into the shopping centre . As long the general public is there then you have all right to photograph any thing but people in public places that a different thing all together again.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Well in that case, I conclude by saying you don't have any direct legal authority but you just go by whatever the agencies tell you.
    No. I don't have any "direct legal authority". I am a photographer and not a lawyer.

    I am happy for you to conclude anything you want.

    Sorry got to get back to PS that 55 files. Work time again. Yawn!

  16. #16
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    No problem, thanks for your input. It is always good to have a friendly discussion so that everyone can share and learn from other's experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    No. I don't have any "direct legal authority". I am a photographer and not a lawyer.

    I am happy for you to conclude anything you want.

    Sorry got to get back to PS that 55 files. Work time again. Yawn!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Vincent123

    Very relevant question - are you well ground enough in intellectual rights law to comment with certainty. This is an speciality that is well a lot younger in case law than say contracts. I could ask a client who is based in UK on this - his speciality is intellectual rights but I rather not.

    The sections you cited say it does not infringe upon - ok so taking a photo with a building in it does not infringe - I hazzard to guess that iflargest thing or only thing you see in the picture is the building then this may go out the window - you have no copyrights on reproduction of a copyrighted item. Again when you use it in a commercial context you could run afoul of infringement of rights.

    A thumb of rule is I think due to the FTA with the US large chuncks of our amended copyright act is line with the US act so I would not be so quick to so that it is safe to ignore the law governing copyright in the US because we live in sunny singpore.


    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Well in that case, I conclude by saying you don't have any direct legal authority but you just go by whatever the agencies tell you.

    For their part, they may be wise to be cautious as they are stocking photos for sale in many countries - hence more is better than less as some countries (like the US) may require them.

    That does not support your conclusion that I can't sell a photo taken of a building in Singapore, say to an ad agency in Singapore, for use in an advertisement in Singapore, without a property release.

    I guess we have now clarified the scope of your initial comment.

  18. #18
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    s66 says that it is not infringement to publish the photo taken of the building.

    As for the FTA, the FTA itself is not binding on Singapore law, and many Singapore legislation has been amended (especially on the IP front) to fall in line with the FTA - its only after amendments which these changes apply. US case law may be relevant to interpret Singapore legislation which are based on US legislation. However, the question is, can you help us enucinate Singapore legislation which states that taking a photo of a building and publication thereof is infringement?

    You are right to say that case law in the IP front may be younge rthan contracts, and a lot of issues have not been decided judicially. (actually copyright has been around for a while) Which is why I said, if you feel you need to get a property release, then go ahead. That is not to say that a property release MUST be gotten, and my comments are just to bring up discussion after which the conclusion that the position isn't entirely clear may be reached.

    Since you had mentioned your client, why not ask him and let us know his opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by ellery
    Vincent123

    The sections you cited say it does not infringe upon - ok so taking a photo with a building in it does not infringe - I hazzard to guess that iflargest thing or only thing you see in the picture is the building then this may go out the window - you have no copyrights on reproduction of a copyrighted item. Again when you use it in a commercial context you could run afoul of infringement of rights.

    A thumb of rule is I think due to the FTA with the US large chuncks of our amended copyright act is line with the US act so I would not be so quick to so that it is safe to ignore the law governing copyright in the US because we live in sunny singpore.
    Last edited by vince123123; 15th October 2005 at 12:58 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    in layman's terms, how about a few case scenarios?

    1. we take a picture of Hereen from outside. 2 issues here: a. are we allowed to do that in legal terms? b. are we allowed to publish the photo and/or use it for commercial purposes?

    2. the same case as above, but taken from inside the building, which means that the design/architecture of the interior is concerned as well.

    3. how about "brand" specfic buildings/places such as burger king's fast food outlet from inside and/or outside?

    4. and i suppose the amount of space that the "subject" in concern has in the photo would has some effect as well? if say a certain building occupies not a major part of the photo and there are other buildings in the photo as well, would it be any different if the same building occupies lets say more than 50-75% of the photo?

    I have read some articles regarding these but not pertaining to singapore. so wish to hear anyone's knowledge on these.

    And I guess these depends on the country in which we take the photos and the country/countries we publish/use the photo?

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    www.whltelightphotographer.com
    Posts
    1,834

    Default Re: Copyright issue questions

    Quote Originally Posted by ellery
    Singscott - what you are talking about is copyright. If you have a recognisable building in the picture, the owner of the building can enforce their right on the property if you use their building to make money. The issue here is property rights.

    Pte owned buildings can be very sticky, governement owened ones iffy - now I guess you will have difficulty even pointing a camera or carrying an exposed on in. Go try the Immigration Building and see what I mean.
    Well the thread starter did ask about copyright. Do you know how many people take pictures of the city hall building, parliament house new and old and even the immigration building on the outside not inside is possible and have them printed in traveling books or mags or maps like lonely planet. Just go borders see travel guides. Not only ours but other countries public buildings as well. Oh by the way the white house is the most photographed building in the world. This building have armed guards and anti aircraft missiles guarding it. See how many White House pictures there are out there. As long it is a public have access to the building meaning the outside not inside, property right don't come in play. Only case where outside is an issue is the land you are stand on is not open to public and ptely own. High security places like army bases, prisons and highly sensitive places didin't expose themselves they have perimeters for a good reason. Here a few example ask them where did they get the property rights :

    http://www.photovault.com/link/citie...GVolume01.html

    http://www.worldisround.com/articles/100886/index.html

    http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldgui...ngapore/images

    http://www.thingsasian.com/goto_arti...ssay.1772.html

    There thousands of them. Oh by the way I am not a lawyer, I am just member of the Professional Photographer Assiocation Singapore.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •