Beginner RangeFinder ( Used Leica or New Bessa)

[Ctho]

Dear All,

Been thinking about using a rangefinder for some time now. If my budget is around S$1-2K, what will be a better buy? A new Bessa R2a/ R3a or a used Leica M3 / M2? Will this budget be enough to include a lens? (either a 35mm or a 50mm)

Experts, can give me some advices?

Many Thanks in Advance!

CT.

[pipefish]

It really depends on whether you need a built in lightmeter. The R2A/3A come with aperture priority as well. The M2 and M3 are meterless. Not a problem if you're using negs but not so good if you're exposing trans. In addition, the M3's widest framelines are for a 50mm lens - so don't get that unless your main lens is a 50mm.

In terms of image quality, Bessas are not that far off from Leicas. The differences are very subjective, like bokeh, micro-contrast, etc. In general the Bessa lenses are the equivalent of the better N/C lenses. Most hobby photographers will go a long way with a Bessa - i.e. it is a 'need or want' decision.

For your budget, I would go with the Bessas and upgrade in the future if you really want a Leica. It is not so easy to sell a M2/3 if you don't like it. Alternatively, I would consider the Contax G2 series. 2k can get you the body with all 3 lenses and have some $ left over for film...

[Terence]

I personally think the Bessas are the way to go. In terms of transition from a modern SLR, it's probably the easiest since it has the convenience of Ae mode and in camera metering. They also represent a good bang for the buck and with your budget, you should be able to pick up a body with at least 2 nice lenses.

[Ctho]

Hi Terence & Pipefish,

Thanks for ur reply... If Bessa is the way to go, must it be R2a or R3a? I read a lot abt R2 (mechanical shutter) and some of those like Roger Hicks swear by this camera. I also read that it was being discontinued last July 2004. I dun really need the AE function as offered in R2a/ R3a, However, I do quite enjoyed manual mechanical control of my cameras. Other than the AE function, is there other major differences? And also, where to buy a new R2 in Singapore?

Thanks,
CT.

[kiwitan]

dont buy in sinkapore ... drop a mail to joseph@yao.com. He ships from HK.

Originally Posted by Ctho Hi Terence & Pipefish, Thanks for ur reply... If Bessa is the way to go, must it be R2a or R3a? where to buy a new R2 in Singapore? Thanks, CT.

[Terence]

There aren't any new R2 remaining, the production stopped several years ago. Current models are the R2a and R3a. You can however get ones in good condition. Like Kiwi said, don't buy new here, too expensive. Go for mint used ones.

[southernoise]

I bought my Bessa R, Color Skopar 35, Color Heliar 75 plus other accesories from Joseph at great prices and it all arrived in timely fashion.

Only inconvenience is to TT the payment to him as he does not accept credit card. Do factor in the bank charges on both side with your purchase.

Bessa R is relatively cheap with Color Skopar 35 and works beautifully. Cons are that the meter is not that good for low light and the lens are thread mount. Not so easy to swap lens compared to those bayonet mounts.

[jamesong]

Originally Posted by Ctho Dear All, Been thinking about using a rangefinder for some time now. If my budget is around S$1-2K, what will be a better buy? A new Bessa R2a/ R3a or a used Leica M3 / M2? Will this budget be enough to include a lens? (either a 35mm or a 50mm) Experts, can give me some advices? Many Thanks in Advance! CT.

If you are in no hurry, you can get a Leica M6 classic for US$1,000 used,mint condition and you have left over money to buy Bessa Voightlander lens+bayonet adapter to fit the M6.Comparing the M6 & R2, the R2 shutter is very loud because of metal shutter, M6 used cloth shutters, very silent.I have used the M6 in concerts

[Terence]

I've always liked the Leica's ease of loading, you can do it in the dark after a bit of practice. The shutter is also nice, quiet and stable. The Bessas have quite a distinctive jerk when the shutter is fired, can be undesirable especially when shooting at slow speeds.

The Bessas are less than half the price of a comparable Leica, so you need to look at things in that perspective.

[Ctho]

Hi James and all,

M6 for USD1,000? Where did you spotted it? I went looking around and was quite astonished to see used M6 prices going for S$2,500 to S$3,000 at peninsula area; camera workshop, ron's camera and etc....

Does the M system still have this kind of pricing in this DSLR market in singapore? Just yesterday, I saw a fellow CS trying to sell of his M system... determined but no ready buyers... So I'm kind of confused over the situation here in Singapore. Well, if USD1,000 can get an mint M6, I might think abt it. As for the lenses, will try something simple, like an older 50mm or something...

What do you guys think?

Regards,
CT.

[kex]

there are a few series of M6,the non TTL classic should cost less than 2k..

[Terence]

Might want to consider the Minolta CLE for under $1000. Also, a fully mechanical M4-2 or M4-P will run a bit over $1000 only for nice examples.

[szekiat]

Thought i'd add my 2c worth. I started off using a bessa r2 when it first came out and then migrated on to leicas, having used the m7, m6ttl, m3, m2. I am currently using the konica hexar rf so i think i can safely say i have gone full circle. Of the lot, i think the bessas are great cameras for the price. If u spend most of your time shooting out in the streets, no one will hear the shutter cos of all the background noise. I expect the r2a, r3a to be at least as good. The vibrations are also not a question under such circumstance, since shutter speed is probably high.
The leicas are great in that respect, while they are not silent (go get a p&s digital to hear silent), they come close. The best part is that the shutter movement is very well dampened so that there is little or no vibration. I have a few 20x30 on my wall taken at 1/2second exposures to prove. Useful for travelling when tripods are not an option. Also great for indoor stuff, shooting in clubs, etc where a shutter's flick will spoil the mood.
Then there is the konica, which has not been mentioned so far. I think of it as a compromise. I got mine new with lens and flash for 2k, so a used one should be 1k or less. Its not the most silent in the world but its shutter is well dampened. The motor drive makes more noise though. I love it simply because i have the functions and features of a r2a, with a motor winder and the good dampening comparable to a leica.
Cameras are all a compromise. Take note that a used m6ttl and earlier cam will probably require a CLA soon, which can set u back another 200-300USD.

[Ctho]

Dear all,

Thank you so much to all of u. Great advice.

Btw, few of u guys told me not to buy in S'pore. Where should I order the Bessa then? Who is Joseph? Does he ship new or used cameras? Reliable?

Have a nice weekend fellows!

Regards,
CT

[moon]

Another option is the Minolta CLE or the Leica CL

For the M.CLE.
It's compact and light weight. It has the aperature priority and a BRIGHT viewfinder for 28, 40 and 90 framing. I personally like the bright viewfinder. It's big, bright and comfortable for the eyes. Vibration is also minimum. Comes with Rokkor lens which are multi-coated and takes in most Leica M-mount lens except for a few lens like the NOCT, Dualrange etc.

Leica CL.
It's practically the same as above except for the metering and viewfinder. Metering is the needle matching type and viewfinder limits to 40mm and 90mm. There's no aperature priority.

Both maximum shutter speed is 1/1000. and requires batteries for the metering. The M.CLE requires battery to work as the shutter is battery operated.

[jamesong]

Originally Posted by Ctho Dear all, Thank you so much to all of u. Great advice. Btw, few of u guys told me not to buy in S'pore. Where should I order the Bessa then? Who is Joseph? Does he ship new or used cameras? Reliable? Have a nice weekend fellows! Regards, CT

CT, I have bought cameras & lenses from Dr.Joseph Yao.He is the authorized dealer for Leica & also Bessa and other well known names.He is in Hong Kong and he is very reliable.
As for M6 classic , you can find 2nd hand mint from members of the LUG ( Leica User Group )Forum. Once in a while,members will put it up for sale.
Happy hunting.

[Ctho]

Dear James,

Does Joseph had a website to view?

Thanks,
Chong Tat.

[Terence]

Joseph doesn't have a site, email him directly. I think he has a R special (bundled with 35 Skopar) going at a nice price.

[LKSC]

Another recommendation for Dr Yao. You can buy from him with confidence.

[Ctho]

Ok, I will email him.

Thanks again.

Have a wonderful weekend to all!