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Thread: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

  1. #121
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    That article on one hand claims these plantations (some 200 of them) "many of them have links to Singapore based companies". SG asks for names of companies then excuse is made...no we can't give up names until they have been through our legal process. Sounds like they are trying to blame you guys instead of owning it themselves. Also sounds very very fishy to me. I could be wrong but honestly I don't buy that many are linked to Singapore based companies. I say this because SG seems to be into the high tech industry and banking finance and shipping...wth would anyone in SG want to do with a bunch of palm oil plantations???
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  2. #122
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    [...]wth would anyone in SG want to do with a bunch of palm oil plantations???
    Making money. Palm oil is used in so many products that the demand is steady. To drive up the profit the pressure goes down the line to the farmers. And the weakness (or better: absence) of a proper legal system, enforcement as well as environmental awareness makes it easy to go the cheap way of burning down the forest and farmlands. It's a typical scenario in a developing country, not specific to Indonesia alone.
    EOS

  3. #123
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    I wonder what it is like to live on a palm oil plantation...
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  4. #124
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Did you even read it ? Releasing names before the court verdict is the same as trial by media.
    Let me remind you the timeline of events on this matter:

    First their VP tells us we cannot just complain, must take action against these companies ourselves.

    We said "sure, we changed our laws and now we are ready to take them to task. Just tell us who."

    Minister there said "the names of these companies already public knowledge. But if you want them officially, you must request through diplomatic channels."

    Singapore made formal request.

    "Sorry, can't give you coz got out internal investigation. May be after (top secret?) court verdict (these not public?) then we can consider giving you."

    You don't think they gave us a runabout?

    But in any case, no diff... End result just the same... We have to suck it up. So you just wait for them to take action at their own pace lah.
    Last edited by UncleFai; 20th October 2015 at 08:06 AM.

  5. #125

    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Let me remind you the timeline of events on this matter:

    First their VP tells us we cannot just complain, must take action against these companies ourselves.

    We said "sure, we changed our laws and now we are ready to take them to task. Just tell us who."

    Minister there said "the names of these companies already public knowledge. But if you want them officially, you must request through diplomatic channels."

    Singapore made formal request.

    "Sorry, can't give you coz got out internal investigation. May be after (top secret?) court verdict (these not public?) then we can consider giving you."

    You don't think they gave us a runabout?

    But in any case, no diff... End result just the same... We have to suck it up. So you just wait for them to take action at their own pace lah.
    They don't want to kill the goose that lay the golden egg.

  6. #126
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    They don't want to kill the goose that lay the golden egg.
    This is indeed the difficulty: allegations of corruption aside, palm oil accounts for 4.5% of Indonesia's GDP and agriculture provides for 41% of jobs for their countryman. So yes, it is the goose that lays the golden eggs. But when that goose starts shitting into the neighbour's house, then neighbours will complain lor. And the neighbours are not asking you to kill it, just discipline it can already.

    By the way, the 8 million hectares of land under palm oil mostly in Sumatra and Kalimantan (in 2014) is expected to grow to 13 million hectares in 2020. If what we are having is bad, then I am afraid we ain't seen nothing yet.
    Last edited by UncleFai; 20th October 2015 at 08:38 AM.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    That article on one hand claims these plantations (some 200 of them) "many of them have links to Singapore based companies". SG asks for names of companies then excuse is made...no we can't give up names until they have been through our legal process. Sounds like they are trying to blame you guys instead of owning it themselves. Also sounds very very fishy to me. I could be wrong but honestly I don't buy that many are linked to Singapore based companies. I say this because SG seems to be into the high tech industry and banking finance and shipping...wth would anyone in SG want to do with a bunch of palm oil plantations???
    The indo govt is playing extortion game with these companies.

    They will ask for bribes, so that they won't reveal the names.

    Corruption is rampant in Indonesia.

    U ever wonder why no one single plam oil company has ever come forwars in media and say something abt the haze problem?

    Normally in such a devastating situation, companies will somehow release a press about them are or are not involved and offer some condolences words.

    Nothing came out from these palm oil companies. All keepig quiet, because they know the indo govt is going to ask for bribes from them.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Please only help those who would help themselves ....... leave the Indonesians alone .....................
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  9. #129

    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    The indo govt is playing extortion game with these companies.

    They will ask for bribes, so that they won't reveal the names.

    Corruption is rampant in Indonesia.

    U ever wonder why no one single plam oil company has ever come forwars in media and say something abt the haze problem?

    Normally in such a devastating situation, companies will somehow release a press about them are or are not involved and offer some condolences words.

    Nothing came out from these palm oil companies. All keepig quiet, because they know the indo govt is going to ask for bribes from them.
    Everybody is in the same boat!

    Nobody wants to sink first.

  10. #130

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    This is a classic example of non existent of CSR and Social Values in these palm oil companies.

    The more they keep quiet, the worst they look to the world.

  11. #131
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    I remember seeing Nat Geo photo once of smoke plumes from Indonesia taken from space. Crazy. Also know many American ex pats there are oil guys. Oilmen like to do strange things to lands wherever they go...hummm
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  12. #132

    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    a baby died because of the haze...after reading this news, i'm pretty pissed.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-3...ource=facebook
    Objection !!!

  13. #133
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    a baby died because of the haze...after reading this news, i'm pretty pissed.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-3...ource=facebook

    A Baby that was reported... how many more also suffering without anyone reporting or knowing ??

    To be honest... Singaporean KPKB about the haze on how their health is 'Affected'... but imagine what's it like living in 1000++PSI condition for months on end... certain group of Indonesian, themselves, are the real victims here...

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  14. #134
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    Angry Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    A Baby that was reported... how many more also suffering without anyone reporting or knowing ??

    To be honest... Singaporean KPKB about the haze on how their health is 'Affected'... but imagine what's it like living in 1000++PSI condition for months on end... certain group of Indonesian, themselves, are the real victims here...


    Yes, you are right. We are so much better and more informed on what to do. Are the indonesian people aware of the dangers? Can they easily buy N95 mask? Only if the winds blow into Java Island and stay in Jakarta will action start to move faster.

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tze-Ming View Post

    Yes, you are right. We are so much better and more informed on what to do. Are the indonesian people aware of the dangers? Can they easily buy N95 mask? Only if the winds blow into Java Island and stay in Jakarta will action start to move faster.
    The indo govt gives a hoot abt its people. Unlike our govt, it didn't even give out N95 masks to affected people. In fact, some SG volunteers had to go to the affected areas to give out free N95 masks!

    Can u just imagine, foreigners have to give out free masks for local population?

    U think the indo govt can even be trusted when they don't even care for its own people??

  16. #136

    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    The indo govt gives a hoot abt its people. Unlike our govt, it didn't even give out N95 masks to affected people. In fact, some SG volunteers had to go to the affected areas to give out free N95 masks!

    Can u just imagine, foreigners have to give out free masks for local population?

    U think the indo govt can even be trusted when they don't even care for its own people??
    Maybe you should look at how to use the N95 masks.

    For your info, N95 is only used when the PSI exceeds 200 and those working in the open for a prolong period. more than 3 hours.

    The govt has policy to make us rich. can't we buy our own mask. Why must we always blame the govt? Why must we always depend on our govt? Have we got nothing better to do?

    We are very fortunate that we are Singaporeans. Are we not? If you feel that this is not a good place stay, go else where! Nothing/nobody is stopping you!

    John F K said : Ask not what the country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country!

    Agreed?
    Last edited by Yappy; 21st October 2015 at 06:44 AM.

  17. #137
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    I remember seeing Nat Geo photo once of smoke plumes from Indonesia taken from space. Crazy. Also know many American ex pats there are oil guys. Oilmen like to do strange things to lands wherever they go...hummm
    Interesting how Greenpeace, PETA, and other environmental groups are silent about the massive amount of CO2 released and green destroyed.

  18. #138

    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    This is a classic example of non existent of CSR and Social Values in these palm oil companies.

    The more they keep quiet, the worst they look to the world.
    I don't think they bother.

    They are more interested in making monies.

    To wake them up???? burnt their pockets

  19. #139
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    a baby died because of the haze...after reading this news, i'm pretty pissed.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-3...ource=facebook

    The haze has to claim another 499 lives before the Indo Authorities can deem it as a National Disaster ............. btw, you have got nine lives?......... interesting .......
    Last edited by Zenten; 21st October 2015 at 09:48 AM.
    Nikomi Canpen Zenten :eek:
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  20. #140
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: HAZE AND ITS PROBLEMS....

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Interesting how Greenpeace, PETA, and other environmental groups are silent about the massive amount of CO2 released and green destroyed.
    http://www.wri.org/blog/2015/10/indo...ire-us-economy

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