Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    53

    Default Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Not sure if this is in the correct place on this forum. I would like to seek the advice of fellow Cs members.

    Currently, I have 2 camera systems:

    1. OMD EM5 (1st version) with 12 to 40mm F2.8 lens, 17mm F1.8 and Voigtlander 25mm F0.95 lens.
    2. 5D Mark 3 with 17 to 40mm F4, 24 to 105mm F4 and 50mm F1.4 lens

    Currently, I shoot more photos and did some videos occasionally. I felt that both systems complement each other very well except one issue that it is costly to hold onto so much equipment. Furthermore, my OMD EM5 has some issues with either the mode dial or circuit board and will cost between 120 to 300 to repair by olympus service centre. My OMD has been with me for 2 years and it is an excellent travel kit. (I will not bring 5d mark 3 with lenses for a trip! It is too heavy)

    To me, the OMD has several advantages over the mark 3: Size and weight, IBIS, tilting screen, very sharp with pro series lenses.

    On the other hand, the 5d mark 3 has the following advantages over the OMD: Amazing high ISO performance, better video quality and video friendly features (mic input and headphone jack etc), better control over depth of field.

    Both systems to me complement each other very well. For travel shooting and casual events, I would use the OMD due to its good enough image quality, lightweight and small size, less intrusive. On the other hand, if doing a photo shoot for official events and videos I would go for the 5d mark 3. Currently, my OMD has some issues as per highlighted above and I am thinking if i should:

    a) Repair it
    b) Trade in with olympus and buy the OMD mark 2
    c) Sell off BOTH OMD and 5D mark 3 and get the Sony A7Sii

    For option c, the upcoming Sony A7Sii has almost the best of both my OMD and 5DM3 combined into one.

    a) Relatively light weight and size
    b) Full frame
    c) Even better ISO performance than 5DM3
    d) Better video settings (4K) compared to 5DM3
    e) Weather sealed (not too sure about this, but my OMD EM5 has been in snow, rain etc and survived without a hitch!)
    f) Tilting screen
    g) Good EVF
    h) Focus peaking (which is also available on the OMD EM5 mark 2 and Magic lantern 5D)


    One cons I heard from forums is that the Sony A7 series has very very poor battery life. Not sure if this is true or not. But I don't think this is a huge problem as you can get a few spare batteries.

    HOWEVER, the thing stopping me from moving over to Sony A7 series are its lenses! Don't get me wrong, the Zeiss lenses are very good in terms of image quality and build (but not sure if they are weather sealed or not). My real concerns are as illustrated below:

    Both Canon and Olympus (pro series)lenses have rather good mechanical and repeatable focus and they have hard stops on the closest focusing distance and infinity focus. I find this very important and indispensable for video.

    I went to the Sony store and tried out the Sony A7 with their lenses and I found out that their lenses uses the common fly by wire system that most mirrorless cameras are using. It is somehow better than the other mirrorless lenses but I would really like a lens similar in workings to the Canon and Olympus.

    Therefore, some people have said that you can use canon lenses on a Sony A7 via an adaptor but you will lose control of the aperture as well as making the whole system bulky which defeats the purpose. The Sony A7 with its native lenses are still pretty small and compact in my opinion. It is only slight bigger and slightly heavier than my OMD system.

    Therefore, I am quite stuck as I really don't know what to do at this point. I shoot rather frequently, but I don't think I am good enough to venture into getting paid for photography and videography. Therefore, I would not want to keep so much equipment with me.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank You!

  2. #2

    Default

    Dont need to get sony. I almost did last week, but ended up with e-m1. I mainly shoot indoor events. The things that stopped me are available lenses, pricing and weight n balance.
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Hi Sin77, thanks for your reply. But I do take videos also and don't think that EM1 has very good video.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFreak View Post
    Hi Sin77, thanks for your reply. But I do take videos also and don't think that EM1 has very good video.
    I see. If I'm taking videos, i will go for gh4k.
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  5. #5

    Default

    I switched to the Nex 6 some years back because of the size, they launched the 16-50, not the best of lenses but made a huge step in portability. Before that I carried a compact for my travels even though I had the Nikon 3000, A55, A65 (one at a time) they were just too big and heavy.

    I've just gotten the A6000 and although grandkids arrived last year, I'm shooting a lot more pics with it than I did with the A65. It's got a nice feel, shutter that sound familiar unlike the dead thud. Lens wise, they've got more than I need, but everyone differs, except for really long lenses, I'd say very adequate. The pic quality with their run of mill 50mm lens is incredible, it picked up the streak of dried drool on the kids face....sharp. The sharpness hit me when I did the first comparison with the Nex 6.

    A6000 at $800 gives me all that, A7....only reason I'm not going there is the weight and cost of lenses.

    I only wish the 6000 has body stabilisation, then I can use my 70-400 and be rid of my A65.

    The A7 is very similar in features. The eye auto focus is a superb feature. Let the pro explain, watch and enjoy

    http://youtu.be/21HxRnSlPzc

  6. #6

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFreak View Post
    Currently, I shoot more photos and did some videos occasionally. I felt that both systems complement each other very well except one issue that it is costly to hold onto so much equipment.
    Owning dual systems ultimately gives you more flexibility as you have a choice of the more suitable tool for the task. If you have been used to that, you might find moving to a single system a bit crippling. Like someone who used to own a motorbike and a car, moving to a single car. You will likely have to compromise in some areas, and you'll have to figure out if you can live with them depending on what's important to you.

    For example, if you valued the weight of the E-M5 when travelling, and you travel alot, you might find the A7s heavy for travel as it weighs more. Assuming the E-M5 + 12-40 is your usual travel combi: 28% difference. Might be a lot to some people, not a big deal to others.

    E-M5 + 12-40/f2.8 = 753g
    A7Sii + 24-70/f4 = 1057g

    I'm not sure moving to the A7sII will be any less costly. Have you priced out how much it would cost to get the equivalent of what you have now?

    If you had the cash to spare, you can always consider getting the A7sii system first, give yourself some time with it. Then at a later point (say 6 months?) decide if it's for you and which systems to sell off. Rather than selling off everything first...

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Hi

    Buy a metabones for the A7

    Then you can use your Canon lenses with AF

    Many Canon shooters are doing that now

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    For a fair comparison I think you'd need to equalise the kit you're comparing.
    You mentioned you wouldn't bring your 3 Canon lenses on holidays. But if you do buy into the A7 series which is FF, the equivalent native lenses at the same aperture will be very similar in size. So your saving is largely in the body although factor in the additional batteries required.

    Perhaps what would make more sense is a system based on FE and E. Maybe an A7sii and A6000 (or whatever the replacement is going to be called).
    A7sii for most of your shooting needs and the A6000 with one or two smaller E-mount lenses for travel. The A6000 can play back-up and provide extra reach (pixel density) to your FE system too.
    Whether that would end up costing less than maintaining Canon and m43 I'm not sure, haven't looked into the economics of switching but i suspect it will be quite costly.

    FWIW I think your kit is fine as it is. If it costs at the low end of the repair bill, I think it's worth repairing. Then that would be your only cost as your kit doesn't seem to lack anything in particular.
    But if you want a new toy, and lets face it who doesn't, then you'll have lots of fun choosing but it will probably be quite costly if you decide to switch (from any brand to another brand).

  9. #9

    Default

    Your lens collection is great. It will make sense to trade in for newer body to extend the life of your system. Then you have more time to take pictures instead of buying/selling gears.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Dear all,

    Thanks for the advice! I had just trade in my old OMD EM5 and got the new EM5 mark 2 direct from olympus. It has several features which I think are great improvements to me:

    1. Focus peaking (useful when taking videos or using manual focus lenses)
    2. Better video quality (in terms of bit rate, didn't do a real life test)
    3. Better grip (my hands are not too large)
    4. Better IBIS
    5. Fully articulated screen
    6. High resolution mode (useful for landscape and product photography)

    So far so good! But in terms of noise level and image quality i would say it is similar to the first generation OMD EM5. AF is still as fast and good though.

    For the Sony A7 cameras, I had went to the stores to test out the cameras. I would say that the manual focusing rings of the native sony lenses are quite good. In terms of the focus accuracy and speed it is MUCH MUCH better than the older generations of focus by wire lenses that I had ever used before.

    In terms of size, the lenses are still big (as compared to M43) but are smaller and lighter than DSLR full frame equivalent. AF speed is very fast (similar to OMD)) in the store as they usually have good lighting and contrasting subjects to test on. Not sure in the real world how will it be, I have heard from some reviews online that the A7s focus rather slowly? Hopefully some users of A7s can confirm or correct with me on that. The few downsides are the price (2nd hand from Clubsnap costs 2400? Also same as 2nd hand 5D) and it has lower resolution. Although its trump card are its size, weight and sheer high ISO performance.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Congrats on the new camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFreak View Post
    Not sure in the real world how will it be, I have heard from some reviews online that the A7s focus rather slowly? Hopefully some users of A7s can confirm or correct with me on that.
    I had one on loan for 2-3 months with the native Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f/1.8 ZA. I did find the AF surprisingly sluggish, even up to f4, but because I only had it temporarily, can't rule out that it might have been user error/unfamiliarity to some extent.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Can share the trade in deal? My gf has a em5 she want to get a new camera.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    @singapore
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFreak View Post
    Both Canon and Olympus (pro series)lenses have rather good mechanical and repeatable focus and they have hard stops on the closest focusing distance and infinity focus. I find this very important and indispensable for video.

    I went to the Sony store and tried out the Sony A7 with their lenses and I found out that their lenses uses the common fly by wire system that most mirrorless cameras are using.
    Hi ColdFreak, do you mind explaining to me what you mean above or any keyword that I can google for more info?

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Hi DSolZ. I trade in from Olympus service centre. Not sure if they will be willing to accept a fully working EM5. Mine had some issues and initially I wanted to go and repair it. That is when they told me about the trade in. You can call olympus service centre to check it out.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Hi Kandinsky, not sure about the unfamiliarity issue. AF speed is usually determined by the camera. Unless you focus on things which has low contrast such as a plain white background or wall etc. It is such a pity as A7s is great in many aspect!

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Hi fxsg123,

    Canon or other traditional DSLR lenses have a manual focusing ring, where the rotation of the focus ring in MF mode turns the lens elements directly in the lens for focusing. Furthermore, they usually have a scale focusing marking on the lens to determine approximately which distances the lens is focusing at.

    Olympus pro series lenses such as the 12 to 40mm, 40 to 150 and 7 to 14mm F2.8 has a clutch mechanism focus ring. You can pull back the ring for MF and it will reveal a scale focusing ring. The manual focus ring is well dampen and has hard stops on both ends (closest focusing distance and inifinity focus). To me, Currently, I only have the 12 to 40mm F2.8 lens. To me, the manual focusing behaves exactly like traditional DSLR lenses. You can go youtube to see reviews on the lens to understand what the clutch mechanism meant.

    Even though I saw from some online sources that the lenses are focus by wire (as in the turn of the manual focus ring triggers an electrical signal to turn the lens element using a small motor), I feel that the focus feel is as good as a true manual focus lens.

    This is unique in the world of mirrorless camera lenses where the focus ring in those other lenses are rather useless for repeatable focus and reliable focusing. Furthermore, they have a slight lag interval between actual focusing on the lens and when you turn the focusing ring.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Dilemma between Micro 4/3, full frame, Sony A7

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFreak View Post
    Hi Kandinsky, not sure about the unfamiliarity issue. AF speed is usually determined by the camera. Unless you focus on things which has low contrast such as a plain white background or wall etc. It is such a pity as A7s is great in many aspect!
    I see what you mean. What I meant by unfamiliarity was that me being new to the camera might have affected my experience of the AF speed, not the AF speed itself. For me, I've found that it takes me some time with a camera before I have a better understanding of which AF modes to use for different scenes/subjects, for example. But yes, knowing that you report the same AF speed issue probably means it wasn't due to this reason!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •