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Thread: Confused

  1. #1
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    Default Confused

    Quite confuse about Aperture, shutter and ISO
    Basically I use Shutter speed
    1/60 for normal shot
    1/1000 for snap shot or capture some movement
    1 for night shot
    6 or 8 for night effect ie firework or dash of vehicle.

    How abt the speed for the speed in between them? i.e the speed between 1/3200 to 1/2000 and 1/60 to 5. When to use them?

    For aperture I use
    2.8 for day
    6.3 for night
    how about the rest?

    For ISO
    What is the use of using high ISO at night when high ISO generates more noise?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Confused

    Why don't you try it out and determine the difference yourself? I presume you're using digital thus the qn on noise, so just go mess up your usual settings and return with findings then we can truely discuss the issue.

    Setting a higher ISO is a compromise in the event that one is unable/unsuited to make a long exposure in low light conditions. If you want the picture so much, then you just have to live with the noise that comes with high ISO.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Confused

    Then perhaps you should attend one of those basic courses that will help you to understand its uses.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Confused

    Will anyone be interested if I conduct 1 free basic photography coursE?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Confused

    My working hours is super odd hours sometime work sometime dun so is very difficult to attend course unless I choose my own lesson and my own day.
    Anyway how do you judge when to use which aperture via shutter for daytime?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    Will anyone be interested if I conduct 1 free basic photography coursE?
    me definately but for you you will be getting some bombardment

  7. #7

    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by blurrblurr
    My working hours is super odd hours sometime work sometime dun so is very difficult to attend course unless I choose my own lesson and my own day.
    Anyway how do you judge when to use which aperture via shutter for daytime?
    Tot of borrowing books from national library? Like 'understanding exposure' etc? You can get answer from reading those books.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Confused

    How/When to use Aperture/Shutter cannot explain in one sentence lah...
    Try to attend basic photography course

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by blurrblurr
    My working hours is super odd hours sometime work sometime dun so is very difficult to attend course unless I choose my own lesson and my own day.
    Anyway how do you judge when to use which aperture via shutter for daytime?

    aperture: when u have to decide u want sharp or blur background(the depth of field), also in BW, light or darker shade for colour objects.

    shutter: freeze frame, pan, ambient light(with flash) decides the speed.

    using the preset mode n let ur cam decide for u if u
    r not too keen to try and remember.

    sometimes, u simply have no choice due to not enough/too much lights.

    hope that help
    jude

  10. #10

    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by judeseah
    aperture: when u have to decide u want sharp or blur background(the depth of field), also in BW, light or darker shade for colour objects.

    shutter: freeze frame, pan, ambient light(with flash) decides the speed.

    using the preset mode n let ur cam decide for u if u
    r not too keen to try and remember.

    sometimes, u simply have no choice due to not enough/too much lights.

    hope that help
    jude
    Err,

    I am confused bt your explanation

  11. #11

    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by blurrblurr
    Quite confuse about Aperture, shutter and ISO
    Basically I use Shutter speed
    1/60 for normal shot
    1/1000 for snap shot or capture some movement
    1 for night shot
    6 or 8 for night effect ie firework or dash of vehicle.

    How abt the speed for the speed in between them? i.e the speed between 1/3200 to 1/2000 and 1/60 to 5. When to use them?

    For aperture I use
    2.8 for day
    6.3 for night
    how about the rest?

    For ISO
    What is the use of using high ISO at night when high ISO generates more noise?
    as a general rule, you should be shooting at a speed of 1/(focal length of ur lens) for handheld shots. for example, if your lens focal length is 105mm, you should be shooting at 1/125 sec. shooting at 1/60 sec handheld regardless of lens focal length may give you blurry photos. for example, using a 300mm lens to shoot wildlife at 1/60 sec, you will definitely need to mount your camera on a tripod to avoid camera shake.

    speeds between 1/3200 to 1/2000 sec are very seldom used unless you want to "freeze" very fast action indeed in your photo.

    slower speeds between 1/60 to 5 sec can be used if you want to achieve a "silky smooth" look to flowing water for example. or to achieve motion blur caused by the movement of people. you may also need to use these slower speeds if the available lighting is low, for example shooting landscapes at twilight.

    the use of aperture should depend on your photographic intention, not the time of day. for example, you may want to use a very small aperture when shooting landscapes and macro, to get as much of your subject as possible into focus in your photograph. as a general rule of thumb, i think you would be shooting at smaller apertures during the day because it is brighter during the day. you may also want to select a large aperture when photographing portraits so that the background can be thrown out of focus and your subject is accentuated in the photograph.

    as the others have already mentioned. i'm sure a photography instruction book will be able to give you many more examples of understanding shutter speed and aperture.

    the use of high iso, although it generates more noise, is that it is sometimes the only way to get a photograph. this is because high iso allows you to photograph in low-light conditions. for example, in a low lighting situation where you have no choice but to handhold your camera, getting a shot (albeit noisy/grainy) is better than getting no shot at all.
    Last edited by zaren; 10th October 2005 at 09:30 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by blurrblurr
    Quite confuse about Aperture, shutter and ISO
    Basically I use Shutter speed
    1/60 for normal shot
    1/1000 for snap shot or capture some movement
    1 for night shot
    6 or 8 for night effect ie firework or dash of vehicle.

    How abt the speed for the speed in between them? i.e the speed between 1/3200 to 1/2000 and 1/60 to 5. When to use them?

    For aperture I use
    2.8 for day
    6.3 for night
    how about the rest?

    For ISO
    What is the use of using high ISO at night when high ISO generates more noise?
    You really sound confused. My suggestion is go and get an introductory to photography book, read it, practice, fread some more and shoot some more.

    Just remember, there is really no "correct settings", for any of the shooting situation you mentioned. Your job as the photographer re exposure, is to balance balance the apeture, shutter and ISO, to achieve what you want. And there is no hard and fast rules.

    Your questions suggested you are very new to photography. As I said many times, go shoot, make mistake, and you will be much better everytime you press the shutter.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  13. #13

    Default Re: Confused

    some basics for you to get started

    read this even though its for DSLR camera its a good read

    http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/enjoydslr/

  14. #14

    Default Re: Confused

    Let me try to give a concise explanation of only the basics. Please remember that what I am saying is not a hard and fast rule. Rules can be broken

    There are 3 variables which you should know about-
    • SHUTTER SPEED: The usable shutter speed range for a given situation is restricted in order to prevent motion blur in photographs. There are again 3 conditions to remember where blur occurs-
      1. Any shutter speed below 1/60s results in hand vibrations affecting the sharpness of the photograph. (This value depends on your hands; some people say they can handhold 1/15 as well.)
      2. Any shutter speed below the inverse of the focal length of the lens results in hand movements affecting the sharpness of the photograph. Thus if you are shooting at 300mm, you should shoot at 1/300s or higher.
      3. If you are shooting a moving object, the shutter speed has to be higher than the speed of the object movement. For moving people, I would imagine roughly 1/60s, for vehicles 1/250s, and much higher for faster sports.
    Points 1 and 2 can be ignored if you are shooting on a tripod; point 3 holds true even while shooting with a tripod or a VR lens. Never go below the minimum shutter speed suggested by any of these criteria unless you want to capture movement.
    • ISO: Do not increase the ISO from its lowest setting unless you are unable to capture a shot using this setting. That was easy
    • APERTURE: The aperture you chose will depend on the following basic guidelines.
    1. Wider apertures (f2 and not f22, also called smallest f-stop) result in lesser depth of focus. That is, only the objects at the same distance from the camera to the point where you focused will be sharp. The closer and further objects will be rendered out of focus. Normally for landscapes you want everything in focus, so you will chose the smallest aperture/highest f-stop. On the other hand, for portraits or when you want to highlight a person/object, you would go for the widest aperture/smallest f-stop.
    2. A lens has limitations. Usually the pictures taken at the widest aperture setting are soft/not sharp. Similarly pictures taken at the smallest apertures/highest f-stop are not sharp as well. Usually lenses are sharp from f5.6 to f11 or thereabouts. Again this varies for different lenses.
    Now for some scenarios. Luckily in all modes the camera tells you which combination of settings will give you a well exposed picture. If you are shooting in P mode to begin with, you might get these kinds of options when you rotate the command dial-

    F stop, shutter speed- 2,1/8; 2.8,1/15; 4,1/30; 5.6,1/60; 8,1/125; 11,1/250; 16,1/500; 22,1/1000

    Any of these combinations will give you a good shot. But wait; first you eliminate all shutter speeds that can give rise to movement as explained above unless you want it! Then you eliminate the extreme f-stop values if you want to capture the sharpest image. Most important of all, chose lower f-stop for isolating objects and higher f-stops for getting the whole scene in focus.

    Now all this seems quite a bit, but itís not so difficult and with a little practice these things will simply be at the back of your mind. The best part about digital is that there is no cost in experimenting and trying. So just go ahead and shoot several pictures and it will be a breeze.

    kashi

  15. #15

    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by vkashi
    Let me try to give a concise explanation of only the basics. Please remember that what I am saying is not a hard and fast rule. Rules can be broken

    There are 3 variables which you should know about-
    • SHUTTER SPEED: The usable shutter speed range for a given situation is restricted in order to prevent motion blur in photographs. There are again 3 conditions to remember where blur occurs-
      1. Any shutter speed below 1/60s results in hand vibrations affecting the sharpness of the photograph. (This value depends on your hands; some people say they can handhold 1/15 as well.)
      2. Any shutter speed below the inverse of the focal length of the lens results in hand movements affecting the sharpness of the photograph. Thus if you are shooting at 300mm, you should shoot at 1/300s or higher.
      3. If you are shooting a moving object, the shutter speed has to be higher than the speed of the object movement. For moving people, I would imagine roughly 1/60s, for vehicles 1/250s, and much higher for faster sports.
    Points 1 and 2 can be ignored if you are shooting on a tripod; point 3 holds true even while shooting with a tripod or a VR lens. Never go below the minimum shutter speed suggested by any of these criteria unless you want to capture movement.
    • ISO: Do not increase the ISO from its lowest setting unless you are unable to capture a shot using this setting. That was easy
    • APERTURE: The aperture you chose will depend on the following basic guidelines.
    1. Wider apertures (f2 and not f22, also called smallest f-stop) result in lesser depth of focus. That is, only the objects at the same distance from the camera to the point where you focused will be sharp. The closer and further objects will be rendered out of focus. Normally for landscapes you want everything in focus, so you will chose the smallest aperture/highest f-stop. On the other hand, for portraits or when you want to highlight a person/object, you would go for the widest aperture/smallest f-stop.
    2. A lens has limitations. Usually the pictures taken at the widest aperture setting are soft/not sharp. Similarly pictures taken at the smallest apertures/highest f-stop are not sharp as well. Usually lenses are sharp from f5.6 to f11 or thereabouts. Again this varies for different lenses.
    Now for some scenarios. Luckily in all modes the camera tells you which combination of settings will give you a well exposed picture. If you are shooting in P mode to begin with, you might get these kinds of options when you rotate the command dial-

    F stop, shutter speed- 2,1/8; 2.8,1/15; 4,1/30; 5.6,1/60; 8,1/125; 11,1/250; 16,1/500; 22,1/1000

    Any of these combinations will give you a good shot. But wait; first you eliminate all shutter speeds that can give rise to movement as explained above unless you want it! Then you eliminate the extreme f-stop values if you want to capture the sharpest image. Most important of all, chose lower f-stop for isolating objects and higher f-stops for getting the whole scene in focus.

    Now all this seems quite a bit, but itís not so difficult and with a little practice these things will simply be at the back of your mind. The best part about digital is that there is no cost in experimenting and trying. So just go ahead and shoot several pictures and it will be a breeze.

    kashi
    Solid explanation.
    Anyway, here's a "dictonary" which you can refer to.
    http://www.dpreview.com/learn/

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Confused

    ok Seems like I have got an clear ideas now. Time to do my homework!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by vkashi
    [*]Wider apertures (f2 and not f22, also called smallest f-stop) result in lesser depth of focus. That is, only the objects at the same distance from the camera to the point where you focused will be sharp. The closer and further objects will be rendered out of focus.
    Are you talking about depth of field or depth of focus? Depth of focus refers to the lens to image distance you can change before the focused image of the subject becomes unsharp.

    Depth of field is the distance between the nearest and furthest points of a subject(s) that can be shot sharp at one focus setting. Other than having small or big apertures, shooting macro/close-ups will result in less depth of field, and shooting subjects further away will give you more depth of field. And, the longer the focal length of lens the less depth of field even with the same aperture & subject distance, f4 on a 50mm has more depth of field than f4 on a 200mm. There is a lot to read up on, such as what is the circle of confusion that better explains how we view depth of field & the '1/3 in' focusing rule.

    Finally to point out that regardless at which f-stop, sharpness deteriorates gradually. I just feel the post quoted above implied that it happens suddenly. True when shooting macro, refer to any bug picture, but not for a general scene. However, it does depend on what any one person sees as sharp and unsharp (circle of confusion).

  18. #18

    Default Re: Confused

    Can try this link. I find the explanations here with pictures to illustrate makes it so much easier to understand...

    http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/enjoydslr/index.html
    There are no bad photographs, just different perspectives. ;)

  19. #19

    Default Re: Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by foxtwo
    Are you talking about depth of field or depth of focus? Depth of focus refers to the lens to image distance you can change before the focused image of the subject becomes unsharp.

    Depth of field is the distance between the nearest and furthest points of a subject(s) that can be shot sharp at one focus setting. Other than having small or big apertures, shooting macro/close-ups will result in less depth of field, and shooting subjects further away will give you more depth of field. And, the longer the focal length of lens the less depth of field even with the same aperture & subject distance, f4 on a 50mm has more depth of field than f4 on a 200mm. There is a lot to read up on, such as what is the circle of confusion that better explains how we view depth of field & the '1/3 in' focusing rule.

    Finally to point out that regardless at which f-stop, sharpness deteriorates gradually. I just feel the post quoted above implied that it happens suddenly. True when shooting macro, refer to any bug picture, but not for a general scene. However, it does depend on what any one person sees as sharp and unsharp (circle of confusion).
    yes, you are right- it should read depth of field and not depth of focus. regarding the other points, you are right there as well. however, there are many points that i did not stress on as i thought i should first only write about the very basic things. indeed, as you go along there will be many other issues that one can deal with- like light quality, light direction, bokeh, effect of background type on bokeh, flash settings, fill flash, effect of print/viewing size on depth of field due to circle of confusion, underexposing and overexposing, using appropriate metering styles, dynamic range of the shot, bracketing and stitching to overcome dynamic range, post processing etc. i am sure i missed many more.

    i think we should think from the questioners/learners point of view. usually, it is the sudden introduction to a lot of jargon and variables that overwhelms the person into thinking that it is too complex. the idea is to first talk of the simple things (even though it might be wrong or incomplete) and then move on to more complex things.

    btw, i am not trying to defend myself , thanks for pointing out the errors in the post.

    kashi

  20. #20

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