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Thread: "Small island, small minds?"

  1. #41
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    No, I am not known for my command of the English language. But I do know how to read.
    And I do know of some people who think they know how to read actually don't!

    When I pointed my finger at that "Idiot Ang Mo", I was doing just that. Pointing my finger at that "Idiot Ang Mo". I did not point my finger at the entire Ang Mo race. Do you need an education to know the difference? Can you read. Do I have to point out that my ire was directed at individuals - not the Ang Mo race?

    You are entitled to think that I am a bloody "ar****le". That is perfectly fine with me. But don't insult my ancestors who were sages when the Ang Mos were still savages. I do not have the wish to indulge you in Chinese History.

    But for heaven sake's some bad drivers do not make the entire Singapore people "Small-minded".

    I hope you are broad-minded to see the obvious difference. Or maybe you are also one of "them"?
    You mean that that the article was to discredit the entire national of Singapore drivers too is that? You need an education to tell the differences too? Whether you cast the stone one individual or entire 'Ang Mo race' you certainly did. Strangle, ancestors of Singaporean is not a single race from a single place, so's the entire Ang Mo races.

    Throwing the stones back at them does not make us any better than them, I hope that you are broad-minded to understand that or I won't be "one of them" just because I am not in the same stance as you.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Small island
    Small mind
    Inferiority complex
    Writer is a European

    You have some form of complex? An "I am better than you complex?". So a European is better? You assume that because the writer is a Europen, she may not get into the act?

    What ails your mentality?

    Yes, the drivers here have bad driving habits. I have lived and worked in US and UK. I have driven in Europe. Yes, when I was living in London in the 80s, the drivers were largely well behaved. But my latest experience there is not so good any more.

    You know what? The worst traffic offenders and the most recalcitrant I have seen in Singapore are AngMos! And in particular, the cyclists! They think they own the road. They cycle abreast in twos and threes when there cars behind queueing to overtake them.

    Once a idiot Ang Mo actually opened my car door when I was waiting in a traffic junction, because I gave him a little "toot" to warn him that I was going to overtake him. Another gave me a finger up because I overtook him. I gave him a response that his finger should go up his a***.

    They have also irritated my wife and friends. It was only when we discussed these things, that we realised what the corporate attitude of these wonderful Ang Mos are!

    Well, all this is not to justify the baad driving behaviour of Singapore drivers. But to hopefully inculcate in you a more reasonable mentality?

    Small island?
    Small minds?
    Inferiority complex?
    Non European?

    or

    Big country
    Overblown mind
    Superiority complex
    Terrible Ang Mos

    Which is the worse offender?
    He!he!, I think this was just a reaction of the Ang Mo's to the driving habits of the locals, this is why they behave so weird, by cycling next to each other deliberately.......action is reaction.......

    HS

  3. #43
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Phildate
    There is now a race known as 'Ang Mo'?? Last time I looked on the immigration form I was described as a Caucasian.

    I know it's not considered a rude or racist term (even though it is) but I think the way you use it Student, it becomes just that.

    And this thread was all about politeness I believe...
    What is in a name?.........ang moh, westerner, red hair, whites, all the same, lah! :-)............

    The newspaper article does have the impression of 'looking down' on the locals in a general sense, while not all Singaporeans are behaving that way........

    While I do agree to the points here, I think that people who come here, should adapt to the situation here, if they behave differently from where they come from, then I think you should accept that........it may not develop in the way the westerners want, well so be it, this is not the west.....Although I do think younger people in HK are better in this respect, even in China I can see the difference, and I don't believe this is an effect of the west.

    I do have the impression that many people from the west, come to Asia with an air/idea of 'we come here to educate the people overhere', or with an idea that alot of things here not being done 'correctly' or 'properly', and this also goes into manners apparently............

    Everyone have their own way of doing things.........not all in the west are going the way it should either...........

    HS

  4. #44
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    You mean that that the article was to discredit the entire national of Singapore drivers too is that? You need an education to tell the differences too? Whether you cast the stone one individual or entire 'Ang Mo race' you certainly did. Strangle, ancestors of Singaporean is not a single race from a single place, so's the entire Ang Mo races.

    Throwing the stones back at them does not make us any better than them, I hope that you are broad-minded to understand that or I won't be "one of them" just because I am not in the same stance as you.
    I think you completely didn't understand the point Student wanted to make: that not ALL Ang Moh's (westerner, white for those who read more into it) are well behaved..............

    HS

  5. #45
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Phildate
    Having driven for years in England and now for two years here, the difference is quite amazing. I try to retain my own personal standards of courtesy and politeness but sometimes it is hard. Of course it is unwise to generalise in such a way as the writer of the original article has but let me cite an example that highlights the difference for me:

    Two lanes are merging into one due to roadworks/broken down vehicle/tree cutting. In UK, drivers would alternately merge, one from left followed by one from right lane and the whole thing happens smoothly.
    I don't know specifically about the UK, but in other European countries it's the law that you have to take turns.

    Im not sure about the rule here, but if people had a brain they would realize that everyone would get ahead faster if they would follow this example. What I observe here frequently is that double- or triple-lane roads get effectively turned into single lane roads because everyone changes (by necessity, no thanks to other antisocial drivers) to the unblocked lane if there's an obstruction ahead far away on the other lanes. Related to this is that everyone likes to stick to the centre or right lane on the expressways, even if the left lane is completely clear. (Slow going trucks are particularly annoying and almost force you to - illegally - overtake on the left.) A lot of traffic jams here are completely avoidable if people just used common sense.

    Signalling is, of course optional. (I noticed recently that even the Singapore police force doesn't signal before turns.) I guess that's better than signalling one way and going the other (bus drivers are for some unknown reasons among the worst offenders here).

    Traffic lights? I've never seen so many people ignore red traffic lights before I came here. Also, while in other countries the road markings at traffic lights mean "stop here", in Singapore they're interpreted as "stop a few metres beyond here, and inch forward more and more while you're waiting for the green light".

    The basic driving theory test must have been changed recently. It seems that most drivers think "double yellow lines" or "zigzag lines" or "pedestrian crossing" = "parking lot". For some strange reason, people (not only taxi drivers) also seem to think that emergency flashers somehow give them some special right to park anywhere. Not to mention all those i***ts parking on pedestrian sidewalks, forcing everyone, including children, elderly, and in particular wheel-chair bound people, to use the road where they get horned at or (only almost, if they're lucky) run over. I'm puzzled by this; compared to other big cities I've seen, Singapore has an awful lot of legal parking lots almost everywhere.

    So why is Singapore different? I believe people are more or less the same (i***ts) all over the world. Despite all the anecdotes about Singapore being a "fine city", what is obviously sorely lacking is a minimum of enforcement of traffic rules.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    I think you completely didn't understand the point Student wanted to make: that not ALL Ang Moh's (westerner, white for those who read more into it) are well behaved..............

    HS
    Just like he completely misunderstand the statement of the written comment about all Singaporean being small minded. Like I say, throwing back the stone doesn't make us any better than them.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    I don't know specifically about the UK, but in other European countries it's the law that you have to take turns.

    Im not sure about the rule here, but if people had a brain they would realize that everyone would get ahead faster if they would follow this example. What I observe here frequently is that double- or triple-lane roads get effectively turned into single lane roads because everyone changes (by necessity, no thanks to other antisocial drivers) to the unblocked lane if there's an obstruction ahead far away on the other lanes. Related to this is that everyone likes to stick to the centre or right lane on the expressways, even if the left lane is completely clear. (Slow going trucks are particularly annoying and almost force you to - illegally - overtake on the left.) A lot of traffic jams here are completely avoidable if people just used common sense.

    Signalling is, of course optional. (I noticed recently that even the Singapore police force doesn't signal before turns.) I guess that's better than signalling one way and going the other (bus drivers are for some unknown reasons among the worst offenders here).

    Traffic lights? I've never seen so many people ignore red traffic lights before I came here. Also, while in other countries the road markings at traffic lights mean "stop here", in Singapore they're interpreted as "stop a few metres beyond here, and inch forward more and more while you're waiting for the green light".

    The basic driving theory test must have been changed recently. It seems that most drivers think "double yellow lines" or "zigzag lines" or "pedestrian crossing" = "parking lot". For some strange reason, people (not only taxi drivers) also seem to think that emergency flashers somehow give them some special right to park anywhere. Not to mention all those i***ts parking on pedestrian sidewalks, forcing everyone, including children, elderly, and in particular wheel-chair bound people, to use the road where they get horned at or (only almost, if they're lucky) run over. I'm puzzled by this; compared to other big cities I've seen, Singapore has an awful lot of legal parking lots almost everywhere.

    So why is Singapore different? I believe people are more or less the same (i***ts) all over the world. Despite all the anecdotes about Singapore being a "fine city", what is obviously sorely lacking is a minimum of enforcement of traffic rules.
    I always thought that those drivers that signal the wrong way do so because the cars signal wiring has somehow been reversed..........not sure if this is true, but it could be the case.

    Although there are remarks about SG drivers, you should come to Holland what kind of drivers they have there! :-) cutting the queue, tailgating, slow driving on the fast lane because they somehow like to play 'police'.........there are bad drivers all over the world........many cyclist (at least in the city Amsterdam where I lived for 22 years) behave very bad too, going through red light etc, having no respect to other road users......and still expect others to respect them......(did you know that the rule now is that when you hit a cyclist with a car, the car driver is ALWAYS at fault by the law! No matter if it was the cyclist fault........the 'stronger' road user is supposedly to take more caution than the less powerful user..........).

    It does trickle down as you said to common sense, but it is also psychological: once you step into that mean machine, somehow the mind changes, from a softhearted obedient softspoken man into a macho egoistic man :-), now he has power!!

    Also, city life makes people more stressed, and the dense roads here too, on top of this there is also this 'first me, than you' attitude on the road and elsewhere.........when car drivers turn into a road they will hardly ever stop for pedestrians here in Asia, apparently thats the way overhere, lets just accept that, and be careful when you cross.

    HS

  8. #48
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    This is what i see.....

    Most driver: I rushing for time (actually they mean I don't give a sh*t just don't eat into my lane and don't kiss my car)

    For those crossing the road here: Cross at your own risk.

    For bus driver: still wondering anyone cheat on him hence no time to bother about traffic.

    For taxi driver: If i don't cut into this lane, the passenger behind will @#%& me. (sometime taxi driver have no choice so give them a break)

    For another taxi driver: Got ppl flag, all the way to the left (3rd lane to the 1st lane at 160 o ) if not cannot hit my rental.

    For lorry driver: Knock me if you want.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    looks like tis threads is turning into 'gd drivers vs bad drivers' thingy already...

    straying from original topic. FYI, i dun drive.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Ethnics aside, I sense an appeal of injustice from the author. One that screams "I'm unappreciated". I think it's the voice of many who have tried to be courteous but have been taken for granted.

    The author does write "...the only way I know how to change something as ingrained as this is to start with myself...". I applaud that statement; "Courtesy begins with me" as the campaign goes.

    So I think it's a simple article calling for a gracious society and it's just that.

    The problem is that the author, being a caucasian, is seen as a "superiority complex" calling us small-minded people. I don't think a few black sheeps can justify calling the whole Singapore population that.

    But I think it's dangerous to start picking on whether the "ang-mo" is right or wrong. If we want to progress as a multi-racial country, then we should see beyond the skin. If we want a gracious society, then we must begin with ourselves. Albeit we may feel losing out at time. It calls for a discernment between being meek and being weak, or being assertive and being agressive.

  11. #51

    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    all i can say to some of these ang-mos is to quit whinning. If you are unhappy, pls go home. Dont come around here to whine & gripe when there are bad apples every where irregardless of race or religion.
    Some of these bad apples just cant take criticisms.......when ang-mos give criticisms, it's constructive but it's deemed offensive when they are criticised by others.

    Pls solve your problems in your own backyard before you pass comments & judgements on others.
    I have frequent interactions with ang-mos and most of these pple just comment & criticise abt the pple here, the government, LKY etc......and there are some who really appreciates this country here and how its run.

    Sheesh, these pple are biting the hand that feeds them! If your own country is so much better, pls go home. We dont need moaners and groaners.
    We dont need your so-called liberal ideas.....that has brought decay and decadence to your own country.

    Yes, some of us are bad drivers, rude etc.....ang-mos are polite, excellent drivers.....so what. Life goes on......

    Pls be polite & exercise patience and restraint in a foreign land......If you cant stand bad drivers, dont drive. If you cant stand rudeness, then zip your mouth shut!

    I noted the 'arguments' and I think it's getting too 'scientific'. The simple explanation to all these is: We are all HUMANS and we humans behave differently. We are unique and that is why our differences lead to wars & chaos. We just have to accept this and live with it.
    Que Sera Sera.
    Last edited by pcc; 27th September 2005 at 11:46 AM.

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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz
    but the meek will eventually inherent the earth!!
    While the rest of us will reach the stars!!!

  13. #53
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    But don't insult my ancestors who were sages when the Ang Mos were still savages. I do not have the wish to indulge you in Chinese History.
    That's going off topic now, but... Well, no one was insulting your ancestors. That's for one. Second, it's ironic to read your comment quoted above, after you accused caucasians of superiority complex. Yes, it's too bad that some of us suffer from that bad nasty trait. And you too, by the way. Your comment shows that.

    Personally I find your comment about savages more entertaining that insulting. Probably because I know more of Chinese history than you of European

    Chill out and have a nice day.
    Last edited by Bromba; 27th September 2005 at 12:15 PM.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Don't wish to see the next few ppl going to court is from CS.

    'Peace everyone' 'Peace'

    say anything you want but say it in your PM.

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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    I mean every word I say. I am direct and to the point. If you have any rebuttal to my comments, say it.

    I am particularly pissed off by such comments as made by you. People who only see the faults in others (allegedly less cultured, small minded, non Ang Mos) but ignoring the terrible attributes in themselves (documented big ego, red hair, big country mentality)..

    I suppose one needs to know the difference between what is a baby and what is bathwater, and not throw one out with the other. Was the tone of the letter condescending? Quite possibly. However, there are some truths well worth noting about Singaporean's driving habits.

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    In my profession, the worst offenders are the Ang Mos.
    Although you backtrack a little in your later posts, you here are promulgating the same kind of generalisation that you are so appalled at. I can read this in no other way than that you are making a sweeping statement about that ethnicity. By the way, "Ang Mo" is a perjorative term, no better than someone calling us "Chinks".

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    But don't insult my ancestors who were sages when the Ang Mos were still savages. I do not have the wish to indulge you in Chinese History..
    Please tell me how that statement above is not the most bigoted one in this entire thread? That's the same kind of mentality that caused the "Middle Kingdom" to fall far behind the "savages" in industrial and social development. 400 years of self-satisfied, self-congratulatory "we are so much more civilised" back slapping was all it took to give away 2000 years of cultural and technological advantage.

  16. #56

    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    some time ago, the car i was in was filtering into lane 3 of bukit timah road, there was a car far behind our car on lane 3, when he saw our car filtering into the lane in front of him, he quickly accelerated his car and tried to cut in front of us. he did not succeed in cutting in front of our car but hit our car instead. then he came out of the car, shouting at the top of his voice, demanding to call the police etc etc. the police came, saw there was no damage to public property and no one was injured, so told him that it was a private matter to be resolved among ourselves. so he LL had to inform his insurance. just as we were about to drive off, he came over to tap on the window and said, "you just go like that? don't you at least say goodbye?" wah, damn farny man, after all the fuss he kicked up earlier. his nationality? he was german.


  17. #57

    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    "you just go like that? don't you at least say goodbye?"
    I would have said" "c-bye" to him........

  18. #58
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by peppercrab1
    I would have said" "c-bye" to him........
    In German of course.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz
    looks like tis threads is turning into 'gd drivers vs bad drivers' thingy already...

    straying from original topic. FYI, i dun drive.
    It's about Yellow Man Vs Ang Moh.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: "Small island, small minds?"

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz
    looks like tis threads is turning into 'gd drivers vs bad drivers' thingy already...

    straying from original topic. FYI, i dun drive.
    It's about Yellow Man Vs Ang Moh.

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