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Thread: In America, hate speech is free speech

  1. #41
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by alfie View Post
    Any Europeans care to share ?
    To me, everything's a double-edge sword that should be done in moderation - which itself, is hard to define.
    Freedom of speech is by no means an American thing, imho. What is American about it is the noise that is created. The German constitution in its article 5 states clearly that everyone has the right to voice his opinion orally, in written manner and using images. This right is only limited by the other respective laws, the laws about protection of youth and minors and the laws about personal honour and reputation.
    In reality, there are not many court cases about freedom of speech. But this might be caused by the different legal system we have. There are no options to sue a person for astronomical sums into bankruptcy. Damages must be proven, which is a tricky thing when it comes to reputation and honour.
    Culturally, different opinions are accepted and expression of diversity. Even if it is hard to swallow for a few, the bar is high to ban opinions and voices. And sometimes it is hard for many to deal with the opinions of a few. We have learned from the past what is means if a small group dictates what is right and wrong. The result were >40 million casualties from all over the world.
    EOS

  2. #42
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Freedom of speech is by no means an American thing, imho. What is American about it is the noise that is created. The German constitution in its article 5 states clearly that everyone has the right to voice his opinion orally, in written manner and using images. This right is only limited by the other respective laws, the laws about protection of youth and minors and the laws about personal honour and reputation.
    In reality, there are not many court cases about freedom of speech. But this might be caused by the different legal system we have. There are no options to sue a person for astronomical sums into bankruptcy. Damages must be proven, which is a tricky thing when it comes to reputation and honour.

    Culturally, different opinions are accepted and expression of diversity. Even if it is hard to swallow for a few, the bar is high to ban opinions and voices. And sometimes it is hard for many to deal with the opinions of a few. We have learned from the past what is means if a small group dictates what is right and wrong. The result were >40 million casualties from all over the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    The thing about Freedom of Speech is maybe it is best to keep one's mouth closed sometimes...

    Actions speak louder than words.

    Talk is cheap.

    It's meaning I feel is rather 'alien' or fully appreciated by many in Singapore if not many parts of Asia where it's misrepresented, misused, suppressed or we find foolish folks wanting to throw that away thinking little of it's real and at times potent value. Especially when bad things happens and it's the avenue to get the word out to other people or world who might listen and possibly react to it. Granted there will always be white noise of nonsense intermixed with the truth but anyone can always filter out what's right or wrong rationally. But the good it does far outweigh not having the right to speak your mind.

    I believe truth can always stand up to criticism and total scrutiny without fear and regret. If you don't like it, don't listen, change the channel or click to another webpage. Learn to agree to disagree.

    To shut your criticizers down forcefully by threats, demeaning outcry, violent killing, sacking, voting or abusing authoritarian suppression... eg instead of countering with reasons and factual proof just goes to show how weak one's belief/argument really was. And thus resort to extreme measures to win or silence the criticizers' argument unfairly because you are not able to defend it or worst a truth one's trying hard to squash or cover up. If one's truly wronged, there are legal avenues and laws in place to protect you, clear your name or whatever. Sue them if you are so right or wrongly defamed if you feel so strongly about it.

    Freedom of Speech gives everyone the right to, yes unfortunately, express views that can be right or wrong or sensitive. That's where one uses CRITICAL THINKING or least common sense to see thru the white noise and smoke screen to differentiate bullsh*t from truth. And not be swept up by emotion and long held biases and prejudices. If you intend to pursuit or defend your idea of truth to the end, be warn, be prepared to accept that the final truth could run counter to your own. If you are not willing to accept that rightfully, best you leave it to the expert then to burst your own happy bubble world you live in or an example to prove their belief right.

    Like Nikonzen said, "maybe it is best to keep one's mouth closed sometimes...". This works both ways, the one that expressed and the ones who took offense. If you fear what your commentary or ideology you want to share will be met with counter arguments that you can not accept then don't say anything to begin with. Keep it to yourself. You also have the freedom to not say anything.

    There is a saying, 'History is written by the Victor' and never the whole truth especially about the conquered. Without that freedom, no one will ever know what really happen.

    You just don't know YET how important that right is to the common people till one day it is totally gone or taken from you. There are already signs of that happening. There are always limitation to freedom of expression but that does not mean we need to cast that in stone what can or can not express. In general, Freedom of Speech for me is a term that represent the spirit of the virtue good it protects and it's worth preserving or adopted. If anyone want to do wicked things, you think limiting Freedom of Speech is going to stop them? If any authority want to do bad, taking away that right would be the first thing they limit or take away? I want to see freedom given to those with righteous intent a voice to be heard for example. Words has no effect unless they carry truth. So why is anyone afraid of it?

    Sometime beyond our own personal outlook and self interest, we need to understand that there is bigger picture happening beyond our door. Sometime we are too trusting, complacent over time and leaving the thinking to other that when something happens, you are totally unprepared to save yourself. Who is really controlling our lives, our money, our future, our direction, how transparent is transparent..etc. I treat Freedom of Speech like a watchdog. Better I heard it barking at everyone that comes near my property then without one to warn me to look outside to find a robber trying to break into my house. World's history is full of examples of good turning bad and vice visa. Just cause it is 2015 does not mean all the worst things of humankind like tyranny, corrupt practices, cheats and religious zealots has gone completely out of fashion in Singapore.

    Anyway, that's me....Just saying.

    As for American, I think Freedom of Speech is under attack in many ways and taken hostage in recent years by social media. Thanks to the internet, at the speed of light, sharing common ideal and commentaries is almost instantaneous. Good and bad. This brought about more weird radical social justice warriors who become narcissistic keyboard warrior spreading or bully people base on view or expression they can throw a victim card at. From speech crime we now also have THOUGHT CRIME. Which some of these weird people are saying.. that just for thinking about it in your head is already wrong. Seriously? heheh I think a lot of the topic on these will not pass well in Clubsnap and will be shut down if we bring out all the sensitive stuff that is going wrong pertaining to this topic happening the US and slowly finding their way here or other places in the world. 2016 US election will really be an interesting one. Sure wish Jon Stewart was still going to be around to cover it before he retires.
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