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Thread: In America, hate speech is free speech

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default In America, hate speech is free speech

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-...b_7207012.html

    This sets out clearly the position of the Americans. I just hope they won't try to impose their values on us - although a number of locals here apparently already infected with their ideas and sees them as the ideals of all humanities.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Do you also know where the Freedom of Speech comes from and why it is so important and emphasized?
    EOS

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    Moderator nitewalk's Avatar
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    Default

    I suggest TS to read up on freedom of speech on Wikipedia. Simple enough for layman to understand.

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    So you guys saying hate speech is important and should be emphasized?

    I guess I am not being clear here... I am not saying there should be no freedom of speech. But rather, the issue is whether hate speech should be given the same status as other forms of speech.
    Last edited by UncleFai; 6th May 2015 at 04:28 PM.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    So you guys saying hate speech is important and should be emphasized?
    In which way did I give you this impression?
    Your words reflect a negative impression about the topic (using "infected"), therefore I recommended checking the history of Freedom of Speech. Without this understanding, no hasty judgement should be done about what is hate speech, regardless which media calls it this way.
    EOS

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    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Freedom of speach does not qualify you to say anything under the sun. Freedom only allows you to speak up responsibly.

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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech


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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Freedom of speech in US constitution (First Amendment) allows for the people to say anything they want against the government and the state without any reprisal nor consequence. If it is an individual not in a governmental capacity or non-government organization that is targeted, that individual or organization has every right to sue for slander and defamation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom..._United_States
    The First Amendment to the United States Constitution codifies the freedom of speech as a constitutional right. The Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791. The Amendment states:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Although the text of the Amendment prohibits only the United States Congress from enacting laws that abridge the freedom of speech, the Supreme Court held in Gitlow v. New York (1925) that under the incorporation doctrine, the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits state legislatures from enacting such laws.
    Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and by many state constitutions and state and federal laws. The freedom of speech is not absolute; the Supreme Court of the United States has recognized several categories of speech that are excluded from the freedom, and it has recognized that governments may enact reasonable time, place, or manner restrictions on speech.

    Criticism of the government and advocacy of unpopular ideas that people may find distasteful or against public policy are almost always permitted. There are exceptions to these general protections, including the Miller test for obscenity, child pornography laws, speech that incites imminent lawless action, and regulation of commercial speech such as advertising. Within these limited areas, other limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as rights for authors over their works (copyright), protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons (restrictions on fighting words), or the use of untruths to harm others (slander). Distinctions are often made between speech and other acts which may have symbolic significance.

    Despite the exceptions, the legal protections of the First Amendment are some of the broadest of any industrialized nation, and remain a critical, and occasionally controversial, component of American jurisprudence
    Last edited by daredevil123; 6th May 2015 at 07:39 PM.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    Freedom of speach does not qualify you to say anything under the sun. Freedom only allows you to speak up responsibly.
    And exactly this term of "responsibly" is a loophole, imho. It provides a convenient lever for any government to define the meaning of 'responsible' for their own purpose and agenda and to silence voices selectively.
    I read somewhere the phrase: A mature and developed democratic society is capable to handle and endure all sorts of opinions, however inconvenient, uncomfortable or annoying it might be for certain individuals or groups.
    EOS

  10. #10

    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Interesting discussion.

    Clubsnap got freedom of speech? Can this platform support it?

    Tread carefully. One should always be careful when discussing or hosting sensitive topics. Reputation, career and fortune, and sometimes freedom can go up and down in one posting.

  11. #11

    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    As a whole, I don't think our society is ready for 'free speech', not that it truly exists anywhere.

    Just looking at the TS' post, I see the sort of misunderstanding or distortion that leads to bad feelings (or worse), not conducive to free speech -

    "This sets out clearly the position of the Americans" - No, it does not. It is one writer's opinion. Individually, American's agree, disagree or partially agree to varying degrees.

    "I just hope they won't try to impose their values on us" - how in the world would they do that? Conquer us? Even then, you'd then be free to disagree with their government, by their own rules. Influence, yes. Unless we go the DPRK way.

    "infected with their ideas" - eh, "infected"? Yes, ideas can be infectious, but this seems to imply those that think otherwise are somehow sick. I hope that's not what you meant -- it sounds like a medieval tactic

    You are of course entitled to your opinion, I'm just exercising my right to free speech here. Regarding the bit about 'hate speech' and 'taboo' religious areas -- yes, we're not ready for it (not just Singapore). BUT I do look forward to the day when we can amicably disagree over anything without the knives coming out!

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    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    And exactly this term of "responsibly" is a loophole, imho. It provides a convenient lever for any government to define the meaning of 'responsible' for their own purpose and agenda and to silence voices selectively.
    I read somewhere the phrase: A mature and developed democratic society is capable to handle and endure all sorts of opinions, however inconvenient, uncomfortable or annoying it might be for certain individuals or groups.
    No matter what law, people will twist and turn them. Even in USA do you truly believe in free speach? We are talking of basic principle in law but how it is being interpreted? It is another story we can never resolve it. That is life and being human.

    American BS only works with naive people. They have their strength but plenty weakness too.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ALFREDC View Post
    Interesting discussion.
    Clubsnap got freedom of speech? Can this platform support it?
    Free speech refers to speaking in public and towards government and administrative entities as described and quoted above:
    Criticism of the government and advocacy of unpopular ideas that people may find distasteful or against public policy are almost always permitted.
    ClubSNAP is a private forum. It has its own rules named Terms of Service to which you have agreed to adhere at the point of your registration. These rules can impose further limits as to what is accepted and permitted to be posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by ALFREDC View Post
    Tread carefully. One should always be careful when discussing or hosting sensitive topics. Reputation, career and fortune, and sometimes freedom can go up and down in one posting.
    We moderators have a watchful eye on all postings and their compliance to the terms of service. Everything beyond this point is not within the moderators scope or concern. Everybody acts here as private person in his/her own name.
    EOS

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    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    America seems to be becoming a land where everyone has a 'right' to do anything they please. I wish my fellow countrymen would quit asserting their 'rights' so much already...I'm just saying

    Huffington is a propaganda machine BTW (like many MSM organizations in the USA). My opinion.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

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    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    America seems to be becoming a land where everyone has a 'right' to do anything they please. I wish my fellow countrymen would quit asserting their 'rights' so much already...I'm just saying

    Huffington is a propaganda machine BTW (like many MSM organizations in the USA). My opinion.
    Yes Huffington is not a lone i that. Almost all the news medias are like that.. And now there is such a thing a THOUGHT CRIME. Where just thinkig about it is enough to say you are guilty. My concern is more about how this will start to rub off locally here especially certain radical left wing BS.

    I thihk you forgot... DEA who is now confiscating money from anyone they can deem a suspect that is using that money to buy drugs and not have to return it even when found not guilthy or wrongful arrest. Wonderful. heheh..
    A good photo's 45% you, 45% practice & 10% equipment. A bad photo share the same ratio.

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    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Currently there is an attempt to wash Asset Forfeiture laws off of the books and in some places this has been accomplished. It is definitely backlash by an ever increasingly agitated citizenry. Many things are going on in America today. Have you heard NSA is being reeled in maybe?

    The political machine and corporate lobbyists are so firmly entrenched now I think it will be difficult to wrest control from them. I will say this for sure..there are Americans who are trying to just that. I think since JFK days our country is being held hostage by nefarious people and now they are beginning to lose their grip. We shall see.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 12th May 2015 at 07:40 AM.
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    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Hi Nikonzen... since you are the only American in this thread...

    Would like to know are you a supporter of gun control ?? Or a diehard NRA supporter ??

    I was watching a documentary about US parents buying their 4yrs old hunting rifles powerful enough to kill a wild boar... while I believe that US citizens should have small amount of guns for home protection, largely due to the large amount of armed criminals in US (unlike SG who nearly doesn't have any public owning firearm)... isn't it abit crazy to arm a 4yr old ??

    What is your view about gun ownership ??

    Thxs....

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Hi Nikonzen... since you are the only American in this thread...

    Would like to know are you a supporter of gun control ?? Or a diehard NRA supporter ??

    I was watching a documentary about US parents buying their 4yrs old hunting rifles powerful enough to kill a wild boar... while I believe that US citizens should have small amount of guns for home protection, largely due to the large amount of armed criminals in US (unlike SG who nearly doesn't have any public owning firearm)... isn't it abit crazy to arm a 4yr old ??

    What is your view about gun ownership ??

    Thxs....
    The funny thing is, gun crime happens the least from hunting families who have handled guns all their lives. Go figure...

    I am a member of the NRA, signed up during my time in the USA. Though I do not agree with all the die hard NRA fans, but still, the freedom to bear arms is written into the Constitution of USA. No way it can be removed. I do support the control some states have on automatic weapons as well assault rifles.

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    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    The funny thing is, gun crime happens the least from hunting families who have handled guns all their lives. Go figure...

    I am a member of the NRA, signed up during my time in the USA. Though I do not agree with all the die hard NRA fans, but still, the freedom to bear arms is written into the Constitution of USA. No way it can be removed. I do support the control some states have on automatic weapons as well assault rifles.

    I've not been to USA... but have been to Australia and New Zealand and could understand why people would feel safer owning guns in country's that has wide open spaces, where your nearest neighbors could be a 25mins drive from you.

    IMHO, a family of 4 (2 adult + Children/Teens) with 2 handguns (9mm type), 1 pump action shotgun and maybe 2 bolt action hunting rifles for 'hunting' would be reasonable. But in some documentary I've seen... a family of 5 owns enough firearms to armed a small platoon of soldiers from some 3rd world country

    Rights to Bear Arms have become the rights to own an armory...

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  20. #20
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: In America, hate speech is free speech

    Here is my view on gun ownership...

    I received my first 'gun' as a ten year old boy...a Daisy BB gun not a pellet rifle. Killed so many birds with it I just am ashamed. Shot my sister in the ass once and then shot myself in the finger to keep her from telling on me...regret that also. First gun I ever shot was a 410 single shot bolt action shotgun given to me by my grandfather and still held for me by my mother. That was also very early maybe 11 or 12. Always under strict adult supervision. Then after the teenage years a whole slew of guns came my way...everything from 'bee stinger' 22 25 and 32's pocketable to AK-47 Norinco made in China..kick ass craftsmanship BTW don't ever let anyone tell you made in China is BS because it is not true. 30.06 WW1 era rifle sporterized with scope used by my PT boat driving grandpa in WW2. I have a good buddy actually a friend of my father's who turned me onto shooting HK full autos and one time I shot a silenced Ruger Mark II loaded with subsonic short cases with xtra long lead nose bullet to make cartridge a long rifle...all you could hear was the action of the slide. I do not hunt animals and have not ever hunted animals with a gun besides the mentioned birds. Now I shoot strictly with camera. I have not kept any guns in my home since the kids were born. Anyone who gives a four year old a gun is a moron and should not have neither guns nor children in my book. One set of grandparents do keep guns in the house they are in a safe however...the other set have them put away due to the grandchildren. This grandparent shoots bows and arrows and does live blade training Aikido with oldest boy instead. Guns are ever present in my whole story...the one gun I do have in my house is an old Crosman pellet rifle...at twenty feet I am a natural born killer with it. One shot to the eye and you are toast.

    I believe a big problem with our police forces (and citizenry) nowadays is that they face a dangerous armed society. I would not want to be a policeman in America nowadays. I'm glad we have guns because knives would be crazy bloody.

    As double d 123 says it is a way of life here. It came about because of the wild west frontier thing. You had to hunt to survive even in recent times.

    All that being said I would gladly give up my right to bear arms to live in a place such as Singapore. Guns are fun to target shoot and fun to fondle like our cameras sort of. I have experienced them so they are not that big a deal to me. They are not toys. They must be respected.

    I commend your founding father for how he dealt with such issues in your country.

    I really would like to have a Norinco 84 S and about 10K rounds of ammo for it!

    With modern day 3D printers no government will be able to stop a person from getting a gun. The ammo will be the problem in the future.

    I now tell my children not to hunt it is to easy to go buy steak at Wal Mart...if you must hunt be stealthy and practice your skills...and then try to get the shot...with a camera!

    Guns are for killing...try not to kill...I have been told it is not something you want to mess with.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 12th May 2015 at 08:40 AM.
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