View Poll Results: Will you go to a paid ClubSNAP-organised mass gathering?

Voters
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  • Yes - but only if it is absolutely, totally free

    11 14.67%
  • Yes - I am willing to part with $5 of my hard-earned dosh

    18 24.00%
  • Yes - and I can afford to pay $10 for the priviledge of meeting like-minded ppl

    25 33.33%
  • Yes - and I will gladly pay $20 to get to know my fellow members

    15 20.00%
  • No - I am an anti-social geek

    6 8.00%
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Thread: Would members be interested in ....

  1. #41

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    Ho, not a very good start...

    Isn't clubsnap about photography, gatherings, sharings, chit-chats? Since when a group of mates thinking of gathering together required so much questions? No one pay a cent to the moderators for scanning the posts anyways. (Not sure about that tho ) Yet they are here almost everyday replying our postings...
    ( At times, I was wondering if they get a bot to do that )

    You like the ideas, join in the fun, else just sit quietly and read the postings, that's simple forum rules. We don't need an auditor anyway. I'll rather treat it like donating some funds to keep the fun going. We can't always rely on BK and food courts, that reminds me of centrepoint kids gathering around to blow some whistles. (woohoo.... my childhood....)

    It's always good to know some new friends of the same interest. AT least you know who to call, visit, bugged, email, sms, when you have doubts in getting a filter. OR someone you can ask, question, tagged along with if you are thinking of earning $15000 by taking some nice merlion shots.

    But I doubt you can get to anywhere if you are always having doubts with your friends. That's pretty sad...

    It's real life, boy, learn how to get along with others. It's pretty a pain to see somone getting flamed by almost everyone. It's always good to ask questions, but first of all, think of why and how to ask it.

    It's just photography....
    Last edited by togu; 20th October 2002 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #42

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    Originally posted by Wolfgang

    ..........

    Trust me when i say that alot of people like Darren, Simon, Bluestrike, AdamGoi, Megaweb, Keito, Tomshen etc etc etc (the list goes on and on) do try their utmost in making the new comers feel at home, taking the initiative to say hi first, greeting them with a warm handshake and a smile (in fact, most of us do)

    ..........

    Say Hi, handshake and a smile....it's called the "Making new friends 3 in 1 package" Reminds me of the first day in army... heh

    You miss out the "hola, I'm togu" part...

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Another idea ...

    Originally posted by Darren
    ... how about if we organise a Bikini Babe Glamour Photography Tutorial at the same time/venue.

    Perhaps a couple of Bikini Babes for the guys and a couple of Hunks for the gals ....

    wonder how the guys will look like in a bikini

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Re: Another idea ...

    Originally posted by eadwine


    wonder how the guys will look like in a bikini
    Eadwine, why don't you turn up in a thong and we will let you know?
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Another idea ...

    Originally posted by Wolfgang


    Eadwine, why don't you turn up in a thong and we will let you know?
    yeah baby yeah!!

  6. #46
    JaDe
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    Default

    Paying for a place of our own to chat in is DEFINITELY better than being in a place where other run their business and slowly we might become a nuisance to the society...
    Well all odds are on u...
    =)

  7. #47

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    Odds are on me ? I don't think so. There are no odds anyway. In the end, you guys are def more than capable enough to carry it out without any problems coming from me. What I think is, many in this forum have problems getting 'no' for an answer. btw, i dun't give a **** about the mocking tone.

    Let me explain myself. I see the great potiential in SEEDs where people get together, make friends and learn new things. But why not develop from there? Why the need to get so ambitious, so sudden ? You guys need a breakthough to the Singapore market isit?

    Unless u tell me a straightforward answer that it is impossible to share skills and information in SEEDs. How big scale you guys plan this to be ? Bigger than a BK restaurant?

    All the best to the management in carrying this out. All I feel is that all these "ambitious" events and it's hidden costs are greatly unjustified. Sure, another of my views stem from the fact that (yes, photog is expensive) almost everything in ClubSNAP is about $$$. The day you get together, it's about SHOPPING. You can improve your photography skills till a threshold until you UPGRADE to a better camera. To that guy who constantly reminded my that ClubSNAP is a free forum with volunteers taking up their time to moderate and help other people - yar right.. if you guys feel gian to spend that kind of money, go ahead. So it means that you guys plan, so we members better appreciate? Well done, I'll appreciate it more if you can actually think about making this highly highly affordable.

    Sure, money makes the world go round. You guys spent $4k on cameras. Rental for an events hall doesn't even come close to half the price of your camera. Of course you won't even bat an eyelid when it comes to spending a 'little' money.

    Prudence is the key.

  8. #48

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    Shawn,

    If you were organising a BBQ sessions for your friend, you would collect some mount of money per person to contribute to the food, drinks etc right? Or do you always pay from your own pocket even for a group of 50 people?

    I think it's just fair that some costs are needed to do something OTHER than just a SEED. And of course, SEED is and will always be free... and everybody is welcome to join us...

  9. #49
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    Originally posted by shawntim
    Odds are on me ? I don't think so. There are no odds anyway. In the end, you guys are def more than capable enough to carry it out without any problems coming from me. What I think is, many in this forum have problems getting 'no' for an answer. btw, i dun't give a **** about the mocking tone.
    Once more, you have digressed and failed to address the issue at hand. As for not being able handle "no" being an answer, i am can gladly assure you that it's not the case. The problem lies with the way you said it. The fact that you're so full of angst and well, reading back on your posts in this thread, i only see resentment, anger and some unjustified comments. (I'll gladly point them out for then agian, why insult your intelligence if you already know so full well?)

    Originally posted by shawntim
    Let me explain myself. I see the great potiential in SEEDs where people get together, make friends and learn new things. But why not develop from there? Why the need to get so ambitious, so sudden ? You guys need a breakthough to the Singapore market isit?

    Unless u tell me a straightforward answer that it is impossible to share skills and information in SEEDs. How big scale you guys plan this to be ? Bigger than a BK restaurant?
    Yes, you see great potential. Good for you. Then come down. Talk to the people. Make new friends and share your knowledge. I honestly don't see you doing any of that, so if that's the case, it's even more unfair for you to comment upon how it's being done. You want to make a difference? Then come down and make the difference. Sitting behind the screen and playing the arm chair general will get you no where.

    Yes, it's possible to share knowledge and skills in BK or the foodcourt. But we are talking abt 20 people, or more occupying a sizable amount of space. And anymore than that, sometimes, it gets a little tight. You don't get to walk around, hold your drink, chit chat informally, without distraction or distracting others. Once more, allow me to extent an invitation to you to attend a SEED and see for yourself. (Come to think of it, have you been down to a SEED before?)

    Originally posted by shawntim
    All the best to the management in carrying this out. All I feel is that all these "ambitious" events and it's hidden costs are greatly unjustified. Sure, another of my views stem from the fact that (yes, photog is expensive) almost everything in ClubSNAP is about $$$. The day you get together, it's about SHOPPING. You can improve your photography skills till a threshold until you UPGRADE to a better camera.
    What hidden cost? You have yet to even come to realise that the issue of cost has yet to be confirmed and you start upon the issue of "hidden" cost? Everything about Clubsnap is about money?

    Don't delude or confuse yourself. This is a free forum. What cost? The only cost that will arise is the users/members of this forum who they, themselves CHOOSE to upgrade their equipment.

    To that guy who constantly reminded my that ClubSNAP is a free forum with volunteers taking up their time to moderate and help other people - yar right.. if you guys feel gian to spend that kind of money, go ahead. So it means that you guys plan, so we members better appreciate? Well done, I'll appreciate it more if you can actually think about making this highly highly affordable.
    No, i didn't ask you to "appreciate or else". What i am trying to bring across is the fact that if you like how things are done, well, good for you. And yes, even if it's a case where the money was willingly spent, or in your words, "feel gian to spend", so what?

    If you don't like it, you don't have to be a wet blanket. It's like the child who wasn't allowed to go out and sits home and sulks and then claim it would been boring to have gone out anyway.

    You'll appreciate more if who made what more affordable?

    The forum? it's free to start with.

    To make photography more affordable? Well, thats the point of SEED and the buy & sell sections where MOs are carried out to get higher discounts rates.

    I don't see you doing anything but moan and groan abt how expensive everything is. Come down to a SEED with a simple P&S camera with some shots. Trust me. They will still be some one who would take time out to comment on your shots and how to maximise the capabilities of that camera.

    Lastly, on your issue with prudence is key. Yes. prudence is a virture. But what has that has to do with someone who is trying to organise a party? Even if you wish to go to a company's D&D, you would still need to buy tickets for the refreshments and gifts. Even if someone organised a BBQ, the organiser would ask everyone to chip in a little to help defray the cost. What is wrong with that? What has that go to do with prudence?

    At the end of the day, how you are putting things across only reflect upon yourself and the attitude you have (misguided or otherwise).

    Go think about it.
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

  10. #50
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    Default

    hi, i guess shawntim just want to point out that economy is bad, if everytime the gathering (eg, SEED) we attend we need to pay for it, it's kind of waste of money (especially for those who save and use own money to study U! not everyone so lucky ler).

    honestly, i find u guys really like "aggressive" response, i feel that, when u expect people dun make aggressive comment, pls dun do it urself first. even people do it, u urself who dun expect aggressive comment also dun do it, at most ignore it pls. u know, fire always start from there....

    in this case what i saw darren is trying to organize kind of event in christmas, where i find it's kind of fun n enjoyable event, why not? so calm down n talk in peace?

    in fact i have the experience as what wolfgang said, maybe i am too shy to talk to people, and i should take initiative more, that's what we need to learn right? please dun scare newbie away~

  11. #51
    ClubSNAP Admin Darren's Avatar
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    Default

    Wow! Away from the Net for the weekend, and this thread just plain explodes!

    Heard and read all the posts and of course, me (and the rest of the CS admin) are really glad for the feedback - whether good or bad.

    Originally posted by shawntim
    [B]Odds are on me ? I don't think so. There are no odds anyway. In the end, you guys are def more than capable enough to carry it out without any problems coming from me. What I think is, many in this forum have problems getting 'no' for an answer. btw, i dun't give a **** about the mocking tone.
    Glad that you acknowledge the capabilities of the admins and contributing members . Contrary to what you believe "No" is an acceptable answer in this forum, after all we are not always right, but "No" when said certain tones may very well raise the hackles of some as you may have seen here. All we ask is for a reasonable explanation and feedback.
    Let me explain myself. I see the great potiential in SEEDs where people get together, make friends and learn new things. But why not develop from there? Why the need to get so ambitious, so sudden ? You guys need a breakthough to the Singapore market isit?
    Yes, we do see the great potential in SEED, but whereas the SEED is a regular outing, all we were looking for was interest in holding a larger event to cater for a larger proportion of members. And honestly, this event is really developed from the ideas of SEED albeit on a larger scale.
    Unless u tell me a straightforward answer that it is impossible to share skills and information in SEEDs. How big scale you guys plan this to be ? Bigger than a BK restaurant?
    Based on my experience (btw, when was the last time u were at SEED?), it is not impossible to share skills & information, but once the group gets beyond 20-30 ppl, it gets a bit tough. In any case, this Gathering (to give it a name) is not meant to replace SEED, it is to supplement it. And since we are anticipating a lot more than 20-30 ppl, it would be good to have it in a bigger venue (after all, if i was the manager at BK or foodcourt, i definitely wont want a large group of ppl congregating there).
    All the best to the management in carrying this out. All I feel is that all these "ambitious" events and it's hidden costs are greatly unjustified. Sure, another of my views stem from the fact that (yes, photog is expensive) almost everything in ClubSNAP is about $$$. The day you get together, it's about SHOPPING. You can improve your photography skills till a threshold until you UPGRADE to a better camera. To that guy who constantly reminded my that ClubSNAP is a free forum with volunteers taking up their time to moderate and help other people - yar right.. if you guys feel gian to spend that kind of money, go ahead. So it means that you guys plan, so we members better appreciate? Well done, I'll appreciate it more if you can actually think about making this highly highly affordable.
    Can you pls clarify what you mean by "hidden costs" - in fact, if you are willing, pls share your time to organise this so that you can see exactly what the money will be (if the event is held) used for. I am sorry, but I have to stress that for a majority of members, ClubSNAP is a FREE forum. And we organise events and outings out of our own time and to a certain extent, for our own enjoyment - whether other members appreciate or not, that is their own prerogative, but from feedback that we get, seems like most members do appreciate what we are doing. As for making the event (I assume the event since access to the forum is already free, can't get any more affordable than that ), highly highly affordable, lets put it into perspective - a member spends hundreds (more likely thousands) of dollars into this hobby called photography, but cannot part with $5 (the cost of a roll of film) or $10 (the cost to develop that roll of film) to attend a group gathering of like-minded ppl to share and grow ...

    I guess no matter what the admins or contributing members say or write, if it really bugs ppl that this event is being held and there is a cost associated with it, then so be it -

    ClubSNAP cannot please everyone all of the time, but if we can give enjoyment to MOST people MOST of the time, then ClubSNAP will have done its job.
    ©Copyright 2002 ClubSNAP
    Last edited by Bluestrike; 21st October 2002 at 10:35 AM.

  12. #52
    ClubSNAP Admin Darren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chenwei
    hi, i guess shawntim just want to point out that economy is bad, if everytime the gathering (eg, SEED) we attend we need to pay for it, it's kind of waste of money (especially for those who save and use own money to study U! not everyone so lucky ler).

    honestly, i find u guys really like "aggressive" response, i feel that, when u expect people dun make aggressive comment, pls dun do it urself first. even people do it, u urself who dun expect aggressive comment also dun do it, at most ignore it pls. u know, fire always start from there....

    in this case what i saw darren is trying to organize kind of event in christmas, where i find it's kind of fun n enjoyable event, why not? so calm down n talk in peace?

    in fact i have the experience as what wolfgang said, maybe i am too shy to talk to people, and i should take initiative more, that's what we need to learn right? please dun scare newbie away~
    chenwei, we do not intend to start charging for SEED - it will once and forever remain true to its calling, which is a bi-weekly free get-together for like-minded ppl.

    This event ("The Gathering" - heh heh sounds like something from the Highlander movies) is envisaged as an end-of-the-year, informal "party" or get-together so that more members can mingle and get to know each other.

    One of the shortcomings of SEED is that a lot of ppl would like to go, but because its held on a weekday night, ppl with family or work considerations can't make it.

    So we see this "Gathering" as an opportunity for other members to get-together. Unfortunately, we may well have to charge members since the logistics involved will be more complicated - can't just meet in a foodcourt or Burger King.

    But we will see how this turns out - after all, this thread is just to gauge response.

  13. #53
    ClubSNAP Admin Darren's Avatar
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    Smile One more thing ...

    ... lets all discuss in a civilised, cool & level-headed manner.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Darren, perhaps you could start by gathering the general responses to this event first before any monetary issue kicks in?

    That being said, I don't see why the big fuss over this. Nobody is obliged to go, nobody is obliged to pay anything.

  15. #55

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    Hi all,

    Thanks Darren and willyfoo for the clearing up.

    I've never been to a SEED before, but from some of the moderators' unmoderated tone at times, it totally puts me off. From my initial postings in this forums, I've come to realized that a newbie has no place to question another's composition, colour etc.. especially if we have many experts here. We cannot expressed doubts at composition when another expert has already said it works without receiving ridicule. Colour theory cannot win experienced eyes, equipment also cannot win. Then I talk/ask so much for what?

    I tried to learn by being the devil's advocate. I certainly do not believe that many of the shots posted in this forum are worth praises or a 2nd look, even with the experienced photogs at times. However, I do not know enough to realize why it just doesn't work.

    Of course, I still had to put up with newbies claiming to be experts. That is the worst. I do know some of my stuff. I know very well that Clubsnap changed their nick's description from the old "Armed with 35mm SLR" to "senior member" shortly after I criticized someone who tried to pass off as an expert.


    Ok, back to the topic.
    Thanks Darren and willyfoo for the clearing up.

    It takes a while for you guys to justify that the costs will be well planned, well-spent. Since you guys felt a bigger, 'self-owned' place would be more condusive for learning, then go ahead! Hands-ons experience is always the best and most practical to learn.

    As for hidden costs, you should know very well that there will always be hidden costs, here and there, one-liners that appear on the receipts, last minute purchases etc. To think that the cost for such an event is ONLY food and rental could only be self-delusionary.

    to the Clubsnap management.

  16. #56

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    Originally posted by shawntim
    I've never been to a SEED before, but from some of the moderators' unmoderated tone at times, it totally puts me off. From my initial postings in this forums, I've come to realized that a newbie has no place to question another's composition, colour etc.. especially if we have many experts here. We cannot expressed doubts at composition when another expert has already said it works without receiving ridicule. Colour theory cannot win experienced eyes, equipment also cannot win. Then I talk/ask so much for what?
    No, there is a place for newbies. You have to back your theory up on why a picture does or doesn't work for you. You can't just say, "The picture works for me." and leave it like that. That absolutely doesn't help the photographer or the posters at all. I comment on pictures on and off too, and those who know me know that I take some of the worst pictures ever. It's just that I know what to exhibit and what not to.

    I tried to learn by being the devil's advocate. I certainly do not believe that many of the shots posted in this forum are worth praises or a 2nd look, even with the experienced photogs at times. However, I do not know enough to realize why it just doesn't work.
    Yes, I agree with you on that point. I just look at them, shrug and before moving on, try to figure out why it doesn't work for me.


    Of course, I still had to put up with newbies claiming to be experts. That is the worst. I do know some of my stuff. I know very well that Clubsnap changed their nick's description from the old "Armed with 35mm SLR" to "senior member" shortly after I criticized someone who tried to pass off as an expert.
    You being a veteran of other forums would know that this is a problem not just limited to ClubSNAP as well. However, some people being thin-skinned as they are, do not take kindly to being corrected although I do agree (with references to other threads) that the tone does matter a lot too. Still, we get those who insist that they're always right.


    Ok, back to the topic.
    Thanks Darren and willyfoo for the clearing up.

    It takes a while for you guys to justify that the costs will be well planned, well-spent. Since you guys felt a bigger, 'self-owned' place would be more condusive for learning, then go ahead! Hands-ons experience is always the best and most practical to learn.

    As for hidden costs, you should know very well that there will always be hidden costs, here and there, one-liners that appear on the receipts, last minute purchases etc. To think that the cost for such an event is ONLY food and rental could only be self-delusionary.
    Some of us are in or have experience in the events management line, and we do have a rough idea of what are the labours involved in this. While I know that there's no way to fully reassure people that the money won't be spent on frivolous stuff, I do hope that the members would be able to judge us kindly on our past records of organisation of SEEDs, and even the setting up of the forums, that we'll be able to pull this off nicely.


    (Sorry I had to snip off the smilies. The forums just weren't allowing me to post with so much images! #$%@#$%) to the Clubsnap management.
    Thank you, and all these is not possible without the members giving their effort as well. (:

  17. #57
    ClubSNAP Admin Darren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by shawntim
    As for hidden costs, you should know very well that there will always be hidden costs, here and there, one-liners that appear on the receipts, last minute purchases etc. To think that the cost for such an event is ONLY food and rental could only be self-delusionary.
    .... there goes the funding for that EOS1Ds and 400mm f/4 DO lens .... d@mm ....

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    KIDDING ONLY OK!!! ....

  18. #58

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    Heh, It's good to be ambitious

    That's how things works, for eg.
    http://www.photoart-sg.com


    They start off from a small kopitiam gang too.
    Last edited by togu; 21st October 2002 at 06:20 PM.

  19. #59
    JaDe
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    Sorree if i've ever offended anyway...maybe your anger leads everyone into a misunderstanding of u being arrogant...
    Maybe rather than paying..we can meet up in a big field...lolz..
    well....cool down...and sorree dude !

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