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Thread: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

  1. #1

    Default No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Hi guys...

    I wrote something about life of being a professional photographer...

    Here is the link and hope it offer a glimpse into what is the trade...

    http://www.tomato.sg/blog/no-one-ins...-photographer/

    Regards,

    Hart

  2. #2

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    I think that the biggest difference / jump between a 'hobbyist' and a 'professional' photographer is that the person suddenly has to deal with customer acquisition and sales, which is a very 'business' thing versus a photography thing, and unless he or she can accept and work with that, it is best to remain 'hobbyist'
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  3. #3

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Hi guys...

    I wrote something about life of being a professional photographer...

    Here is the link and hope it offer a glimpse into what is the trade...

    http://www.tomato.sg/blog/no-one-ins...-photographer/

    Regards,

    Hart

    Hi! Hart,

    I follow your link and read what you have written.

    In every trade we do, there are up and down. To keep our career or business going, we need to try our best to do the best. I love photography and wouldn't it be lovely if we can enjoy what our career as a photographer provides for us. One may study accounting and become an accountant but will he/she enjoys her work? Do it because it is your career whether you like it or not. A photographer gets to enjoy his shoot and at the same time photography also provides a good career with good income. If you do the right way.

    "I believe no one in their sound mind would be inspired to be a professional photographer."

    Why not?

    So "No one inspired to be a professional photographer"?

    You should say "Many of us inspired to be a professional photographer." There are many of us who inspired to be one but due to various reasons they are not getting there. Let the upcoming budding photographers who wants to turn professional be filled with hopes.

    "Furthermore, what you LOVE doing is photography but in order for you to do that 10% of what you love… you actually have to do 90% of things that offer you the 10%. Its crazy isn’t it?"

    I don't think it's crazy. Photography is just like falling in love with someone. You will take the good and bad of the person you love. We shouldn't be afraid to make things work. Right?

    Just my thoughts on sharing what's on my mind.



    kaikeong

  4. #4

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaikeong View Post
    Hi! Hart,

    I follow your link and read what you have written.

    In every trade we do, there are up and down. To keep our career or business going, we need to try our best to do the best. I love photography and wouldn't it be lovely if we can enjoy what our career as a photographer provides for us. One may study accounting and become an accountant but will he/she enjoys her work? Do it because it is your career whether you like it or not. A photographer gets to enjoy his shoot and at the same time photography also provides a good career with good income. If you do the right way.

    "I believe no one in their sound mind would be inspired to be a professional photographer."

    Why not?

    So "No one inspired to be a professional photographer"?

    You should say "Many of us inspired to be a professional photographer." There are many of us who inspired to be one but due to various reasons they are not getting there. Let the upcoming budding photographers who wants to turn professional be filled with hopes.

    "Furthermore, what you LOVE doing is photography but in order for you to do that 10% of what you loveÖ you actually have to do 90% of things that offer you the 10%. Its crazy isnít it?"

    I don't think it's crazy. Photography is just like falling in love with someone. You will take the good and bad of the person you love. We shouldn't be afraid to make things work. Right?

    Just my thoughts on sharing what's on my mind.



    kaikeong
    Indeed.

  5. #5

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaikeong View Post
    Hi! Hart,

    I follow your link and read what you have written.

    In every trade we do, there are up and down. To keep our career or business going, we need to try our best to do the best. I love photography and wouldn't it be lovely if we can enjoy what our career as a photographer provides for us. One may study accounting and become an accountant but will he/she enjoys her work? Do it because it is your career whether you like it or not. A photographer gets to enjoy his shoot and at the same time photography also provides a good career with good income. If you do the right way.

    "I believe no one in their sound mind would be inspired to be a professional photographer."

    Why not?

    So "No one inspired to be a professional photographer"?

    You should say "Many of us inspired to be a professional photographer." There are many of us who inspired to be one but due to various reasons they are not getting there. Let the upcoming budding photographers who wants to turn professional be filled with hopes.

    "Furthermore, what you LOVE doing is photography but in order for you to do that 10% of what you love… you actually have to do 90% of things that offer you the 10%. Its crazy isn’t it?"

    I don't think it's crazy. Photography is just like falling in love with someone. You will take the good and bad of the person you love. We shouldn't be afraid to make things work. Right?

    Just my thoughts on sharing what's on my mind.



    kaikeong
    Thanks for replying Kaikeong,

    What you say is exactly my intention in the post... I hope most people think it is not and do something to better their life... totally agree with you. To do well in photography, it isn't crazy, but possible with hard work.

    But then again, why many people and including yourself think, Photography is Oversaturated?



    Regards,

    Hart

  6. #6
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    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post

    But then again, why many people and including yourself think, Photography is Oversaturated?



    Regards,

    Hart

    Perhaps I would like to chip in some thoughts on this. Back in the film era the term 'A professional photographer is indeed a
    professional photographer'. Their works were indeed admired with the highest respect for it's composition ,lighting , exposure and subject matter augmented by superb dark room work where there's no room for errors. This also anchored their desire to be a pro
    where income were generated as means of lively hood. It's also one's passion that decide their career path. Photography hobbyists
    were a plenty but the professional works by a true pro out weighed them and are in demand.

    Not so in this digital era where any one with a DSLR can proclaim that he's a pro. Back in those days it's 'one shot one kill' but
    now perhaps '20 shots one kill' if you know what I mean. With budget conscious business nowadays perhaps the coined term 'Photography is Oversaturated?' does indeed be true. Too much choices if I may say so. Just my 2cts.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeisser View Post
    Perhaps I would like to chip in some thoughts on this. Back in the film era the term 'A professional photographer is indeed a
    professional photographer'. Their works were indeed admired with the highest respect for it's composition ,lighting , exposure and subject matter augmented by superb dark room work where there's no room for errors. This also anchored their desire to be a pro
    where income were generated as means of lively hood. It's also one's passion that decide their career path. Photography hobbyists
    were a plenty but the professional works by a true pro out weighed them and are in demand.

    Not so in this digital era where any one with a DSLR can proclaim that he's a pro. Back in those days it's 'one shot one kill' but
    now perhaps '20 shots one kill' if you know what I mean. With budget conscious business nowadays perhaps the coined term 'Photography is Oversaturated?' does indeed be true. Too much choices if I may say so. Just my 2cts.
    I donno why people keep wanting to compare with old days film, nothing much changes. Digital makes things faster cheaper and available to the masses. It raises the bar and it is just natural. It also brings on new demands and difficulties that the common camera owner can't handle unless he is an experienced prfoessional in the field

    Back in the day you take a polaroid to get an idea of how your lighting ratio goes before you load up the intended film. Thats why there are polaroid backs for pro Hasselblad. Thats the way for instant feedback and checking. Small format sports cameras like the Nikon F5, the peak camera during film days, can also achieve 7 to 8 FPS, still faster than many digital cameras nowadays, if the news and sports photographers dont need that kind of frame rate or shoot that much exposures, the camera makers wont produce such cameras. IIRC I read in Bambi Cantrell's book she mentioned during her film wedding photography days she shoots over a thousand frames per wedding - pretty much like what we do today. A common number for a Nat Geo photographer was 20 rolls of film per day, do math its 700+ shots, not very far from today's numbers without machine gunning.

    Digital days we use photoshop, film days the film were also heavily post processed and enhanced in the dark room, just that people don't know. Dodge and burn, drawing in fake catchlights in the eyes, patching and reshooting to get a second negative with the repatched work etc. Back in the 60s my father was a charcoal artist and he could make a charcoal painting look like a black and white photo, he worked in KL as a professional retoucher.

    In this day of digital world it is still one shot one kill. Sometimes speed of the photo is the essence and you dont have time to edit in post production. Shoot this hour and the next hour client wants the photo for press release and 2 hours later the photos are in the brand's press kit, social media pages, etc.
    Last edited by sjackal; 18th July 2015 at 12:52 PM.
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  8. #8
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    I know of some full time photographers are driving taxi now.

    it is no good to be a full time photographer, because let say when you sales is $50000.00, after minus all the expenses, probably your net profit is less than $10000.00, that is before you pay your CPF and your income tax (Dude, you are tax on the trade income, not nett profit!!)

    it is good to be a part time photographer, because all your necessity is already covered by your day job, and your company pay CPF for you too, the extra income from photography is really... you know, is an extra income, when you did not registered it as a business. No tax No CPF to pay. and you can take the assignments when you are happy, not happy than go for holiday.


    so the choice is yours.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    I donno why people keep wanting to compare with old days film, nothing much changes. Digital makes things faster cheaper and available to the masses. It raises the bar and it is just natural. It also brings on new demands and difficulties that the common camera owner can't handle unless he is an experienced prfoessional in the field

    Back in the day you take a polaroid to get an idea of how your lighting ratio goes before you load up the intended film. Thats why there are polaroid backs for pro Hasselblad. Thats the way for instant feedback and checking. Small format sports cameras like the Nikon F5, the peak camera during film days, can also achieve 7 to 8 FPS, still faster than many digital cameras nowadays, if the news and sports photographers dont need that kind of frame rate or shoot that much exposures, the camera makers wont produce such cameras. IIRC I read in Bambi Cantrell's book she mentioned during her film wedding photography days she shoots over a thousand frames per wedding - pretty much like what we do today. A common number for a Nat Geo photographer was 20 rolls of film per day, do math its 700+ shots, not very far from today's numbers without machine gunning.

    Digital days we use photoshop, film days the film were also heavily post processed and enhanced in the dark room, just that people don't know. Dodge and burn, drawing in fake catchlights in the eyes, patching and reshooting to get a second negative with the repatched work etc. Back in the 60s my father was a charcoal artist and he could make a charcoal painting look like a black and white photo, he worked in KL as a professional retoucher.

    In this day of digital world it is still one shot one kill. Sometimes speed of the photo is the essence and you dont have time to edit in post production. Shoot this hour and the next hour client wants the photo for press release and 2 hours later the photos are in the brand's press kit, social media pages, etc.
    All your pointers are 100% correct but my 2 cts worth is about 'Photography is Oversaturated?'. The pros of new are still doing what
    the pros old were doing back then. My take here is that being the digital era any one with the knowledge in digital technology
    and with photography interest can blend in easily whether experienced or not. Instant reviews of images taken..no good samullah shoot
    again for example but not in the old days. So it played perfectly for businesses on a budget ' hey we have choices' to save cost
    and that's what am trying to share.

    Perhaps I am being nostalgic.
    Last edited by Zeisser; 18th July 2015 at 05:53 PM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Feeling business over-saturated is one sided. If you think and believe it is, then it is. But if you think it is not, then it is not.

    With digital technology, sure, the learning curve is steeper, it is quicker to see what you do right or wrong, but the issue is if you unconsciously incompetent, meaning, you don't know what you don't know.

    Film or digital, the competition is out there. Nothing change.

    If you can't get amazing shots, at least you are very good in bringing in the business so you can stay in business and feed your family.

    But life is too short to just work for money.

    So is it crazy or what?

    Regards,

    Hart

  11. #11

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Oversaturated? Yes and No.

    Oversaturated and overflowing at the level where people are 'pretending to be pro photographers, wannabes and tryin-to-bes'. In other words, rock bottom feeders of the food chain.

    The higher up you are, or the deeper you are in your niche, the less saturation you will see.

    A clear example is your cousin asking if you can shoot her dog and her at the park for free or $5 for 2 hours.

    Vs

    Pitching for an industrial job shooting oilrigs, their workers from top to bottom, involving aerial photography, chartering planes and underwater equipment.

    Example A may have millions of these photographers, example B may only have a few companies doing it in the whole wide world.

    Find your niche or find your style.

  12. #12

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    Oversaturated? Yes and No.

    Oversaturated and overflowing at the level where people are 'pretending to be pro photographers, wannabes and tryin-to-bes'. In other words, rock bottom feeders of the food chain.

    The higher up you are, or the deeper you are in your niche, the less saturation you will see.

    A clear example is your cousin asking if you can shoot her dog and her at the park for free or $5 for 2 hours.

    Vs

    Pitching for an industrial job shooting oilrigs, their workers from top to bottom, involving aerial photography, chartering planes and underwater equipment.

    Example A may have millions of these photographers, example B may only have a few companies doing it in the whole wide world.

    Find your niche or find your style.
    But then again, there are way more people that would ask a photographer to shoot their family with dog then Shooting Oil rigs...

    At the end of the day, how you get the right clients that suits what your vision is important... not everything is about how much you charge or about money.

    Just need to create a niche that you are good at and find people that like and would purchase what you produce is the key of staying in the business.

    Regards,

    Hart

  13. #13

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    But then again, there are way more people that would ask a photographer to shoot their family with dog then Shooting Oil rigs...

    At the end of the day, how you get the right clients that suits what your vision is important... not everything is about how much you charge or about money.

    Just need to create a niche that you are good at and find people that like and would purchase what you produce is the key of staying in the business.

    Regards,

    Hart
    I'll take the high end spectrum any day over the mundane.

    Not everything its about prices and money, but very often the best and most unique and exclusive experiences comes from the higher level jobs. Also one should not take of things as a vertical bottom to top scale, things can move horizontally as well.

  14. #14

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    It all boils down to which one is more important to you - Volume or Quality, and whether you want more jobs for less or less jobs for more.

  15. #15

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    I'll take the high end spectrum any day over the mundane.

    Not everything its about prices and money, but very often the best and most unique and exclusive experiences comes from the higher level jobs. Also one should not take of things as a vertical bottom to top scale, things can move horizontally as well.
    Understand that...

    What I believe is simple, if what I love doing, touched people and makes people happy, why not doing it more to allow more people to be touched and happy? Why are we stopping ourselves only at one level? There are people who love to serve at different level and it is part of my job to ensure these people are properly train to offer the similar level of experience.

    Like yourself, I prefer the high end spectrum which I work extremely well and continue to operate as such. I also run another company who do the similar but offer their service to people who isn't looking for high end work.

    Not everyone wants to eat at michellin star restaurant everyday but they exist for people who understand the finest thing in life and wanted to get the experience as life is more empowering when you can.

    If life is about unique experiences, why not offer it to a lot more people?

    Regards,

    Hart

  16. #16

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Deunamist View Post
    It all boils down to which one is more important to you - Volume or Quality, and whether you want more jobs for less or less jobs for more.

    I think it boils down to what I believe what I love to do, offer to people. Why not both if you can and still make people happy?

    Of course, you can choose one if you would like to...

    Regards,

    Hart

  17. #17

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Understand that...

    What I believe is simple, if what I love doing, touched people and makes people happy, why not doing it more to allow more people to be touched and happy? Why are we stopping ourselves only at one level? There are people who love to serve at different level and it is part of my job to ensure these people are properly train to offer the similar level of experience.

    Like yourself, I prefer the high end spectrum which I work extremely well and continue to operate as such. I also run another company who do the similar but offer their service to people who isn't looking for high end work.

    Not everyone wants to eat at michellin star restaurant everyday but they exist for people who understand the finest thing in life and wanted to get the experience as life is more empowering when you can.

    If life is about unique experiences, why not offer it to a lot more people?

    Regards,

    Hart
    Indeed, I must admit once in a while I also itchy hand do other shoots out of my field for interest/hobby and friends but mainly to stay fresh.

  18. #18

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    Indeed, I must admit once in a while I also itchy hand do other shoots out of my field for interest/hobby and friends but mainly to stay fresh.
    Of course. after all, we are in it because we love it, so got to keep that.

    Hart

  19. #19

    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Yes of course, you must enjoy what you do!

  20. #20
    Senior Member Dfive's Avatar
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    Default Re: No One Inspired to be a professional photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Deunamist View Post
    Yes of course, you must enjoy what you do!
    I like a cold beer... time to become a PROFESSIONAL DRINKER... lol
    See my WTS items.. :) Any sales is by meet up face to face, payment is cash only.

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