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Thread: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

  1. #1

    Default Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    If anyone thinks they can stay anonymous and download movies, beware..
    They will find you:
    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...b/1771572.html

    Dallas Buyers Club downloads: M1 passed customer details to law firm on court order

    SINGAPORE: Following a court order, M1 said it has disclosed customer information to a local law firm over alleged illegal movie downloads.
    In response to queries from Channel NewsAsia, an M1 spokesperson said on Wednesday (Apr that it disclosed customers’ names, NRIC numbers and addresses to Dallas Buyers Club LLC following a High Court order in January.
    The telco was responding to reports that customers who allegedly made illegal downloads of the movie Dallas Buyers Club had received letters asking for compensation. The letters reportedly claimed that M1 had received a court order to reveal subscribers’ information to a law firm representing Dallas Buyers Club LLC.
    “M1 did not provide personal data of the affected customers to Dallas Buyers Club LLC when it first requested for the information,” a spokesperson for the telco told Channel NewsAsia on Wednesday.

    “Dallas Buyers Club LLC subsequently applied for a hearing at the High Court. After hearing the parties, the Assistant Registrar of the High Court granted an order compelling M1 to disclose the names, NRIC numbers and physical addresses of the affected customers.
    “M1 has accordingly complied with this order."
    STARHUB 'IN PROCESS OF COMPLYING'
    Separately, StarHub on Wednesday told Channel NewsAsia that it had also received the High Court order.
    “We have received a High Court order to provide details of some customers based on particular IP addresses, and are in the process of complying with this court order,” said Ms Caitlin Fua, Assistant Vice-President of corporate communications at StarHub.
    StarHub added that it has engaged external litigation to act for the company, to "ensure that the plaintiff’s claim is properly assessed by the High Court".
    On Monday, internet service providers in Australia were forced to hand over the personal details of almost 5,000 users who were alleged to have shared the movie on online file-sharing networks such as BitTorrent. Similar action is being sought by Dallas Buyers Club LLC in the United States.

    The movie, made on a US$5 million budget, won Best Actor, Best Supporting Actor and Best Makeup at the 86th Academy Awards in 2014.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    They used the company Maverick Eye to locate these people. It's the same company that tried to access my NAS that stores my family photos and videos. This happened somewhere late last year. I found them out using the ip address I obtained from my server log. The ip address was located in US with the same company name. They somehow downloaded a big file to one of my directory, for what, I don't know since I used the default "admin" as username.

    I was alarmed when I sift through my log and promptly changed both my username and password.Furthermore I enabled DMZ so that I don't have problems playing certain online games and xbox. Disable that off too on my router.

    They tried to access it again countless of times (can see failed log in attempts) but to no success.The activity stops after a month. My main concern is for my personal photos and videos getting accessed. I setup my NAS to be able to access remotely especially when I go on holiday as well as backups of my work files and emails.

    I wonder if it's the same company as used by Dallas Buyers Club LLC. I've tried to sift through the log to find the ip address but too bad I can't find it anymore to reconfirm.

    As internet blurs state boundaries, how can local law protects our personal information as such. And my next question, is it illegal for them to hack someone's personal computer just to sift through for evidence?, though I respect IP rights of others.

    Anyway my allegations can be considered baseless as I have no more evidence but feel the need to inform CSers to better protect your PCs and NAS by not using the default username or password in case of a much more sinister character hacking your data.

    And to reiterate, don't download illegal content.
    Last edited by greenieadi; 8th April 2015 at 03:11 PM.

  3. #3
    Member Parka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by greenieadi View Post
    They used the company Maverick Eye to locate these people. It's the same company that tried to access my NAS that stores my family photos and videos. This happened somewhere late last year. I found them out using the ip address I obtained from my server log. The ip address was located in US with the same company name. They somehow downloaded a big file to one of my directory, for what, I don't know since I used the default "admin" as username.

    I was alarmed when I sift through my log and promptly changed both my username and password.Furthermore I enabled DMZ so that I don't have problems playing certain online games and xbox. Disable that off too on my router.

    They tried to access it again countless of times (can see failed log in attempts) but to no success.The activity stops after a month. My main concern is for my personal photos and videos getting accessed. I setup my NAS to be able to access remotely especially when I go on holiday as well as backups of my work files and emails.

    I wonder if it's the same company as used by Dallas Buyers Club LLC. I've tried to sift through the log to find the ip address but too bad I can't find it anymore to reconfirm.

    As internet blurs state boundaries, how can local law protects our personal information as such. And my next question, is it illegal for them to hack someone's personal computer just to sift through for evidence?, though I respect IP rights of others.

    Anyway my allegations can be considered baseless as I have no more evidence but feel the need to inform CSers to better protect your PCs and NAS by not using the default username or password in case of a much more sinister character hacking your data.

    And to reiterate, don't download illegal content.
    Offline laws apply to online laws as well.

    If it's illegal to steal your physical items like files and printed photos, it's illegal to steal them when they are in digital format.

    Hackers from overseas are the most scary because the law is not clear. As in those hackers are not located in our jurisdiction so we can't really do much.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    ST article today:

    THE copyright owner of Oscar-winning film Dallas Buyers Club may have an uphill task suing consumers here for having allegedly downloaded the movie illegally online, say lawyers.
    The biggest challenge is to identify the actual people who had infringed the film's copyright. Another reason cited is the high cost of a civil suit.
    A company of Hollywood producer Voltage Pictures, which owns the film rights, identified more than 500 Singapore Internet protocol (IP) addresses, from subscribers of the three major Internet service providers (ISPs) - Singtel, StarHub and M1 - where the movie was downloaded illegally.
    Voltage's company Dallas Buyers Club LLC has obtained a Singapore High Court order to compel all three ISPs to release the details of subscribers linked to the IP addresses in question.


    But the rights holder also needs to establish a link between an impugned IP address to a person," said lawyer Bryan Tan, a technology partner at Pinsent Masons MPillay.
    Establishing the link is tough because families share the same Wi-Fi connection, and as such, have the same IP address. Some Wi-Fi connections are also not secured and are freely accessed by anyone. "It is unclear whether the law will presume liability for the Internet account holder," said Mr Tan.
    Starting a class action suit is also a costly affair, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, for rights owners.
    "The cost is dependent largely on how many people are defending and the defence raised," said intellectual property lawyer Cyril Chua of ATMD Bird & Bird.
    Dallas Buyers Club, whose parent company Voltage has been on a global anti-piracy rampage, is represented by local law firm Samuel Seow Law Corporation here.
    In October last year, Singtel received a letter from Dallas Buyers Club's lawyers, alleging that some of Singtel's subscribers had illegally downloaded the film. It asked for the identities of some 150 subscribers.
    Singtel said it refused to provide the information to protect customers' confidential information. Even in court, Singtel said its lawyers questioned if the evidence provided by Dallas Buyers Club was "sufficiently detailed and clear" to support its claims of infringement.
    Dallas Buyers Club also made similar "pre-action discovery" applications at the High Court to force StarHub and M1 to release customer details.
    The film company succeeded in its application against all three ISPs.
    Over the weekend, Samuel Seow Law Corporation sent out its first batch of letters to Internet users here asking for a written offer of damages and costs within three days of receiving the letter. It is not known how many have responded to the letter.
    "Most cases of this nature are settled without commencing a court action or prior to a court assessment of damages," said Mr Lau Kok Keng, intellectual property lawyer at Rajah & Tann Singapore.
    Court proceedings are usually not pursued in cases of small-scale downloads as the real value of the infringement is only the price of a licensed movie download or a DVD, plus legal fees and investigation costs, he added.
    Alternatively, copyright holders can claim statutory damages, which can go up to $10,000 per title per person, under Singapore's Copyright Act.
    "It is awarded in circumstances where the rights owners cannot prove actual losses," said Mr Chua of ATMD Bird & Bird. But these damages have not been awarded against consumers so far, he added.
    A civil suit, if pursued by Dallas Buyers Club, could set the precedent for more of such lawsuits. But the consumer backlash may deter many from taking this route, said digital media lawyer Matt Pollins at Olswang.
    "Piracy is an emotive issue and if a large portion of the Internet community takes exception to you suing consumers, then that can be quite damaging for your brand," Mr Pollins said.
    "It is for this reason that the Recording Industry Association of America announced in 2008 that it would stop suing consumers directly."
    - See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/....kX5pDhvL.dpuf
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by petetherock View Post
    ST article today:

    The 3 telcos can provide the name of the ISP subscribers but it has nothing to do with the crime unless proven.

    This is one of the main reasons why people dare to download illegal softwares, movies, etc because the the plaintiff needs to prove that the account holder is actually the person downloading. You could be the subscriber of the ISP or service provider but someone else in your family is downloading illegal stuff from the Internet or your network is unsecured and being tapped by somebody else who in return download the illegal stuff.

    The plaintiff must be able to prove that the account holder is the real culprit.

    If the plaintiff loses the case, it will be a big blow to fighting piracy.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
    The 3 telcos can provide the name of the ISP subscribers but it has nothing to do with the crime unless proven.

    This is one of the main reasons why people dare to download illegal softwares, movies, etc because the the plaintiff needs to prove that the account holder is actually the person downloading. You could be the subscriber of the ISP or service provider but someone else in your family is downloading illegal stuff from the Internet or your network is unsecured and being tapped by somebody else who in return download the illegal stuff.

    The plaintiff must be able to prove that the account holder is the real culprit.

    If the plaintiff loses the case, it will be a big blow to fighting piracy.
    Not only tapping on your WiFi network. As I understand, it's also quite easy to spoof IP address and even MAC address. So someone could be downloading something on his own network but to everyone else, it's your IP and MAC address.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by brapodam View Post
    Not only tapping on your WiFi network. As I understand, it's also quite easy to spoof IP address and even MAC address. So someone could be downloading something on his own network but to everyone else, it's your IP and MAC address.
    Yes. That's why it is an uphill task for the plaintiff to prove the culprits.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    I'm guessing that eventually they will say it is a privilege to use their service???
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    So the copy right law is bigger than the human right and privacy law here in Singapore? How on earth can we allow others to hack into our computer and yet agree with them? Didn't they already broke the law?

    If they are so protective of their IP, go after those that share their IP on line. You cannot catch the thief then go after innocent people buying pre-owned item?

    Very disappointed with our telco. Hope one of those particulars being revealed will sue the telco Under PDPA. if they can get away, no need to worry of the PDPA anymore?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    So the copy right law is bigger than the human right and privacy law here in Singapore? How on earth can we allow others to hack into our computer and yet agree with them? Didn't they already broke the law?

    If they are so protective of their IP, go after those that share their IP on line. You cannot catch the thief then go after innocent people buying pre-owned item?

    Very disappointed with our telco. Hope one of those particulars being revealed will sue the telco Under PDPA. if they can get away, no need to worry of the PDPA anymore?
    I'm not sure how they did it, but no hacking is needed to obtain your IP address.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    So the copy right law is bigger than the human right and privacy law here in Singapore? How on earth can we allow others to hack into our computer and yet agree with them? Didn't they already broke the law?

    If they are so protective of their IP, go after those that share their IP on line. You cannot catch the thief then go after innocent people buying pre-owned item?

    Very disappointed with our telco. Hope one of those particulars being revealed will sue the telco Under PDPA. if they can get away, no need to worry of the PDPA anymore?
    I still don't see how they are going to prove that the user did download. having IP address doesnt mean anything.

    Unless they physically carry away the hardware and search HDD for the movie. But it seems impossible to do this. All 500 hardwares from 500 addresses? What about intrusion if privacy into HDDs?

  12. #12
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    The fact they intruded into another person private life is wrong. If they can do that then how much other stuff have they removed from you?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    The fact they intruded into another person private life is wrong. If they can do that then how much other stuff have they removed from you?
    There is no evidence that they did that. You can obtain the IP addresses of people who are downloading by simply connecting to the torrent swarm. In order for you to connect to others/others to connect to you, you need to announce your IP address. I could also generate a list of IP addresses of downloaders by starting the torrent and looking in the peers tab of the torrent client. Whether that is the real IP address or a fake one (VPN, proxy, spoofed IP etc.) is another story.

  14. #14
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by brapodam View Post
    There is no evidence that they did that. You can obtain the IP addresses of people who are downloading by simply connecting to the torrent swarm. In order for you to connect to others/others to connect to you, you need to announce your IP address. I could also generate a list of IP addresses of downloaders by starting the torrent and looking in the peers tab of the torrent client. Whether that is the real IP address or a fake one (VPN, proxy, spoofed IP etc.) is another story.
    I am not good with comp stuff. So if I happen to enter one of these sites but didn't download, they do know if you download or not without checking your comp? How do they know what was uploaded into you comp without checking the content? Good to understand this.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    I am not good with comp stuff. So if I happen to enter one of these sites but didn't download, they do know if you download or not without checking your comp? How do they know what was uploaded into you comp without checking the content? Good to understand this.
    You will only be in trouble if you upload (even if it's a tiny amount). I am not exactly sure how they determine whether you have uploaded. There are several ways to find out without hacking. For instance, if I wanted to manually generate a list, I could start the torrent, look in the peers tab and see who is uploading to me.

    Visiting a torrent site and downloading a .torrent file is not strictly illegal. At least that's what I interpret from this news article: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/sin...f-you-have-ill

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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    I am not good with comp stuff. So if I happen to enter one of these sites but didn't download, they do know if you download or not without checking your comp? How do they know what was uploaded into you comp without checking the content? Good to understand this.
    The Big Brother will know it by checking the finger prints on your computer keys.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    The Big Brother will know it by checking the finger prints on your computer keys.
    He will know what you want to download before you download it...advanced algorithm...then he will frame you if he wants.

    I'm not skeered!
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 15th April 2015 at 01:30 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Quote Originally Posted by greenieadi View Post
    They used the company Maverick Eye to locate these people. It's the same company that tried to access my NAS that stores my family photos and videos. This happened somewhere late last year. I found them out using the ip address I obtained from my server log. The ip address was located in US with the same company name. They somehow downloaded a big file to one of my directory, for what, I don't know since I used the default "admin" as username.

    I was alarmed when I sift through my log and promptly changed both my username and password.Furthermore I enabled DMZ so that I don't have problems playing certain online games and xbox. Disable that off too on my router.

    They tried to access it again countless of times (can see failed log in attempts) but to no success.The activity stops after a month. My main concern is for my personal photos and videos getting accessed. I setup my NAS to be able to access remotely especially when I go on holiday as well as backups of my work files and emails.

    I wonder if it's the same company as used by Dallas Buyers Club LLC. I've tried to sift through the log to find the ip address but too bad I can't find it anymore to reconfirm.

    As internet blurs state boundaries, how can local law protects our personal information as such. And my next question, is it illegal for them to hack someone's personal computer just to sift through for evidence?, though I respect IP rights of others.

    Anyway my allegations can be considered baseless as I have no more evidence but feel the need to inform CSers to better protect your PCs and NAS by not using the default username or password in case of a much more sinister character hacking your data.

    And to reiterate, don't download illegal content.
    Creepy they access your systems.... :/
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    Now they are saying our anti-piracy laws here are ineffective: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/sin...ti-piracy-laws

    THE studio behind a recent controversial move to demand damages from illegal downloaders has hit out at Singapore's anti-piracy laws, calling them ineffective.

    Voltage Pictures also defended its decision to give those accused of illegally downloading its Oscar-winning film, Dallas Buyers Club, three days to respond to its demand for compensation, saying that the seriousness of the issue required urgent attention.

    Last week, 77 M1 users were sent the demand letter which asked for a written offer of damages and costs, a move which sparked heated discussion on the Internet and social media.

    Mr Samuel Seow, the managing director of Samuel Seow Law Corporation, which represents Voltage Pictures, said that the studio decided to take the litigation route because it is the "only real option" available to copyright holders.
    Voltage would have been among the first to take advantage of Singapore's amended Copyright Act, which came into force in August last year, but it chose not to do so.

    Under the Act, copyright holders can seek a High Court order to get Internet service providers (ISPs) to block piracy websites. Before the revised law, content owners could not compel ISPs to block pirated content.

    "Website blocking can be easily circumvented using a VPN (virtual private network)... It is not an effective method of copyright protection," Mr Seow told The Straits Times.

    Most piracy websites also have "proxy" Web addresses, or alternative addresses, that can be entered into Web browsers to allow users to gain access to the blocked sites.

    This is why file-sharing site The Pirate Bay still remains accessible although it has been blocked in various jurisdictions, he said.

    "Given the seriousness of the acts, our client felt that three days were sufficient for the infringers to comply with the demand," Mr Seow said.

    Deadline extensions were given to those who requested them.

    But some lawyers here say that the time given to respond to the letters is too short.

    Mr Lau Kok Keng, intellectual property lawyer at Rajah & Tann Singapore, said: "It is an indication that the copyright owner wishes to exert maximum pressure on the alleged downloaders to offer monetary settlements quickly."

    Mr Lau, who represented local anime distributor Odex in a high-profile case in 2007 when it went after hundreds of illegal downloaders, said that a one-week notice is usually given.

    "There must be enough time for the letter to be received, read and understood by its recipients, and for them to obtain legal advice, if need be," he added.

    The letters sent out to alleged Dallas Buyers Club downloaders also did not state any compensation amount.

    Mr Lau also said that not stating the compensation amount could be an attempt to settle quickly with those with the least resistance.

    High-profile personalities are "less resistant" to settling quickly, to avoid any embarrassment or reputational damage, said Mr Lau.

    Voltage, which earlier denied accusations of profiteering by targeting consumers, said that more demand letters can be expected after Singtel and StarHub hand over customer details by April 27 and May 16 respectively, as ordered by the Singapore High Court.

    More than 500 Singapore Internet protocol addresses where the movie was downloaded illegally were identified.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Telcos reveal the names of those who download

    I don't agree with this sort of activity but it makes me wonder what the data says concerning illegal downloads of this movie worldwide. And to what length whatever authority would go (or be coerced to go) to get this information. Reminds me of Napster or something like that. How are these guys ever going to keep their content escaping into the net wilderness anyway? Seems like a futile project if you ask me. They go after the end user too and not the provider (or maybe them too) - I question the wisdom of that approach. Wouldn't it make more sense to go after original pirate distributors if it really was all about protecting copyright? Very interesting to say the least.

    So 500 addies times maybe 20 bucks per copy equals 10 grand...sounds like they are jumping over dollars to pick up a penny. Unless they think their DBC stuff or whatever is worth more than that??? There are other things in the world you know...like books. Wonder if they get it?
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 15th April 2015 at 03:39 PM.
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