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Thread: Two persons charged with sedition

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Two persons charged with sedition

    Quote Originally Posted by AixisOfJustice
    that's true what u said. it's so tragic & sad. just look at the muslims. just bcos of a few, all muslims are labelled as terrorists. may not be here but certainly in the western countries.

    anyways, what do they call CSers out there?
    It's all based on ignorance, not wanting to know (the truth/facts about the 'other'), believe in 'hearsay' rather than investigating yourself......Hearsay can be so distructive! In all aspects of life.......

    Education is the answer I believe, not just shutting down blogs, or sites, it just fuels more anger, hate......


    HS

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Two persons charged with sedition

    I am against racism....

    But it exist... (look at Harricane katrina)...

    So... do we stick our heads in the sand like it does not exist or deal with it?
    The internet is a relatively new medium. Its a double edged sword. Giving it complete freedom (the pioneer days) will gain you diversity and innovation. Control it and it becomes less creative, less vibrant and stifling. So the question is how much control.

    Blogs used to be used for personal use... mostly people keeping in touch with friends and family. I think its only here that its becoming a big news (hitting newspapers and all) becoz the readership is open to everyone and can potentially reach out to many people through word of mouth. Its also something which is hard to control. Every blogger is his or her own editor. So do they voice out whatever they really feel or do they edit it for public consumption? I think this is a question that LOCAL bloggers will face in days to come...

    I am sure 60% of Singaporeans do not know what a blog is before the media started to talk about it. Used to be read by netizens only... hahahaa!

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Two persons charged with sedition

    I really think it should not be a 1 or 0, black or white issue. I see racism, or hate-inciting, to be a continuous, rather than a discrete process. I do think that there are cases and situations where forceful action to curb hatred, brain-washing, or deliberate and wanton spreading of ideas which are harmful to society, should be legitimate. For example, if Hitler's party in 1933 had been cut in the bud because of their racist policy against Jews, and was forcefully stamped out, it might have saved the world much suffering. That is an extreme example, but I think it illustrates that under some circumstances, forceful suppression can be justified (or perhaps some disagree? Do you think the nazi party should have been allowed to spread their racist propaganda against the Jews?)

    Since we are not really aware of the nature of the racist comments (at least I'm not) I do not know whereabouts in the spectrum of racism and hate-spreading this case lies. Therefore I do not feel justified in saying aye or nay. perhaps if someone could tell what the nature of the racist remarks are, we might have a clearer view on this. If the person was saying that we should kill all Muslims or Jews or Chinese or whites in order to have a utopian society, then yes, I do feel some form of governmental action against this is justified. However I do take some of the points that closing down and stifling the views is not the best way to go about it. I think the 2 guys should be questioned in a court or other open forum and their views scrutinized and evaluated, and if they are really shown to be racist and discriminatory, to have them shot down publically, in debate, or through cross-examination in court.

    Let me ask those who think that goverment action against the individuals was not justified: what do you think of those muslim "clerics" who preach hatred in their mosques and recruit suicide bombers? should such actions be tolerated in the name of free speech or forbidden? What about if they preach hatred but do not recruit suicide bombers? What if they simply point out the evil things that america does against muslims? Hate-incitement and racism is not discrete, 1 or 0. It is continuous and a person can be anywhere in the continuum.
    Last edited by toasty; 14th September 2005 at 04:17 PM.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Two persons charged with sedition

    Quote Originally Posted by toasty

    Let me ask those who think that goverment action against the individuals was not justified: what do you think of those muslim "clerics" who preach hatred in their mosques and recruit suicide bombers? should such actions be tolerated in the name of free speech or forbidden? What about if they preach hatred but do not recruit suicide bombers? What if they simply point out the evil things that america does against muslims? Hate-incitement and racism is not discrete, 1 or 0. It is continuous and a person can be anywhere in the continuum.
    First: Hitler was not only against Jews, also against mentally instable, gypsies, etc.. There were also millions non-jews killed, but somehow not much talk about them.

    Distortion of Islam by those clerics:
    That's why there is a need for the mainstream muslim clerics to educate the people the true teachings, this is in my view the only way to get the young not to join those 'clerics'......work through persuasion.

    I have heard on the TV, where they were interviewing 5 of these 'clerics': they allowed killing of non-believers! But when the Al-Qaeda started killing muslims as well, they stopped helping them.......I think these so called clerics forgot that the main Jihad is about fighting your 'ego', and when defending Islam one is not even permitted to kill innocents, not to killl trees, plants, animals, etc, only those who attacks Islam. I understand that in Islam one is to have respect non-believers too..........

    Just closing internet discussions is not a long term solution......it is part of the solution if it is really getting out of hand.

    I understand there is alot of frustrations among many, and this fuels hatred. So, on the other hand, the west should also look at themselves what makes these people hate them?

    The main thing for these clerics is that they want to set up a worldwide Islamic state, which is I think not feasible, cause they way they do it is not democratic, but by force.

    The western influence is very strong now in technology, science, way of life, some in the Islamic world may not like it, but that's the current situation. In another 100 years it may be the chinese way of life, technology that is pervasive throughout the world, who knows? The Islamic way of life, science, technology, art was very pervasive a few hundred years ago. Things come and go, that's they way of life............

    Hong Sien

  5. #45

    Default Re: Two persons charged with sedition

    Reminder to all CS'ers, quoting CS Kopitiam guidelines,

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Goi
    Posting Guidelines for Kopitiam sub-forum
    • While the Kopitiam sub-forum is not actively moderated, members can be assured that moderators are watching like hawks waiting for prey. Posts/threads which violate ClubSNAP's basic tenets (Click HERE! - for those who didn't memorise upon registering) will be deleted without hesitation or explanation.
    • In addition to the basic tenets, although Kopitiam is meant as a catch-all area for things not related to photography, posts/threads which are:
      1. religious,
      2. political,
      3. racist;
      in nature or can be construed as such will also be removed without prejudice.
    Contributed by Darren Lau.
    from

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=15393

    It's stated clearly that all threads discussions about religion, political and racism regardless of whatever intentions, or reasons, will be removed.

    Thread hereby closed.

    Moderator
    Kopitiam
    Last edited by togu; 14th September 2005 at 11:10 PM.

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