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Thread: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

  1. #41
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Actually when someone were to said he is a true blood or true blue " this or that" It is usually a statement of total faith or dedication to something. A believe that is deeper then nationality of origins, race...etc. For example, someone who, against his own usual self serving interest for his own cause or another is now willingly to give up his own belief, time, worth and even his life for the common cause... IS a true blue or blood of that cause or country. There is no local or foreign in that equation.

    To me that is where I draw the lines. I don't care where you are from. The idea is you are here, you know what is expected of you here, you do good and follow the law of the land, you learn to assimilate to the cultures here and give up your bad old ways and make an effort to contribute to the joint success and survival of the land or company or whatever.. That is what being a true blue is about.

    Other then that.. really? Why should I call it that? If something happens and you are the first to run? That is not one I would call a True Blue. You got to be there for not only the good times, you got to be there for the bad as well. Hard ting to do even for some Singaporeans I see or worst, turning traitor. Even in peace time we can see that. Instead of stepping up to help the nation, you profit from it in the name of politics or corporation.
    Last edited by sammy888; 12th March 2015 at 09:36 PM.
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  2. #42
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post

    Yes, these are the definitions from our government too. No such thing as second class because we worked based on meritocracy.

    That is the primary reason why a lot of foreigners wanted to migrate to Singapore for the past 20 years.
    Nothing to do with meritocracy. Citizenship in almost all countries are the same. In most countries there are no 2nd class citizens. The only reason why many foreigners come to sg is simply because the govt open the doors and make it simple.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 12th March 2015 at 09:45 PM.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Nothing to do with meritocracy. Citizenship in almost all countries are the same. In most countries there are no 2nd class citizens. The only reason why many foreigners come to sg is simply because the govt open the doors and make it simple.
    Corrections: ....... make it convenient
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  4. #44

    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
    Comrade, do you cross reference to the fertility and mortality rates at the same time? Like I said earlier, 3.3m Citizens are not purely local borned; almost 1m of them are foreigners converted Citizens. Our government is very smart in playing with statistics. They won't tell you exactly how many foreigners are converted to Citizens.
    They have released some figures from time to time.

    Our intake of new citizens increased from an average of 8,200 per year between 1987 and 2006, to about 18,500 per year in the last 5 years.
    http://population.sg/introduction/


    This leads us to approx estimate of 300K new citizens between 1987-2013?

    1987 to 2006 = 8,200 X 20 years = 164,000
    2007 to 2013 = 133,575
    132,975 + 164,000 = 297,575 new citizens

    Someone please check the math, mine is terrible.

  5. #45
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    No wonder data are so confusing. You will never get to feel what was presented. Not only for population but for most matters that you don't wish to share clearly. Next time my boss ask for something, I give him some graphs. Haha

  6. #46
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Of course. If we can't convince them, we will confuse them.

  7. #47
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    I smell some true blue bigotry here...
    What is the point of defining 'true blue Singaporean'? Obviously it serves as basis for some sick discussion that seem to have one purpose: trying to justify that a certain group of people currently living in Singapore shall be denied rights or worse: shall be sent away. DD123 was right: the same crap was used by someone in Germany, beginning in late 1920s and resulting in a war with close to 50 million casualties.
    There's a famous phrase, attributed to Sir Winston Churchill (although there's no proof that he really coined it): "Trust only those numbers that you have tweaked for yourself." One can also say: As long as the baseline and criteria for any statistical analysis are not laid open, any diagram can show anything.
    Last edited by Octarine; 13th March 2015 at 09:53 AM.
    EOS

  8. #48

    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    I think "true blue Singaporeans" is a local term coined to generally describe those who were born, raised and contributed a lot to Singapore. I do feel there is some inaccuracy and biased attitude in the way the term seems to suggest. For eg, foreigners who become Singaporeans are not necessarily excluded from being called "true blue" if they too have that sense of patriotism and contribute their efforts in making Singapore a better place.

    However, having said that, I also have to defend why many out there are feeling "true blue" Singaporeans deserve more respect than those who are not. Needless to say, we all know how the government has admitted too many foreigners here than the infrastructure can generally cope. Some of them have even received their PR status and citizenship too easily. There is nothing wrong with this group, except that in it, there are also many who cannot speak or understand proper English; they don't learn our local culture and instead of educating them, our PM is telling us we should accommodate and integrate with these foreigners and new citizens; they receive benefits similar to many "true blue Singaporeans" who were born and raised here. Nothing could be more insulting than that.

    I have a colleague from China whose job can be easily done by many locally born Singaporeans. He need not serve NS. He worked here for several years and brought his wife from China also to work here. They are now both Singaporeans and have 2 kids. They successfully balloted for a 4-room Punggol BTO flat on first try, while I know many "true blue Singaporeans" failed balloting for more than 5 times. I don't hate my colleague. But I believe many Singaporeans take offence at the fact that the SG government took care of these foreigners first over the locals. The sentiments are understandable.

    As for those who say no one in Singapore is really "true blue" as some of our parents or at least, our ancestors are from elsewhere (eg Malaysia or China), I think you are missing the point. When our forefathers or parents came to Singapore to work back then, they started from scratch. They also searched for jobs the usual way and were not given any preferential treatment. They were not employed because there was a need to run businesses at lower costs while at the detriment of those who had been born in Singapore.

    Now contrast with the situation the government has created today. Foreigners are given citizenship and employed in droves because the government's main priority was to ensure the economy is driven up exponentially. This is sometimes done at the expense of the locals. Now, who wouldn't be frustrated? To make the wound deeper, "true blue Singaporeans" are told to accept lower salaries because foreigners can always replace them. All this happened while prices of public housing became uncontrollably (at least in the past many years) unaffordable due to lack of supply. Many Singaporeans got laid off. PMETs lost their jobs in their 40s or 50s and had to drive taxis to cope with raising their families. This happened because various companies figured it would be cheaper to employ foreign labour instead.

    For those of you who don't believe the above, you have been living in a very enclosed environment. Get out there and talk to more people. Taxi drivers are one of the best sources for real stories. I have a friend who has been disadvantaged by foreign labour precisely because of the above. To make matters worse, instead of standing by their own fellow Singaporeans, we have pro-government citizens who commented that if you are replaced by foreigners, it only means you are not good enough. You should "upgrade your skills" so that you can be competitive. Nothing can be more lame than that.

    Why not admit all the top scholars from 3rd world countries and let them into Singapore then? Your kids can be at the bottom 30-40th placing in the class. When they grow up, they can work as cleaners, while the scholars can be given citizenship and get paid less than normal Singaporeans, while taking up CEO positions in MNCs here. How do you feel?

    Everything can be done for specific reasons, but there must be reasonable limits to balance the system.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    I hear true blue Singaporeans are a rare breed and near extinction. Wonder how they look like? Like this?

    Name:  Avatar.jpg
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    Last edited by Kit; 13th March 2015 at 12:33 PM.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    IDK but one thing is for sure IMO...what I see looking at you bros photography and the way you all tend to carry yourselves...you have something very special. Your fathers did not toil so hard for it to be taken lightly.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreq View Post
    I think "true blue Singaporeans" is a local term coined to generally describe those who were born, raised and contributed a lot to Singapore. I do feel there is some inaccuracy and biased attitude in the way the term seems to suggest. For eg, foreigners who become Singaporeans are not necessarily excluded from being called "true blue" if they too have that sense of patriotism and contribute their efforts in making Singapore a better place.

    However, having said that, I also have to defend why many out there are feeling "true blue" Singaporeans deserve more respect than those who are not. Needless to say, we all know how the government has admitted too many foreigners here than the infrastructure can generally cope. Some of them have even received their PR status and citizenship too easily. There is nothing wrong with this group, except that in it, there are also many who cannot speak or understand proper English; they don't learn our local culture and instead of educating them, our PM is telling us we should accommodate and integrate with these foreigners and new citizens; they receive benefits similar to many "true blue Singaporeans" who were born and raised here. Nothing could be more insulting than that.

    I have a colleague from China whose job can be easily done by many locally born Singaporeans. He need not serve NS. He worked here for several years and brought his wife from China also to work here. They are now both Singaporeans and have 2 kids. They successfully balloted for a 4-room Punggol BTO flat on first try, while I know many "true blue Singaporeans" failed balloting for more than 5 times. I don't hate my colleague. But I believe many Singaporeans take offence at the fact that the SG government took care of these foreigners first over the locals. The sentiments are understandable.

    As for those who say no one in Singapore is really "true blue" as some of our parents or at least, our ancestors are from elsewhere (eg Malaysia or China), I think you are missing the point. When our forefathers or parents came to Singapore to work back then, they started from scratch. They also searched for jobs the usual way and were not given any preferential treatment. They were not employed because there was a need to run businesses at lower costs while at the detriment of those who had been born in Singapore.

    Now contrast with the situation the government has created today. Foreigners are given citizenship and employed in droves because the government's main priority was to ensure the economy is driven up exponentially. This is sometimes done at the expense of the locals. Now, who wouldn't be frustrated? To make the wound deeper, "true blue Singaporeans" are told to accept lower salaries because foreigners can always replace them. All this happened while prices of public housing became uncontrollably (at least in the past many years) unaffordable due to lack of supply. Many Singaporeans got laid off. PMETs lost their jobs in their 40s or 50s and had to drive taxis to cope with raising their families. This happened because various companies figured it would be cheaper to employ foreign labour instead.

    For those of you who don't believe the above, you have been living in a very enclosed environment. Get out there and talk to more people. Taxi drivers are one of the best sources for real stories. I have a friend who has been disadvantaged by foreign labour precisely because of the above. To make matters worse, instead of standing by their own fellow Singaporeans, we have pro-government citizens who commented that if you are replaced by foreigners, it only means you are not good enough. You should "upgrade your skills" so that you can be competitive. Nothing can be more lame than that.

    Why not admit all the top scholars from 3rd world countries and let them into Singapore then? Your kids can be at the bottom 30-40th placing in the class. When they grow up, they can work as cleaners, while the scholars can be given citizenship and get paid less than normal Singaporeans, while taking up CEO positions in MNCs here. How do you feel?

    Everything can be done for specific reasons, but there must be reasonable limits to balance the system.
    Having seen so many such cases, I can relate to example you have cited here regarding your China colleague.

    One encounter last year had this PRC chap telling me that Singapore needs many babies to celebrate SG50, hence he and his missus had it planned that they conceive their firstborn, here this year. In doing so, they are expecting the Singapore Government to grant them PR status. .....very simple and convenient if you ask me (but with a bit of planning i thrown in of course). And yes, their jobs could be done by many Singaporeans ... easily.

    Btw, they have a private apartment which they have rented out to supplement their income and neither of them pays income tax.
    Last edited by Zenten; 13th March 2015 at 01:24 PM.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post
    Having seen so many such cases, I can relate to example you have cited here regarding your China colleague.

    One encounter last year had this PRC chap telling me that Singapore needs many babies to celebrate SG50, hence he and his missus had it planned that they conceive their firstborn, here this year. In doing so, they are expecting the Singapore Government to grant them PR status. .....very simple and convenient if you ask me (but with a bit of planning i thrown in of course). And yes, their jobs could be done by many Singaporeans ... easily.

    Btw, they have a private apartment which they have rented out to supplement their income and neither of them pays income tax.
    ".. suplement their income.."

    Uhmm they have income but they don't pay income tax? Can show me how? I also want

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    Btw, last i read in a NTUC insurance pamplet, there are 1.3 million + PRC here alone.. not counting others.. now that is something that caught me off guards 2 years ago.
    1.3M plus plus PRCs alone in 2013 and the our government is still packing them in? Wow..... just how many FTs do we really need?
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentSeth View Post
    ".. suplement their income.."

    Uhmm they have income but they don't pay income tax? Can show me how? I also want
    I never told you what they do for a living .....

    To clarify, I meant ...... declare and pay tax on the income revenue they receive on the apartment rented out..... paiseh.
    Last edited by Zenten; 13th March 2015 at 03:00 PM.
    Nikomi Canpen Zenten :eek:
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  15. #55
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Ultimately, who will stay to defend the country and when things get bad stay to ensure we don't close shop for good. While it is true we may need the mass to push up this economy, we need to give priority to those that have no where to go and will stay to their country. I am sure there is no different for other country in this respect.

  16. #56
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    I hear true blue Singaporeans are a rare breed and near extinction.


    No one is true blue Singaporean in Singapore except Stamford Raffles.

    We are all descendants of migrants from South China.
    Last edited by Sion; 13th March 2015 at 09:03 PM.

  17. #57
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post


    No one is true blue Singaporean in Singapore except Stamford Raffles.

    We are all descendants of migrants from South China.
    Aiyo now you talking Blue Blood now that is complicating things further heheheheh
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  18. #58
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreq View Post
    Japan is a country I've always admired. They've kept their country very much "closed" to foreigners. But look at their highly advanced technology in the various fields such as automobile, robotics, engineering, and medical which easily trounce Singapore. They were largely developed by their own talent pool of Japanese people. Look at their athletes who have won Olympics medals. Do we hear foreign sounding names? I can't remember of an instance. Look at their rich culture and well-mannered behavior and tip top service quality. It's a mark of respect we have all come to know.
    I think Chad Rowan is not a Japanese sounding name.


  19. #59
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    I think Chad Rowan is not a Japanese sounding name.


    Could have been Mrs Rowan .....look at the size of those moobs.....
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  20. #60
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Growth in Singapore since Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post
    Could have been Mrs Rowan .....look at the size of those moobs.....
    If you like to see big sized Japanese women here is another one: Saleva'a Fuauli Atisano'e (A not so Japanese sounding name either)


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