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Thread: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

  1. #21
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    We know little about their real capabilities and performance. In my professional career I have experienced fresh grads who were really good. Within short time they proved to be worth every EUR of their salary (which increases soon). The opposite is also true, nevertheless.
    Judging from the posts in this thread there are many red eyes among us for a young Singapore graduate who can command $4,000.

    This is epidemic of the mentality of an older work force. They just can't deal with with a younger, better, cleverer, bolder and more progressive generation.

    It's time for them to make way for the $4,000 generation so that Singapore can move forward faster and better if we want to be on top of First World league.


  2. #22
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    With so much reports from our media about SMU commands higher staring pay and not students able to contribute something, naturally they are trying to match expectations of the reports.

    $4k may not be most fresh grads pay but $3k are always possible. We should then consider how about those that were getting less than $1 and are unlikely to move out of that any sooner? What can we do for them?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    We should then consider how about those that were getting less than $1 and are unlikely to move out of that any sooner? What can we do for them?
    Free or very cheap (read subsidized) community college/technical school education open to all strata of society. A fair shot to all citizens of the country. This way no one starts out saddled with debt liao. This is also for the one who desires a complete education but isn't necessarily trying to be crazy ambitious in life. Leave the standard colleges and universities to the heavy hitter students.

    What I see here on my side of the world in America, and keep in mind I am using a big brush to paint this, is a bunch of spoiled lazy kids who just want to party like it is 1999. They have been led to believe college is their meal ticket for life. If they can make it through they graduate with a ton of debt that takes them (or in many cases parents) 20 years to pay off (if indeed they do not default) and with the economy the way it has been since the 21st century has started (and even before then really) they don't make flip. Global. Competition. Lot's of sleepwalkers in the world today I think.

    I would hire a fresh grad who carried a gentleman's C average while working a PT job to get their selves through school before an A+ prodigy who had a full ride and didn't have to work. And then there are the superstars. Rarer than hen's teeth!

    If you will clean toilets for $10 bucks an hour then that is what they will pay you. Some folks this is all they can do. That is fine. They are just as important too IMO. If only more folks in the world thought like I did about this than maybe it'd be a better place I don't know.

    I know I am on a high horse here but it just seems to make perfect sense to me.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 11th March 2015 at 09:56 AM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  4. #24

    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    Actually nothing wrong with higher expectation, as long as they meet the requirement for a $4k or more/month position, why not?

    MSM, stirrer lah....

  5. #25

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    Nothing wrong with expecting higher pay. But it should be aligned to work experience and not just qualifications.

    I think this is a good issue brought up to bring some people back down to earth

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    http://business.asiaone.com/career/n...ing-pay-stjobs

    "Yu Lan, 26, a student from Nanyang Technological University, is one of them who thinks that her starting salary should be at least $4,000 as she has "strong analysis skills and trouble-shooting ability." - there is a slight hiccup... zero experience.
    Strawberry generation......

  7. #27

    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    Actually, with all due respect, I am surprised some put down fresh graduates who expect to be paid $4k a month. Is $4k really a lot in today's context? I don't think so.

    (In fact, I won't even consider a household combined salary of $10k to be in the middle income group. It's really lower income. Perhaps in the mid to higher end of the lower income group.)

    There is nothing wrong to openly state your pay expectation. In fact, that is usually required when you look for a job. You are supposed to state your "expected salary".

    Why do I think $4k is all right? Well, I do know for sure that back in the year 2000, a fresh Science grad with no Honours was paid like $2,200. With Honours, about $2,400-2,600. And Science grads are nowhere the top grads in NUS/NTU. More popular courses like engineering will be paying like $2,800. Civil engineers I believe were paid $3k starting salary. If you have good Honours, studied one more year at NIE (while still being paid!) and graduated from there, your salary would be in excess of $3k. I think it was easily about $3,200.

    Let me emphasise that was in the year 2000. 15 years ago!

    Just to put things in perspective, a 5-room HDB flat in a good location could be bought for $200+k back then.

    Today, if you want a 5-room flat in a good location, you can only get it on the resale market. And we are looking at $600k onwards. Now, 15 years later, is it really too much for a grad to ask for $4k as starting pay? I don't think so. Comparing the numbers, even if they did earn that amount, they would be struggling to pay off their 5-room flat home loan.

    If you notice, the way the government is handling the situation is not so much solving the mismatch between low graduates' pay and the high cost of living here. Instead, they are suggesting the young grads to set their expectations right. A large number will no longer be able to afford 5-room flats, which explains why BTO flats these days are capped to 4-room only. So the government is saying, Well, own a 4-room, if not then consider a 3-room flat. And instead of paying off your mortgage within 15-20 years which was really common in the past, they are advising taking a 30-year loan.

    It's a tricky situation. I don't envy the younger generation of today in Singapore. That's why many are beginning to realise getting that degree means little these days. They spend about 16 years of their student life slogging for a basic degree only to realise the harsh reality awaiting them.

    If you ask me, the source of this issue comes from the government who has found a way to import foreigners to come here to work and who expect to be paid less than Singaporeans. These grads may even be lower skilled but some employers don't mind it in order to cut costs.

    You can't say what the government is doing is necessarily bad. It's good for the economy. But it's very bad when you view it at a micro level of the graduate's perspective.

    So can we blame the Singaporeans for asking too much? Of course not. These Singaporeans wish to stay here for long and set up families. For goodness sake, Singapore is where they were born in and it's their country! The guys also faithfully serve their NS and all other duties as NSmen for 10 years or more. If you pay too little, how do you expect them to get by comfortably? How do you measure success?

    Put yourself in the shoes of these students. They study hard and get reasonably good grades at school but after graduation, they are told not to expect a $4k salary cos there are always foreigners who can be given PR (or even citizenship!) and will accept lesser pay. But remember, these foreigners often come from abject conditions in their home countries and they simply want an escape route. Some may also go back to their countries once they have earned enough. But that does not mean you allow your own citizens to lower their salary expectations!

    The end result of such an act, of course, is beneficial to business owners who can operate at lower costs. In turn, the SG government stands to gain from such a deal -- When businesses here do well, the economy improves, government is happy. But on the other end of the scale, the locals suffer. I can understand what the government is doing but there are major repercussions.

    Compare us to other developed countries like Australia and Japan, the situation is totally opposite. It is very difficult for you to find jobs there as foreigners as their governments "take care" of their citizens first. Countless times, I have heard of stories from friends or friends' friends where they have excellent academic qualifications but they failed to land the job in Australia, simply because there are sufficient Australians (who may be lower skilled than my friends!) filling up the jobs there.

    On the other hand, a friend of mine who runs a small business here lamented that the candidates from the developing countries around our region boldly and unashamedly had stated they could do this and that in their CVs, but when interviewed and tested, they couldn't perform as expected. There are many such workers going around as, like I said, some employers don't mind getting them as long as they pay them much less than our very own local grads.

    Coming back to the topic....Now you do think to ask for $4k as starting salary is too much? I am assuming their skills and knowledge are not any worse off compared to past graduates.

  8. #28
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    With our national paper reporting SMU students getting $3k starting pay. One would have accepted this is the high of our national standard other than doing your own research.

    Now at $4k, surely it is a high compared to what was reported. Of course is $4k enough, that is another story since majority didn't even get close to that

  9. #29

    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    $3k starting pay, supposedly good uni like SMU. Year: 2015. Country: Singapore. Seriously, I say "Houston, we have a problem!"

    Shocking news really. Wasn't expecting that.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreq View Post
    $3k starting pay, supposedly good uni like SMU. Year: 2015. Country: Singapore. Seriously, I say "Houston, we have a problem!"

    Shocking news really. Wasn't expecting that.
    There's a lot of land near Houston come on if it gets to crazy!

    I know...if it were only that simple.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 11th March 2015 at 09:52 AM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  11. #31

    Default Re: The Young Singaporean Dream... or expectation

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    There's a lot of land near Houston come on if it gets to crazy!

    I know...if it were only that simple.
    Haha....I was referring to the famous quote from Apollo13.

    Wish there were more land over here like in the US.

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