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Thread: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

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    Default ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Yvonne Lim
    Voices editor
    TODAY Newspaper, 06 Sept 2005

    WERE readers' suggestions taken seriously, bridal salons must have had a nervous couple of weeks.

    First, there was a reader's call for couples to do away with all that marriage nonsense and settle for living together uncomplicated, no strings attached.

    Then, others asked: Why not let people keep as many spouses as they want?

    Cohabitation or polygamy is either the answer to rising divorce rates and unfaithful spouses? Readers' letters that poured in ever since this paper ran the tale of Mrs Tan and her cheating husband ("Stay away from my husband, you hear!", Aug 19), were a remarkable reflection of Singaporeans' attitudes toward the institution of marriage.

    They ranged from the wholly disillusioned and bitter to the practical "realists" and the moralists and idealists.

    The debate began as a who's-to-blame game, with some like Valerie Cheong Soke Yan castigating letter-writer Mrs Lam who implied that if a wife couldn't hold on to her man well, it was her fault.

    Cheong responded: "I find it extremely shocking that the woman should shoulder complete blame if her husband philanders. Also, the very idea of a woman submitting to her man's every need makes me shake my head in disgust."

    An interesting perspective was offered by T M Tan, who said: "I know a woman who has been cheating on her husband for a year. Her husband treats her with kid-gloves, takes care of her every material need, but unfortunately, he's a doormat and, erm, an unskilled lover. Now I wonder, would he, like Mrs Lam, blame himself? More likely, he would bay for blood cut off her credit cards, change the lock and send her back to her parents in disgrace."

    But the real fireworks started when reader Wilson Wong suggested (Aug 23) that marriage be replaced with a cohabitation contract, because straying is in man's very nature and marriage does nothing for men, only for women.

    In a blatantly sarcastic dig at this, Venee Rift proposed a radical "beehive" model of society, in which the queen and female bees matter and the males are expendable.

    "On the same terms that women should no longer expect men to maintain a marriage, men should also no longer be required to care for their offspring nor, in return, should they request that their children provide for them when they are old.

    "Under a cohabitation contract, the male should not be expected to care for the female he fertilises. Society instead should enable the women to care for herself The cohabitation contract should endow the woman with the right to "put away" her husband if she no longer needs him, and provide her with a maid and nanny to enable her to fulfil her role as a working mother. Single women should be allowed to own houses upon maturity (21 years of age) and artificial insemination for single women should be legalised."

    Seetha Sharma said: "Let's abolish marriage and replace it with cohabitation contracts. Then we don't have to put up with your families and do your washing and cooking. Most importantly, we won't have to bear your children.

    "I wonder why Mr Wong's friends don't want to leave their marriages, if there is "nothing to recommend marriage to a man" The truth is that men gain a lot from marriage a free cook, maid, child bearer, sex partner and, in many cases, extra cash as most women work nowadays. Why would a man walk away from all this?"

    Tan Chor Hoong saluted Wong for "putting the issue squarely on the table, because whether we decide to talk about it or not, the problem of straying spouses is prevalent". She added: "Recently, I asked a male friend, a habitual womaniser: 'Would you forgive and forget if your wife has a boyfriend ?' His immediate reaction was: 'I see no reason why she'd do that I am able to satisfy her needs in every way.'

    "He was visibly perturbed, hemming and hawing, red-faced ... This reveals a few things. Firstly, he had never given that issue any thought before. Secondly, he was embarrassed by even the thought of it. And finally, it was clear he was not going to grant a 'forgive-and-forget' blank check!"

    Michael Yap, however, was all for Wong's idea, arguing: "It is not strange that girls cheat on their husbands too. Loyalty is no longer the key to marriage Humans would resort to other means that revives the spark. Particularly if the woman goes out of shape (after giving birth) or is the spoilt-brat kind that likes to nag."

    Yong Teck Meng spoke up for his men friends who stayed true to their families, despite temptations faced on business trips. "Given a second chance, they would all marry the same person again. So you see Mr Wong, your group of friends is not representative of all men," he added.

    "For many people, sex is not just physical. If sex is all about doing it with the winners of beauty pageants, then there should be no couples that can stay together till old age. You mentioned that the shape of a woman changes after childbirth, but surely you are not Adonis all your life?

    "Men (or women) who stray are simply people who forget that they have given their word to another person, to love her for good or for worse, in illness or in health, for richer or poorer, till death do them part. Temptations and problems will always be there in any marriage, or for that matter, any relationship. Do not blame nature for acts that are simply irresponsibility and immaturity at work," Yong concluded.

    The same phrases respecting sacred vows, making compromises, that it takes "two hands to clap", that marriage is a choice cropped up in the many letters from readers who believed firmly in the old-fashioned ideals of marriage, and that a promise is forever.

    On those same lines, some reacted with horror to Lim Thiam Poh's suggestion to "Stem divorce with polygamy" (Sept 2), which argued for accommodating men's "straying" tendencies in the multiple-spouse family unit.

    But predictably, also, several readers retorted that if it were made legal for all men, then all women should likewise enjoy the freedom to marry multiple husbands. Others including Muslim wife Haslinda Shamsudin (Sept 5) pointed out that polygamy did not solve the problem of egos, jealousies, emotions and divided attention.

    As Michael Loh Yik Ming asserted, the main challenge to marriage today isn't about philandering genes or how many spouses one could have but the modern notion of equality. "How can a couple survive to their golden years together when they are constantly at loggerheads as to who is more correct in family decisions?"

    When all is said and done, one real concern that arose out of the whole debate still remains unanswered: If and when things go wrong, do men walk away from the marriage with a raw deal, no thanks to local laws that dictate the paying of maintenance and the splitting of matrimonial property?

    Wong Hoong Hooi ("Marriage? Laws are a raw deal for men", Aug 26) and Jimmy Ho Kwok Koong ("Women win, men lose", Aug 30) made a convincing case for this, which prompted Y L Chan to urge for a review of the laws, "otherwise, the judges' hands are tied".

  2. #2
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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Without marriage, I'd be out of a job...

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    I don't know if you remember reading this a few years ago, but some chap wrote about legalising polygamy for everyone... That was quite a lark.

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    OOiii! Let's all be french!

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    I think many couples took their marriage for granted...forgetting their vows....resulting in heartaches and giving excuses to justify their wrong actions.

    My advice is:

    Enjoy your singlehood...if not married.

    Love your spouse as you would love yourself if you are married.

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Why don't you give it a rest already. Although you put up the pretence of it, you are obviously not interested in debating this to any serious degree, and the posts are getting boring as a result.

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    ok ok ..simple
    those who want to get married, get married.
    those who want to remain single, dont get married


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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Wah, so everything can have a value. Imagine your parents are contracted to each other. When they give birth to you, you are automatically contracted to take care and provide for them every month with at least $500 each, not doing so will result in you being legally and lawfully sued by them. Wah, think about it, your parents can sue u just because you cannot provide for them, not that you do not want to.


    So there is a value to everything. The question is: How much are you worth? You think by having a Singapore Citizenship makes you worth a lot? Wake up Singaporeans.

  9. #9

    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    what i am trying is expose the article to a crowd of people, perhaps some which may have yet came across and hence miss it altogether.

    whether i support it, condone it or make anything out of it is not the point. i just care to share this what i consider to be an usually hush hush but nonetheless controverisal social issue. having different public share their viewpoints might help shred insights to again, some.

    but if it bothers anyone (AHEM), my stand is simply talking abt it we cant change any REAL part of it. some might find it interesting, some might find it well thats all to it (AHEM). and theres always people who thinks better, theres always people who thinks worse and theres always people who think WELL, otherwise (AHEM again).

    VARIETY IS A FACT, not a choice. but DECISION IS. hope this post help those where insights needed.

    who knows, maybe there is AN AGENDA to why i posted such topics...hmm.


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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Personally, I am a little put off by marriages although I do wish to have a companion for the rest of my life.

    Can anyone please feed me with some propaganda that weddings and married life are not full of family politics, internal strifle, conspiracies and stuff like dat?
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Personally, I am a little put off by marriages although I do wish to have a companion for the rest of my life.

    Can anyone please feed me with some propaganda that weddings and married life are not full of family politics, internal strifle, conspiracies and stuff like dat?
    There are many many happily married couples who stay happily married for life. That is not to say that they are always in bliss, life will always have its ups and downs, but having a committed partner helps you stay the course much better. The difference between "co-habitation" and marriage? Commitment and security.

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Ok.... That's one.

    I think I'll need more convinction before I stay a bachelor or shave my head to be a monk.

    Apologies. I think it must be all those silly noisy Channel 8 chinese drama and personal experience of seeing couples once happily ROMed and now facing a low note that's scaring me off in seriously seeking a companion.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    what i am trying is expose the article to a crowd of people, perhaps some which may have yet came across and hence miss it altogether.

    whether i support it, condone it or make anything out of it is not the point. i just care to share this what i consider to be an usually hush hush but nonetheless controverisal social issue. having different public share their viewpoints might help shred insights to again, some.

    but if it bothers anyone (AHEM), my stand is simply talking abt it we cant change any REAL part of it. some might find it interesting, some might find it well thats all to it (AHEM). and theres always people who thinks better, theres always people who thinks worse and theres always people who think WELL, otherwise (AHEM again).

    VARIETY IS A FACT, not a choice. but DECISION IS. hope this post help those where insights needed.

    who knows, maybe there is AN AGENDA to why i posted such topics...hmm.

    I don't really care if you have an agenda or not. The point is that you are only presenting one side of the story, and in the process making a mockery of the many people who are committed to making their marriages work despite obstacles that are inherent when 2 people commit their lives to each other. The basic unit of society is the family unit. Children who grow up in a secure 2-parent household do much better than those from single-parent or from 'revolving' parent households. This is a simple indisputable fact. What you are advocating, if taken to any serious degree by any impressionable folk here, which include many young teen-agers at the cusp of making life decisions, is wholly IRRESPONSIBLE and I take great exception to it.

    My question to you. Did you not benefit from a secure home environment provided for by 2 committed individuals (your parents), who decided to sacrifice part of their individuality to be part of a greater partnership, one that could stay the course of 'life' better than any single individual could? If so, why do you seek to deny the same benefit to future generations by promulgating such a ludicrous position?

  14. #14

    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    dear friend

    at first i nearly wanted to reply you your questions.

    then i am smart enough to realize i am being s*ckered into a drawn out battle with no end in sight.

    so i decided to concede by saying: man (or woman, i apologise here i really dont know who you are), by your words, YOU WIN.

    just like my posts of bad services 'so related', i just satisfied to say that my posts which i admit are done with a tat of jest are meant to do precisely what you say they do: shine the light on one side of the story. whether what that side says anything useful or have any sort effect on the readers, I dont know and cant know either ways.

    whether mockery, commitment, obstacles, inherent, basic unit, secure 2-parent household, single-parent or 'revolving' parent households, indisputable, advocating, degree, impressionable, cusp, life decisions, wholly IRRESPONSIBLE, great exception, secure home environment, sacrifice, individuality, greater partnership, future generations, promulgating AND ludicrous...the terms you used in 2 brief paragraphs, meant anything, i offer my apologies..I dont understand and dont want to.

    thank you for following my posts though. if you like them, hey join the fan club. if you dont like them, then stay out of them. my conscience is clean. simple english. thks and cheers
    Last edited by itisnottheendorg; 7th September 2005 at 03:31 PM.

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    ...Then, others asked: Why not let people keep as many spouses as they want?
    I can see good sales of "Tiger Pills".

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    HDB will need you to get marriage.
    Lawyer will need you to get divorce.

    (please no argument on this)

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    dear friend

    at first i nearly wanted to reply you your questions.

    then i am smart enough to realize i am being s*ckered into a drawn out battle with no end in sight.
    I see. In your first post, you suggested that you wanted to raise a controversial issue, but ducked out of sight at the first sight of a challenge. I wonder how robust those positions you raise are, if it can't be defended in a minor forum like Kopitiam.


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    so i decided to concede by saying: man (or woman, i apologise here i really dont know who you are), by your words, YOU WIN.
    If you say so. I'm not claiming victory.


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    just like my posts of bad services 'so related', i just satisfied to say that my posts which i admit are done with a tat of jest are meant to do precisely what you say they do: shine the light on one side of the story.
    You need to post 4-5 different threads to do that? In 2 threads you prefaced by implying you were fully aligned with the quoted authors position, I think you intended to do more than just "shine light" on an alternate viewpoint. I'll say it again, "promulgating a ludicrous position".


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    whether what that side says anything useful or have any sort effect on the readers, I dont know and cant know either ways.
    Excellent defence, claiming ignorance. If you don't know, don't do! How do you spell IRRESPONSIBLE?


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    meant anything, i offer my apologies..I dont understand and dont want to.
    Your choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    thank you for following my posts though. if you like them, hey join the fan club. if you dont like them, then stay out of them.
    Hey, why should I? This is a public forum, if I see a post I don't like, I will respond. You are free to lock this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    my conscience is clean. simple english. thks and cheers
    Glad you can sleep soundly at night.

    At the end of the day, you tried to take apart the institution of marriage based on 2 flimsy points: 1) That some spouses stray, 2) Divorce laws are slanted against men. That is the totality of substance you had in 4 looonnngggggg posts. Balanced against? Security? 2-parent families? Child rearing? Longevity and health? Love and Commitment? Oh right, you didn't really want to know about those things, did you?

    Cheers to you too.

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    Default Re: ..."Who needs marriage?".........DUH.

    Quote Originally Posted by soma
    HDB will need you to get marriage.
    Lawyer will need you to get divorce.

    (please no argument on this)
    And some photogs need you to do the romantic wedding pics.

    What about Trial Marriage - try it out first. If it works out fine, after 2 to 5 years, then sign on the dotted line. Can rent a flat first. And no need for lawyer after 2 to 5 years.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

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